Newest hatchling. Not good.

Sometimes things just don't work out the way mother nature intended.

She looks good except for the one obvious omission.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...s/Trouser1.jpg
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...s/Trouser2.jpg


Oh well, it's been an interesting season, I'm hoping for better luck next year.

I was at a buddy's house a couple of weeks ago and he had a burm hatch out that looked like that, except it was also kinked. It was kinda sad I must admit.

One eye or no eyes?

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Originally Posted by waltah!

I was at a buddy's house a couple of weeks ago and he had a burm hatch out that looked like that, except it was also kinked. It was kinda sad I must admit.

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Except for missing the one eye, she's perfect. Of course she's the only one in the clutch to survive, the others were real train wreaks.

It's actually pretty creepy at first look. It was the first time I had seen it. The burm I was referring to had no eyes.

If she only has one eye and you raise her and she breeds..are her babies garunteed to only have 1 eye as well..what are the chances of her defect carrying over to her offspring?

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Originally Posted by Maize411

If she only has one eye and you raise her and she breeds..are her babies garunteed to only have 1 eye as well..what are the chances of her defect carrying over to her offspring?

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I don't think the defect on her would result in the same to some or most of her offspring if she did grow to become a breeding female. I don't think defects spread to the offspring, I think the defects only are caused in sometime during the incubation if something went wrong such as low/high humidity or temps.

Do Pythons, and boas truly need eyes? I mean, their vision isnt great to begin with and they mainly rely on their heat sensing pits and jacobsons organ (tongue flickering)...

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Originally Posted by CoolioTiffany

I don't think the defect on her would result in the same to some or most of her offspring if she did grow to become a breeding female. I don't think defects spread to the offspring, I think the defects only are caused in sometime during the incubation if something went wrong such as low/high humidity or temps.

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Defects dont usually take place from low/high humidity or temps.. They usuallly take place because of the parents breeding.. If the parents are very closely related and are bred (Line Breeding), babies can sometimes be born with defects... Usually if somethings wrong with the humidity or temps for long periods of time, the egg will just die... And sometimes defects happen out of nowhere...

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Originally Posted by DBD

Defects dont usually take place from low/high humidity or temps.. They usuallly take place because of the parents breeding.. If the parents are very closely related and are bred (Line Breeding), babies can sometimes be born with defects... Usually if somethings wrong with the humidity or temps for long periods of time, the egg will just die... And sometimes defects happen out of nowhere...

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I haven't had any experience with defected ball pythons, but I know that in leopard geckos defects can definitely occur as a result of fluctuating incubation temperatures. I'm in no way saying that is what happened here, because I truly don't know, nor am I saying this absolutely applies to balls, because I don't know that either, haha--I just know it happens with leos on occasion. Anywho, besides the eye she looks great, I'm sure she'll grow up to be happy and healthy despite her slight handicap!

Cheers,
-Matt

Are you going to raise her?
I watched a show where they blindfolded pythons and then fed them rats. The pythons hunted and struck just as well as when they could see. She may live a good life even with the defect. I wouldnt breed her though.

well, despite her missing eye, as long as she is healthy and stays that way.. i see nothing wrong with her. beautiful reduced pattern and coloration. sorry about the rest of the clutch.

hm. why do you think the whole clutch went bad? any info on the parents? did you have any temperature problems during incubation or soemthing?

She's without a doubt, a beautiful animal! Do you plan to cull her or go ahead and raise her as a pet? Too bad that there's not a conclusive way to determine if it was a genetic defect or simply something that went wrong during incubation, because then you have the moral delimma of whether or not to breed her.

Perhaps you can find a good pet home for her?

Poor thing, I'd take her as a pet for sure!

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Originally Posted by CoolioTiffany

I don't think the defect on her would result in the same to some or most of her offspring if she did grow to become a breeding female. I don't think defects spread to the offspring, I think the defects only are caused in sometime during the incubation if something went wrong such as low/high humidity or temps.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by DBD

Defects dont usually take place from low/high humidity or temps.. They usuallly take place because of the parents breeding.. If the parents are very closely related and are bred (Line Breeding), babies can sometimes be born with defects... Usually if somethings wrong with the humidity or temps for long periods of time, the egg will just die... And sometimes defects happen out of nowhere...

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I will settle both of those claims, defect can be caused by both it can be in the genetics but it can also be due to incubation.

Have a look at this yellow belly: http://www.worldofballpythons.com/bl...w-belly-freak/

Sorry about the clutch

Well, here is some background in case anyone is interested. The Mother is a normal long term captive who is at least 20 years old or more. I've had her for 6 years, the person I got her from had her as a pet for over 10 years and had gotten her from another person who also had her for for quite a number of years (at least 5 I believe but possibly more) In the time I've had her, she has produced 3 clutches for me with never a deformed hatchling before this year. She has a very nice banded pattern that I've been hoping to reproduce.

I bred her this year to her son from two years ago who is a nice somewhat banded pastel so yes, there is inbreeding going on. She produced 7 good eggs this year but it was somewhat later then all my other clutches and I was not prepared with a separate incubation box so I ended up putting the eggs in with another clutch. However they were quite crowded and I wanted to move the eggs to their own box. Between 3-4 weeks later I had a box open up so I moved her eggs out of their current box and placed them in a box of their own.

Within a week, 4 of the eggs were dead. The other three continued to look fine. I cut her egg open before any of the remaining eggs pipped and it didn't look like she was ready. (I didn't notice her missing eye at the time) It was a week before she was blowing bubbles and breathing air. Around the same time, one of her litter mates slit it's egg and died, I cut the egg as soon as I noticed the slit but it was already too late, it was a very nice looking pastel that appeared perfect (except for being dead). I then cut the other one and found a baby that was severely kinked, was also missing eyes and had a very deformed jaw (it went into the freezer).

So, was inbreeding an issue? I don't know, I've produced several dozen clutches through inbreeding that hatched perfect babies. I've also had clutches with severely deformed babies where the parents could not have even been remotely related. Could it be an incubation problem? Again, I don't know. I've moved around clutches before and have had some go through some pretty big temp fluctuations without any noticeable effects. I do wonder if there is a period of time during incubation when the eggs are particularly susceptible to temp and humidity variations where they just shouldn't be messed with.

I really don't think that there is enough information here to determine exactly what went wrong. I do plan on doing the exact same breeding again, probably in two years (the female seems to have a two year cycle) and see what happens at that point. I will be keeping the surviving baby, at least for a while. I don't believe in putting down animals that can survive on their own with just a few minor defects. I'll probably get her feeding and make sure she sheds and defecates and that all other bodily functions are working well and then either keep her for educational shows or give her to someone as a pet. She really is kind of pretty if you don't dwell on the eye issue.

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Originally Posted by Maize411

If she only has one eye and you raise her and she breeds..are her babies garunteed to only have 1 eye as well..what are the chances of her defect carrying over to her offspring?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by CoolioTiffany

I don't think the defect on her would result in the same to some or most of her offspring if she did grow to become a breeding female. I don't think defects spread to the offspring, I think the defects only are caused in sometime during the incubation if something went wrong such as low/high humidity or temps.

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Defects like this are usually developmental rather than genetic, if the eggs were moved around during incubation it greatly increases the risk to the embros. That's why you see so many folks will actually put x's on the tops of their eggs.

You want the top to stay upright if you have to move them for any reason. "Roll-away" eggs can also have a larger risk of defect... then sometimes you just have it happen. It is a sad part of breeding but necessary, to know when to put a baby down or give it a chance.

The baby here deserves a shot IMHO & can live a normal life. I'm sorry about your odds Mark S, but I'm glad you're giving this one a chance.