Being harrassed by a reptile rescue

I was on good terms with this person who runs a reptile rescue in the southern part of the US, until the moment came that I unjoined his yahoo group.
Since then he has sent very nasty emails, I have been cordial and he had sent me a box to ship a native US lizard to him. I was going to, but could not guarantee that it get there in the time he wanted. WI to his state was at least 2 days via express. I didn't have 50 dollars to send it via UPS or Fed Ex, I got quotes.
He requested that I send the box to a person who needed it to ship some reptiles to him, the box needed to go to UT.
I did that, (I had a friend do it since I was going some where for the day). BUT I have the receipt, and can have his testimony. I did get a delivery confirmation and sent him an email with the tracking number.
He has now sent me a paypal invoice requesting payment for some insects he sent for the lizard to eat.
When I was waiting for the box, and for the temps in his state to go down, so the lizard would remain healthy.

All was fine until I unjoined from his group. Now he won't leave me alone.
I have taken steps to protect myself.. but this is ridiculous.
He states the cost of shipping the insects was 15.00 and would credit me 5 for shipping his container to UT. Thus owing him 9.
I had a post office to post office label and had to tape Express tape/labels all over the priority box he sent me. He was adamant that the box and its contents remain absolutely the same.
In order to keep it in that state. I shipped the box in a flat shipping rate box which cost 14.35. So technically I owe him 65 cents.
I do not have his mailing address as I took it off the box in order to ship it to him with the Post office to post office label.

So what should I do? I have contacted his email provider and he is a group owner at yahoo, due to his nasty emails he has violated their TOS.
I have been cordial and have kept all of my emails where he was nice, we spoke on the phone one night for 45 minutes talking about things.
Once I left the group he went nasty.

When part of the group he posted on there, some very nasty things were said about a lady in NY, he even called the NY fish and wild life on her saying she had taken 6 particular lizards and called her a poacher.
WHile the one I have is not in any way endangered, I really don't need this.

So what do you reccommend that I do?:confused:
OMG really he needs a life.

Carol

Hi,

**personal opinion only ahead**

Ask him for his address to send a personal cheque for $10 so you can prove it was cashed and when.

Send the cheque registered delivery so that he has to sign he recieved it. Put a letter inside saying that you consider this to be the end of any dealings and direct contact between you and that, if he persists in harrasing you via email, IM or forum posts you will report him to both the authorities and his ISP.

Once there is no financial transaction between the two of you it should be a lot easier to determine if any further contact counts as harrasment. Er I think.

Obviously I am no lawyer or anything but in your shoes I'd happily pay $20 or so to get the guy out of my life.

But keep everything in writing if possible in case you need it later.


dr del

He has sent me another email saying that the 14 plus dollars I spent to ship his box, which had his shipping items in it, a box for the reptile, an ice pack, packing peanuts, and other items...
He wanted it shipped express, it was a priority box. The post master himself put quite a lot of express tape on the box to hide the priority printing.
If I had removed all of the tape to make it a priority box again in order to ship it to the person he wanted me to ship it to... there would not be much left of it.
I put it in a flat rate shipping box, and that cost 14 plus dollars.
He gave me insects to feed the lizard, gratis. But the moment I left the group he wants the insects paid for.
And won't consider the 14 plus dollars I paid for shipping HIS container... payment, only part of it.
He now says he will have this go to collections if need be.. for apparently 9 dollars..
I never placed an order with him. I never asked him to send me the insects.
I have contacted his email provider, and have an abuse complaint in.
I am calling them tomorrow. AND will contact the local news stations in his area if he continues this.

OMG..
this has gone so far.

I'd put him on ignore and forget all about him.

Do NOT send a personal check. If you feel you must make payment for something you never ordered, us a US POSTAL money order. Those can be traced if necessary and the guy won't have more of your personal information.

You could also try fauna, though with the way things are nowadays you may not get much satisfaction there.

Wait let me get this straight.

He sent you the box that he wanted the reptile shipped in and then you payed for the shipping of the reptile to him?

I guess I am a little confused. This guy sounds ridiculous though. Its just a yahoo group D: Is he really that desperate for members?

I originally contacted him in order to send him the reptile. I purchased it, and felt due to my location and its special dietary needs that it should go to a rescue, which he operates.
He also has a yahoo group, he invited me to. I found it rather uninformative. And while I had the reptile all packaged up and ready to send. He insisted that the reptile be shipped in 24 hours guaranteed. The USPS could not do that. The species is allowed to be shipped via USPS.
While waiting to ship it, due to weekend and temps in his area. He sent me a specific type of insect to feed it.
(I don't want to go in to particulars at this point so I am trying to keep any names, and any specific references to types of animals out of the replies at this time.)
Since I could not get it to him with out the fee costing me quite a lot of money... I felt I could do a lot more research and with his help care for the lizard myself. I have previous experience with them in my youth but not keeping them in an environment so alien as the midwest in winter.
I unjoined his group, and from that point on, he has gotten extremely nasty using 4 and 5 letter expletive words about me and to me.
With me repeatedly asking him to stop, and he not doing so I have contacted his email provider and do have an abuse complaint in.
IF he does continue and does not at least meet me half way in my request for an address... then I will consider the matter closed and if he continues to email OR if he calls me. I will contact the media in his area, and the police. I will see if I can have his email closed and his group closed down for violating the TOS.
I considered what ever debt he thinks I owe him for shipping me w/c insects via priority mail, to be done when I mailed his box, which I could not use, to some one else who had contacted his rescue wanting to send him more reptiles/lizards.

does that clear things up??

i wouldnt send him crap and contact paypal before they just try to take $ from your account.

The funny part is they can't i don't have an active paypal account and that card has expired, it was a bank visa debit card and every few years they expire and give you a new one... we had an issue with a company that we contacted for a free credit report...
We had to give a card number and within 30 days you had to request them to remove you..
I did, they continued to try to bill me for a "membership". our credit union said in order to stop it entirely they would give us new cards with new numbers...
hehehe, and he I don't have paypal set up with the new card, so techincally I don't have a paypal account.
I just wish I had kept his address, if there was one on the box.
And another thing.. heheheh, he is on a dating site... and says he is a member of some conservation groups.. I will contact them if need be as well.
I don't like to be mean, or find ways to have to protect myself... but I can, and will and can get nasty, in a nice way.
I don't think he wants his local t.v news caster showing up on his door step asking him why he is harrassing a person over 9 dollars.
And he does provide a service to some, the same way BP.net does, (albiet with out the soap box) to people he allows onto his group, and education.
I would not want his email provider to have to remove him, but will if he continues.
I have kept his emails where he calls me some rather NASTY words.
He took offense at the words, "care tips".
really... wow.
I have tried to be nice.. but WILL defend myself.

Yeesh, its late and I have to get up early.

Horned lizards don't generally make good pets.

Your info is.....well, let's say it's not exactly clear and concise but I'd still tell this guy to pound sand.

Think twice before turning him in to anyone if he's ONLY irked you. If you have serious issues, which at this point I'd have to question, then go ahead and do what you can.

I have asked him in at least two to three emails to please leave me alone.
he has gotten nastier and nastier each time.
And only when I unjoined his group.
I have been reading through them over and over.
I am on a specific group and now have contacts with other keepers in the midwest, and a specific husbandry guide for my specific type of lizard. And have a supplier of the specific type of insect my lizard needs.
I hope this ends peacefully.
But reading the posts on his group.. how he called the NY DNR or some other authority group and accused a person of poaching, because they removed a certain number of a non endangered lizards from a state, and was keeping them, not reselling them or anything...
He is vindictive, and I almost expect a call from my DNR.
And PLEASE... I am trying to keep this non species specific. I am asking help to deal with a man who called me a female dog in an email, and used the word poop.
When i was nice and cordial, he got nasty. And is now threatening me with collections for 9 dollars.
Thank you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Montessa Python

I have asked him in at least two to three emails to please leave me alone.
he has gotten nastier and nastier each time.
And only when I unjoined his group.
I have been reading through them over and over.
I am on a specific group and now have contacts with other keepers in the midwest, and a specific husbandry guide for my specific type of lizard. And have a supplier of the specific type of insect my lizard needs.
I hope this ends peacefully.
But reading the posts on his group.. how he called the NY DNR or some other authority group and accused a person of poaching, because they removed a certain number of a non endangered lizards from a state, and was keeping them, not reselling them or anything...
He is vindictive, and I almost expect a call from my DNR.
And PLEASE... I am trying to keep this non species specific. I am asking help to deal with a man who called me a female dog in an email, and used the word poop.
When i was nice and cordial, he got nasty. And is now threatening me with collections for 9 dollars.
Thank you.

---

And help you've received.

Thicken your skin and move on. Names on the internet are not worth getting bent over over.

block his email? stop responding to him?

honestly.. this is over 9 dollars (or 46 cents or something). send him one last email saying you no longer wish to have any contact with him and block him.

I don't understand why you're having such a difficult time with this personally. I understand its upsetting to have someone say nasty things to you but on the internet, anyone can be a bully.

Personally, i'd get a thicker skin about the situation. I know i've been called much worse and im still here ( ;) ).

Are you worried about him coming to your house or attacking you in some other way?

It is when he is now threatening to have collections sent on me...
I have asked him to stop, now its gotten ... over the top.
I will stop, this has been going on since last week.
If he won't leave me alone... then I will make him leave me alone.
I normally don't do this..
but ... I don't need some one threatening me.
He has my phone number and address so I just want to be prepared.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cinderbird

block his email? stop responding to him?

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I can't block him, I have hotmail. I did stop responding to him. but when i get three emails from him two of which are from paypal...
I need to deal with it.
I did ask him to stop repeatedly, and in my last one, I asked him to stop AGAIN. and only send one more with his address.
I won't pay through paypal. I like what Dr. Del said.
Do it via check or USPS money order and registered mail.
BUT really I don't owe him anything. He sent the insects on his own, and is only now harrassing me since I unjoined his group.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Montessa Python

I can't block him, I have hotmail. I did stop responding to him. but when i get three emails from him two of which are from paypal...
I need to deal with it.
I did ask him to stop repeatedly, and in my last one, I asked him to stop AGAIN. and only send one more with his address.
I won't pay through paypal. I like what Dr. Del said.
Do it via check or USPS money order and registered mail.
BUT really I don't owe him anything. He sent the insects on his own, and is only now harrassing me since I unjoined his group.

---

You can mark his email as SPAM and you won't see them anymore.

Do that and move on with your life.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Montessa Python

I can't block him, I have hotmail. I did stop responding to him. but when i get three emails from him two of which are from paypal...
I need to deal with it.
I did ask him to stop repeatedly, and in my last one, I asked him to stop AGAIN. and only send one more with his address.
I won't pay through paypal. I like what Dr. Del said.
Do it via check or USPS money order and registered mail.
BUT really I don't owe him anything. He sent the insects on his own, and is only now harrassing me since I unjoined his group.

---

get a gmail account (free), and forward your email from the hotmail account to the gmail account, you can block people from gmail.

if you didnt agree to pay him for anything, i still dont see where the problem is. if you see email in your inbox from him just move it to a folder where you wont see it but still have it encase you need it.

Sounds like a plan.
TY all and night..
I have to at least try to sleep...
I just don't usually have some one go from nice and helpful to foul mouthed brigand in such a short period of time.
I usually have to do something quite horrid for a long period of time for that, not just unjoin their group.
(that last part was a vague attempt at humor).

'collections' is pretty vague. I think it's probably BS. Tell him you're blocking him, that you consider your debts paid for having shipped the box, and that this is the end of it whether he likes it or not.

Tell him he's free to pursue 'collections', but won't be getting a penny from you, and that you have complete records of every e-mail he's sent you about the entire thing, which you will keep on hand to submit to authorities if necessary.

Since you did not ask for the insects, and you did not agree to pay for the insects, you do not owe him anything for them. That's the law. Nothing he threatens matters in the face of that.

I'd go complain on Fauna BOI too, so others can steer clear of someone who's obviously a bad egg in the 'rescue' scene. (I have to wonder about anyone in a rescue who would behave this way). They will ask you to post the e-mails and correspondences, of course, to prove your claim. It's for the best.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Montessa Python

I have asked him in at least two to three emails to please leave me alone.
he has gotten nastier and nastier each time.
And only when I unjoined his group.
I have been reading through them over and over.
I am on a specific group and now have contacts with other keepers in the midwest, and a specific husbandry guide for my specific type of lizard. And have a supplier of the specific type of insect my lizard needs.
I hope this ends peacefully.
But reading the posts on his group.. how he called the NY DNR or some other authority group and accused a person of poaching, because they removed a certain number of a non endangered lizards from a state, and was keeping them, not reselling them or anything...
He is vindictive, and I almost expect a call from my DNR.
And PLEASE... I am trying to keep this non species specific. I am asking help to deal with a man who called me a female dog in an email, and used the word s**t.
When i was nice and cordial, he got nasty. And is now threatening me with collections for 9 dollars.
Thank you.

---

Ignore him ! Don't let him get to you it would cost him more money to send it to collections .

if u have his phone number(i think u said you do) u can look up and arnold schwarzenneger soundboard and bother him with it until he gets the idea. imagine:

arnold: "hello cutie pie"
"how are you?"
him: who is this?
arnold: "im detective john kimball"
"can i speak to the drug dealer of the house please?"
him: i dont do no drugs
arnold: "you lie!!"

you get the idea. my friends and i did this to another friend of ours and it was hilarious.

He is pretty cagey, he only has his cell phone listed. Even on his website for his rescue.
He is a member of some national organizations and did throw out a mention of how much better he is than I, because he presented something important at a symposium.
Which I thought was funny, he does not know who I am, or who I have worked for.
He acts like a jilted boyfriend. And it is funny as he is "looking for that some one special."
It makes wonder what an email like that would be to a person who turned him down after communicating online or after a date....
Thank you all for the great support. And great ideas.
I hope this is the last of it. I will keep you informed.
Carol

If you ignore him totally, do not respond to emails, do not respond to anything. If he does call, don't answer the phone, or hang up when you realize it is him WITHOUT responding no matter what he tries to say. When his emails arrive, mark them as spam. If he continuesusing other emails, mark those as spam.

Frankly if he wants to go to collections to collect his $10, let him. When and if a collection agency contacts you(It's not going to happen), ask them for the written bill of sale for the money you owe in writing. Then ignore it. No collection agency is going to take on a $10 fee, especially when he doesn't have a bill of sale or contract agreeing to pay that amount.

If you ignore him and don't respond AT ALL for about 2 weeks, generally it ends. If you argue back, or send a message saying Don't contact me, you'll just further the contact, because you responded.

And yeah, grow a thicker skin, because the stuff you mentioned isn't worth getting irked over. I've had 10 year olds call me worse in person, much less some dweeb over email. No one will do anything about that level of harrassment other than tell you to not respond, to block his email(mark it spam), and not answer the phone. Unless and until he actually sends a physical threat of bodily harm to you(not "I'll send the DNR on you!" but "I'll come down and hurt you") they pretty much won't do a thing.

Save yourself a lot of hassle and ignore the jerk. It's your choice to cut him out of your life, so do it.
*based on personal experiance recently of breaking off a freindship with a wacko guy who harrassed me unmercifully until I ignored him totally*

I dunno...I'm missing something here. You're getting bent out of shape over a Yahoo Groups Administrator who is threatening to turn you into a collections agency for $9?
You're claiming he's threatening you, yet you're not telling us how he's threatened you. Personally, I don't consider him telling you he's going to turn you into a collections agency over $9 a threat. I consider that showing you his total ignorance and stupidity for the whole situation.
Bottom line is this. The world is full of idiots, and unfortunately, the majority of those idiots waste their life on the internet trying to make other people's lives hell. As long as morons like this are allowed to affect people the way this moron's affecting you, they'll continue. You have several ways of avoiding this person's e-mail, including just not reading the things. You are subjecting yourself to this idiot by continuing to read his e-mails and leting him affect you, hence he's succeeding in what he wants to accomplish.
The solution is simple. Ignore his e-mails and move on. It doesn't get any easier than that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Montessa Python

He is pretty cagey, he only has his cell phone listed. Even on his website for his rescue.
He is a member of some national organizations and did throw out a mention of how much better he is than I, because he presented something important at a symposium.
Which I thought was funny, he does not know who I am, or who I have worked for.
He acts like a jilted boyfriend. And it is funny as he is "looking for that some one special."
It makes wonder what an email like that would be to a person who turned him down after communicating online or after a date....
Thank you all for the great support. And great ideas.
I hope this is the last of it. I will keep you informed.
Carol

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Ok this is what i would do.Go to www.faunaclassifieds.com, make a thread warning everyone of this clown.Next stop protecting him with the not wanting to show his info and what the lizard was.You are making it sound like you shipped him something illegal.Next find out if he needs to be licensed in his town for his rescue and if infact he is licensed or not.If he is not then report his behind.He is making your life nerve racking as its obvious so fire back and end it ;).If you dont want to fire back at him pm me his details and i will be your muscle and end it for you :D.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by joepythons

Ok this is what i would do.Go to www.faunaclassifieds.com, make a thread warning everyone of this clown.Next stop protecting him with the not wanting to show his info and what the lizard was.You are making it sound like you shipped him something illegal.Next find out if he needs to be licensed in his town for his rescue and if infact he is licensed or not.If he is not then report his behind.He is making your life nerve racking as its obvious so fire back and end it ;).If you dont want to fire back at him pm me his details and i will be your muscle and end it for you :D.

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I agree...

Send Him my way he wont make it back... LOL...

:D

1) You could just send him a box of dead bugs and tell him you are returning the merchandise...

2) Tell him you are turning over the amount he should owe you for the shipping of the box to collections...

3) Call Judge Judy...

Wow this was hard to follow, bottom line if you never agreed to pay him for anything then you dont owe him anything. If there is an agreement to reimburse him for the bugs then you owe him, but for 10 bucks it sounds like either a the guy is having really hard times and 10 dollars means the difference between eatting that night or not. If that is the case he has worse issues then 10 bucks can solve. Or he has nothing more exciting going on in his life then to harass someone. Go to the dating site and help him find a match maybe they will entertain him LOL

The reason I feel threatened is he actually went after a women in NY for picking up and taking home some specific type of US lizard. He called the fish and wildlife in NY, calling her a poacher.
I don't care about the 9, but the fact he will not leave me alone, made me feel threatened.
After this I will move his emails to a specific file and if after a certain amount of time, he does not stop, then I will do something more about it.

I also feel stupid for spending 14 dollars to reship his box to some one else. He was at first nice.. then it just went down hill.
I was not in any way involved with him. I was going to send the lizard I have to him, as he is a rescue. But with the shipping logisitics so badly out of wack, I felt I could care for her on my own.
It was after I left his yahoo group, that he went nasty.
Strange strange....
Again, thanks again all.

Carol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Montessa Python

It was after I left his yahoo group, that he went nasty.
Strange strange....

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Sounds like a control freak with low self-esteem to me. I guarantee in the days before chat rooms this guy was a D&D dungeon master...:rofl:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vypyrz

I guarantee in the days before chat rooms this guy was a D&D dungeon master...:rofl:

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Hey whats wrong with having an imagination, I enjoyed d&d in the day, and I consider myself a normal member of society.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by derrabe

Hey whats wrong with having an imagination, I enjoyed d&d in the day, and I consider myself a normal member of society.

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I'm not knocking everyone who played it. Alot of the people I used to be stationed with were in to it and the guys who were the Dungeon Masters took it way too serious. They would sit at work drawing stuff and talking in their elf language or whatever, and when ever one of their group would make them mad at work they would threaten to kick them out of the game, and these guys would back down from them. I never got into it but my roomate did. I was 20 and in Europe. There was no way I was going to spend the weekend with a bunch of guys, wearing a bathrobe and plastic sword, eating potato chips and drinking a case of Coke...:colbert:

Not all DMs take it to extreme weirdness. You just fell in with wackos.

To the OP, your choice. Do a bunch of stuff back at him, and get labeled as just as bad as he is, or ignore him and let him stew in his own nastieness. Unless you have some illegil lizards, the officials aren't going to do diddley squat. He hasn't threatened you, just called you a few names. Calm down, and ignore his junk.

If there WAS anything you could do, I'd be all for it. But from my own recent experiances, there isn't. I'm 90% sure I know who you're talking about, and he's probably got every duck in a row as far as his own operation. YahooGroups couldn't care less about how the groups are run, and will tell you to drop out from his group and to block his emails.

Collections for 9 dollars!!!!!


hahahahahahahahaaa Sorry that was the funniest thing of this entire post.


Not even worth the gas to go to someones door for 9 dollars.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

Not all DMs take it to extreme weirdness. You just fell in with wackos.

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Good point... I was in the Navy at the time...:rofl:

OP, if you want to play by his rules, post a profile on the same dating site he uses and on your profile put " (his name), You may want to contact your doctor about getting on Valtrex.":devilish:

OK...so he makes a phone call to the fish & game commission. If you've done nothing against the law, then you have nothing to worry about, right? I dunno, maybe it's just me, but it seems like you're way too nervous over someone who is grasping at straws. Now, if you ARE dealing in illegal reptile trading, then you probably do have something to worry about. I'm not saying you are, but your fear simply doesn't seem rational for someone who is bent on a $9 "bill". If he does call the F&G and makes a false statement or accusation, he can and will be held criminally responsible for his actions.
There's just too much fishy stuff here to be able to decipher what's really going on if you ask me.

And I am still a gamer, D&D, Gurps, star trek.. and all the others. LOL
I am ignoring him now, and yes he does have a rather long thread on BOI.
IF he continues..
Then well.. we shall see

Carol

How about outing the clown here? Not all of us visit fauna as much as we used to.

Well since he emailed me with his physical street address...
And I have spoken to the president of the society of preservation of Horned lizards, TX. He is now a former member (his own wishes)
He has a habit of doing this.
AND thanks to Rabernet, finding his thread on the FC BOI
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...hlight=Palermo

His name is Mike or Mick Palermo, and he runs a reptile rescue out of wichita falls tx. He has a website, and a yahoo group.
HE was nice and polite up until the moment I decided not to send him my Platyrhino horned lizard. and unjoined his yahoo group.

I can either do screen caps of the emails or copy/paste them if any want to see them.
I may not post on fauna, but want this to go away first.

Carol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Montessa Python

Well since he emailed me with his physical street address...
And I have spoken to the president of the society of preservation of Horned lizards, TX. He is now a former member (his own wishes)
He has a habit of doing this.
AND thanks to Rabernet, finding his thread on the FC BOI
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...hlight=Palermo

His name is Mike or Mick Palermo, and he runs a reptile rescue out of wichita falls tx. He has a website, and a yahoo group.
HE was nice and polite up until the moment I decided not to send him my Platyrhino horned lizard. and unjoined his yahoo group.

I can either do screen caps of the emails or copy/paste them if any want to see them.
I may not post on fauna, but want this to go away first.

Carol

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For some reason the link does not show up anything but some jibberish stuff :O.

Here you go . http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...t=mick+palermo

I think I'd like to meet this pri, er, mick person.

He sounds like loads of fun. Smart too.

AHAhahahAHAHAHahaHAHhAHahahahAHAHAHahahAHahah

Seriously though, I would like to meet him.

I wonder how many ants i need this week :phonecall :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Montessa Python

I was on good terms with this person who runs a reptile rescue in the southern part of the US, until the moment came that I unjoined his yahoo group.
Since then he has sent very nasty emails, I have been cordial and he had sent me a box to ship a native US lizard to him. I was going to, but could not guarantee that it get there in the time he wanted. WI to his state was at least 2 days via express. I didn't have 50 dollars to send it via UPS or Fed Ex, I got quotes.
He requested that I send the box to a person who needed it to ship some reptiles to him, the box needed to go to UT.
I did that, (I had a friend do it since I was going some where for the day). BUT I have the receipt, and can have his testimony. I did get a delivery confirmation and sent him an email with the tracking number.
He has now sent me a paypal invoice requesting payment for some insects he sent for the lizard to eat.
When I was waiting for the box, and for the temps in his state to go down, so the lizard would remain healthy.

All was fine until I unjoined from his group. Now he won't leave me alone.
I have taken steps to protect myself.. but this is ridiculous.
He states the cost of shipping the insects was 15.00 and would credit me 5 for shipping his container to UT. Thus owing him 9.
I had a post office to post office label and had to tape Express tape/labels all over the priority box he sent me. He was adamant that the box and its contents remain absolutely the same.
In order to keep it in that state. I shipped the box in a flat shipping rate box which cost 14.35. So technically I owe him 65 cents.
I do not have his mailing address as I took it off the box in order to ship it to him with the Post office to post office label.

So what should I do? I have contacted his email provider and he is a group owner at yahoo, due to his nasty emails he has violated their TOS.
I have been cordial and have kept all of my emails where he was nice, we spoke on the phone one night for 45 minutes talking about things.
Once I left the group he went nasty.

When part of the group he posted on there, some very nasty things were said about a lady in NY, he even called the NY fish and wild life on her saying she had taken 6 particular lizards and called her a poacher.
WHile the one I have is not in any way endangered, I really don't need this.

So what do you reccommend that I do?:confused:
OMG really he needs a life.

Carol

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Well, I was directed to this post where you smear me and intentionally misrepresent the facts. The fact is that you are a thief. You took on a creature that you had neither the expertise or the money to handle. If you can't afford to ship it, then how could you afford to provide ants?

What you did was take a shipment of ants for free from me, then did not pay, agreed to receive a rescue container and then not send the animal. That means, you owe me for the free ants you received. I didn't forget. Since finding this I will now renew my paypal invoice request for the amount you owe. It's a matter of principle.

I have rescued more than 100 horned lizards in the last 4 years, and I don't want anyone changing the way I do it. They come out alive when my instructions are followed. You were asked to ship either USPS express (which would have run approx $20), or you could have shipped UPS with shipyourreptiles or a similar service. I receive these animals for rescue from as far away as upstate NY, Florida and WA state. Don't tell me you couldn't ship overnight from MI. That is BS. You should have been prepared for shipping costs beforehand and you should have done your research beforehand. Typical of an impulse buyer!

You got along with me at first, because you smoozed me for info and a free shipment of ants! You made me waste my time with you, when I had other horned lizards around the country needing rescue, and you were holding up my rescue setup with your BS promises! They are dedicated containers which I only have a few of, and at that time I had about 4 in transit.

You took the husbandry info from my website, made promises to ship the animal, took a free order of feeders in the meantime (which I footed the cost of because I was expecting the animal be surrendered to rescue). You got what you wanted and then took off, and that makes you a thief in my opinion.

You claimed that you spent $15 on shipping the rescue container back to me and would subtract this from what you owed. No idiot would excuse such an expense for a box you could have sent back parcel post or first class! You are a real piece of work.

I spoke to you for 45 minutes because I was trying to save an animal. I posted "nasty" things on my yahoo group because the person, like you, was nasty. She poached and was illegally holding protected wildlife species. Apparently that means nothing to someone of your caliber though. I wouldn't expect someone like you to understand. I called NYS wildlife authorities on a poacher of a protected species. Bite me if you don't like it!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

**personal opinion only ahead**

Ask him for his address to send a personal cheque for $10 so you can prove it was cashed and when.

Send the cheque registered delivery so that he has to sign he recieved it. Put a letter inside saying that you consider this to be the end of any dealings and direct contact between you and that, if he persists in harrasing you via email, IM or forum posts you will report him to both the authorities and his ISP.

Once there is no financial transaction between the two of you it should be a lot easier to determine if any further contact counts as harrasment. Er I think.

Obviously I am no lawyer or anything but in your shoes I'd happily pay $20 or so to get the guy out of my life.

But keep everything in writing if possible in case you need it later.


dr del

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Well, you might be a doc, but you aren't a lawyer for sure. In fact I can continue to contact anyone that owes me money as long as a debt is outstanding.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PhrynosomaTexas

Well, you might be a doc, but you aren't a lawyer for sure. In fact I can continue to contact anyone that owes me money as long as a debt is outstanding.

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Getting smart with the mods is a great way to become part of this wonderful community. I applaud you and request that you continue so that I may entertain my eyes a while longer.

Shipping with the USPS is ILLEGAL and talk of ILLEGAL practices is another great way to get your foot in the door. Shipping with SYR is no longer (until further notice) which leaves.... Oh yes.. FedEx as your only alternative for your rEsCuE :D

Have a wonderful and sanctified day! :gj:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PhrynosomaTexas

Well, you might be a doc, but you aren't a lawyer for sure. In fact I can continue to contact anyone that owes me money as long as a debt is outstanding.

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If I send you $9 will you go back to Yahoo?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Montessa Python

I originally contacted him in order to send him the reptile. I purchased it, and felt due to my location and its special dietary needs that it should go to a rescue, which he operates.
He also has a yahoo group, he invited me to. I found it rather uninformative.

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And I would not trust someone who has zero experience with this animal to be judge of my experience...as someone who wrote a husbandry manual used by zoos in the US and Canada and who was an invited speaker at an international herpetology symposium about them. I have professionals contact me about the husbandry of these animals, so don't act as if you can judge what you know or don't know about a species I specialize in for a number of years.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Montessa Python

And while I had the reptile all packaged up and ready to send. He insisted that the reptile be shipped in 24 hours guaranteed. The USPS could not do that. The species is allowed to be shipped via USPS.

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I stipulated from the START that I only allow shipping by overnight. That is the only responsible practice. You act like that was a surprise to you being told it needed to be overnight. What a liar!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Montessa Python

While waiting to ship it, due to weekend and temps in his area. He sent me a specific type of insect to feed it. (I don't want to go in to particulars at this point so I am trying to keep any names, and any specific references to types of animals out of the replies at this time.)

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Of course you don't want to go into particulars. There is a reason you don't. That reason is that this is a wild collected horned lizard and the feeders I sent you (for it's use pending your shipping it to rescue)...cannot be found at petco or some other pet store! You being an impulsive buyer though, didn't even know this or research before you bought it. I can see why you don't want people on this forum to know that! You weren't trying to be civil to me by hiding facts. Just covering your own butt.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Montessa Python

Since I could not get it to him with out the fee costing me quite a lot of money... I felt I could do a lot more research and with his help care for the lizard myself. [emphasis mine]

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Apropos and famous foolish last words.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Montessa Python

I have previous experience with them in my youth but not keeping them in an environment so alien as the midwest in winter.

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Experience in your youth. Right, that's sufficient. I love how people say "I've been keeping them since I was 2 years old" as if that equates to some knowledge gaining real experience with a horned lizard. A species that zoos are afraid to keep!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Montessa Python

I unjoined his group, and from that point on, he has gotten extremely nasty using 4 and 5 letter expletive words about me and to me.

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Liar. About the only 4 letter word I used with you. LIAR. Oh and THIEF, which is 5 letters.

Actually, you cannot continue to contact someone if she has requested you to stop. At that point you have to resort to LEGAL means to retrieve your money. It's a law about stopping bill collectors from harrassing people.

If she holds the animal illegally, then report her to the appropriate authorities. Harrassing someone, no matter how many animals you have rescued, is no way to help the animals or educate people.

What kind of "special rescue" boxes are you using to ship in?

Hi,

I think it's still ok to ship lizards via SYR - the problem they have is only related to snakes. Or has this changed recently? - I honestly haven't been keeping abreast of it.

And, as long as they stay within the rules of the site, I have no problem with people disagreeing with me. :)


dr del

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PhrynosomaTexas

Well, you might be a doc, but you aren't a lawyer for sure. In fact I can continue to contact anyone that owes me money as long as a debt is outstanding.

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Mind if I ask you a question? Isn't running a rescue about helping the animals? How does pursuing an old debt of less than $20 help any animals? Don't you, as a rescue organization, have more important things to spend your time and energy on? :confused:

I'm quite sure you both have your own sides of the story...and pretty certain the truth lies somewhere in the middle, even if both sides are convinced they are infallible. But it's beyond me how this issue is worth so much hatred and hostility. The world is full of animals who would LOVE to have that passion directed at meeting their needs instead. :salute: