snakes can digest their own hearts!!!

while I don't agree with this guys methods his findings are quite interesting.
http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/s...07/2011956.htm

Very interesting thanks for posting.

Actually so do you. During extreme starvation your body will use up all of it's fat reserves for energy first and then when those are gone start on your muscles and internal organs. I believe that people who have starved to death die of organ failure.

wow I didn't know that.

wow like we really needed to know that and it was REALLY worth putting a whole bunch of snakes in a freeking blender and making python smoothies for that glorious oh so astonishing fact that any starving animal would begin to digest stored fats. wow i coulda told you that from looking at your starving snake THANKS ALOT mr scientist.
yeah thats what id say to him.
ohhhmyfreeekinggod im so pissed right now i hope animal activist are all up this scientists butthole right about now!!!!!!!!

I understand that some are mad because snakes make you feel all fuzzy inside, but it's not like he was cruel to them. Everyone knows that snakes can live for over a year without food, and some have actually had snakes refuse food on their own for that long. 168 days is only half a year, so I don't really see that as being cruel since their body structure is made to function with a lack of food. As far as the blender goes, they were euthanized first, so still no cruelty there either. If his studies do end up playing a part in helping humans survive longer periods of time without dying from hunger, I'd say those snakes died for a good purpose.

I too dont like how he did this experiment. He starved over 60 animals, kills them and then puts them in a blender. He didnt need to do this to that many animals. It would make more sence to do tests on snakes that are not eating on thier own.

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Originally Posted by Kryptonian

I too dont like how he did this experiment. He starved over 60 animals, kills them and then puts them in a blender. He didnt need to do this to that many animals. It would make more sence to do tests on snakes that are not eating on thier own.

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Most researchers would consider a sample group of 60 to be too small. It also seems to me that if the animals are choosing not to eat, that could affect the results of an experiment looking to see what kind of effects a lack of prey would have on a normally eating snake.

This would certainly be considered unconscionable cruelty if it were conducted on any mammalian species.
I'm not entirely sure I appreciate the 'ends justify the means' mentality in this experiment. I'm all for science, but starving, beating, delivering electrical shocks to, depriving of water, isolating, drowning, and various other cruel behavioral and metabolic experiments are pretty hard for any ethical person to justify.
This experiment involved torture. It may be a torture that some snakes would be subjected to in the wild, but that is really not the point, is it?

When a ball python fasts for half the year, this is natural--when it is deprived of food for half the year at a time when it would choose to eat, by the deliberate actions of a person...this is animal cruelty.

Suprise surprise, they do extensive tests like this on mammals. (i.e. rats, cats, dogs, mice, monkeys, rabbits....)

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Originally Posted by m00kfu

I understand that some are mad because snakes make you feel all fuzzy inside, but it's not like he was cruel to them. Everyone knows that snakes can live for over a year without food, and some have actually had snakes refuse food on their own for that long. 168 days is only half a year, so I don't really see that as being cruel since their body structure is made to function with a lack of food. As far as the blender goes, they were euthanized first, so still no cruelty there either. If his studies do end up playing a part in helping humans survive longer periods of time without dying from hunger, I'd say those snakes died for a good purpose.

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yeah snakes do make me feel fuzzy inside, i like it (: i dont think the experiment was worth it though, do you? i dont think that his studies will end up helping humans in any way, other than relating snakes to all other living things which isnt very groundbreaking. the starving wasnt so bad the dead ball python in a blender was the sick part. he could have just taken tissue samples and blended those but im no scientist and idk if that would work.
and yeah im totally snakist here but why couldnt he have used some other snakes!! ball pythons are exotic and beautiful ):
its like if i blended cheetahs instead of idk i cant think of a good example haha but catch my drift ?

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Suprise surprise, they do extensive tests like this on mammals. (i.e. rats, cats, dogs, mice, monkeys, rabbits....)

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im curious why some of you arent going all PETA on this guy like i did.
i didnt mean to single you out littleindiangirl, sorry i dont know your name haha it sounds like an insult when im saying it in context. what is your name? it was just an example.
i dont think animals should be put in blenders unless maybe they die by themselves and not by lethal injection. do you simply see it as worth it? or what?

He did use more than just ball pythons. Just sayin'.

Little devil's advocate here....

How is depriving food for science any different than we deprive food during breeding season, (which can extend for almost half a year).

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Originally Posted by eclipsesmommy

im curious why some of you arent going all PETA on this guy like i did.
i didnt mean to single you out littleindiangirl, sorry i dont know your name haha it sounds like an insult when im saying it in context. what is your name? it was just an example.
i dont think animals should be put in blenders unless maybe they die by themselves and not by lethal injection. do you simply see it as worth it? or what?

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I am not a support of PETA in any way, and I think it's ironic you don't know (or maybe forgot) they kill thousands of animals by lethal injection at their own head quarters every year.

And the blender part your really sticking to aren't you. The animal was euthanized humanely. We kill thousands of rats here in our home every year via CO2. I can't say that blending a snake carcass is so terrible that anyone should be up in arms over. :/

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

He did use more than just ball pythons. Just sayin'.

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yeah but he could have just left them and the ratsnakes out and just blended those diamondbacks to a pulp, i mean those kill people !!!! im aware im being silly i took science classes, i know you need a wide range of subjects to experiment on to draw reliable conclusions. but dang! those are pets !! seriously, people take care of those kinds of animals and LOVE them. that should count against the blending big time.
what if instead of blending only 20 normal balls he blended 3 pairs of normals, then 1 pair of each morph including designer morphs would that change anything?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

I am not a support of PETA in any way, and I think it's ironic you don't know (or maybe forgot) they kill thousands of animals by lethal injection at their own head quarters every year.

And the blender part your really sticking to aren't you. The animal was euthanized humanely. We kill thousands of rats here in our home every year via CO2. I can't say that blending a snake carcass is so terrible that anyone should be up in arms over. :/

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i know all about PETA. in context, i was using PETA as how people act out against animal cruelty, not the organization in particular. :)

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Originally Posted by eclipsesmommy

yeah but he could have just left them and the ratsnakes out and just blended those diamondbacks to a pulp, i mean those kill people !!!! im aware im being silly i took science classes, i know you need a wide range of subjects to experiment on to draw reliable conclusions. but dang! those are pets !! seriously, people take care of those kinds of animals and LOVE them. that should count against the blending big time.
what if instead of blending only 20 normal balls he blended 3 pairs of normals, then 1 pair of each morph including designer morphs would that change anything?

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I.... don't think it's worth debating this with you anymore. :rolleyes:

haha you never answered my question.
i was merely stating my opinion then asking you why you think his research was worth the life. but ok thanks for the discussion

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

When a ball python fasts for half the year, this is natural--when it is deprived of food for half the year at a time when it would choose to eat, by the deliberate actions of a person...this is animal cruelty.

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If it had been for a longer period of time, then I would agree with you. As it was only six months or so, and at the most had lost 20% of their weight, they were far from starving unless already emaciated when he started the experiment. I would assume he had used snakes that were a good healthy weight.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eclipsesmommy

yeah snakes do make me feel fuzzy inside, i like it (: i dont think the experiment was worth it though, do you? i dont think that his studies will end up helping humans in any way, other than relating snakes to all other living things which isnt very groundbreaking. the starving wasnt so bad the dead ball python in a blender was the sick part. he could have just taken tissue samples and blended those but im no scientist and idk if that would work.
and yeah im totally snakist here but why couldnt he have used some other snakes!! ball pythons are exotic and beautiful ):
its like if i blended cheetahs instead of idk i cant think of a good example haha but catch my drift ?

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I like snakes too, I wouldn't have so many if I didn't. As far as the blending part, sure it's kind of sick, and not something I would want to do myself, but the animal was euthanized prior to it. Had the animal been thrown in the blender alive then you can bet I'd be outraged. I would assume ball pythons were included in the study because they're the cheapest and most abundant species of python in the US.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eclipsesmommy

i dont think animals should be put in blenders unless maybe they die by themselves and not by lethal injection. do you simply see it as worth it? or what?

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I don't see how being euthanized or dying of natural causes has anything to do with being put in a blender. There are people out there who do much worse to ball pythons. Remember those kids who nailed a living ball python to a telephone pole? Or how about that football team who bought one to kill on the field for good luck before a game? Or all the negligent owners out there who keep them in horrible conditions?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eclipsesmommy

yeah but he could have just left them and the ratsnakes out and just blended those diamondbacks to a pulp, i mean those kill people !!!! im aware im being silly i took science classes, i know you need a wide range of subjects to experiment on to draw reliable conclusions. but dang! those are pets !! seriously, people take care of those kinds of animals and LOVE them. that should count against the blending big time.
what if instead of blending only 20 normal balls he blended 3 pairs of normals, then 1 pair of each morph including designer morphs would that change anything?

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I really don't get how you think it's ok to throw one species of snake in a blender but not another? As far as the morphs go, they're still ball pythons. The only thing I could see it changing would be if a certain morph didn't handle a lack of food as well due to a weaker physiology.

oops I didn't want to start any fights. i think its the blender part that got me. that just makes it seem so much worse. either way I just wanted to point out how neat it was that snakes have that ability.

No fights, just debates. :gj:

i did this same experiment w/ my grandma and she only made it about two weeks...couldn't fit her in the blender though :(

I frown upon it because, any living animal that has stomach acids if starved will start to break down other things. I don't think it was worth the life of the snakes.

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Originally Posted by redpython

i did this same experiment w/ my grandma and she only made it about two weeks...couldn't fit her in the blender though :(

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hahahahaha

You need this

http://image36.webshots.com/36/8/38/...1rGDTuS_fs.jpg

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Originally Posted by Patrick Long

hahahahaha

You need this

http://image36.webshots.com/36/8/38/...1rGDTuS_fs.jpg

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Link doesn't work.

damnit!

You need THIS!!!!!!

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y81...n/IMG_1741.jpg

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Originally Posted by eclipsesmommy

yeah but he could have just left them and the ratsnakes out and just blended those diamondbacks to a pulp, i mean those kill people !!!!

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Uh... :confused::confused::confused:

...are you serious?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Patrick Long

damnit!

You need THIS!!!!!!

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y81...n/IMG_1741.jpg

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Hah! I want one.

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Originally Posted by icygirl

Uh... :confused::confused::confused:

...are you serious?

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I wondered the same thing. :O


And that woman crouched down in front of the giant blender, she looks as if she's not wearing pants at first. :weirdface

Good post.. Thanks for sharing..:D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eclipsesmommy

yeah but he could have just left them and the ratsnakes out and just blended those diamondbacks to a pulp, i mean those kill people !!!! im aware im being silly i took science classes, i know you need a wide range of subjects to experiment on to draw reliable conclusions. but dang! those are pets !! seriously, people take care of those kinds of animals and LOVE them. that should count against the blending big time.

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I'm sure the snakes that he had for his testing were not pets. They were lab animals, bought for a specific reason. Also, I'm sure Diamondback Rattlesnakes are pets somewhere out there, granted they're not the same as Ball Pythons are with humans, they're still kept in a tank/tub under the care of a human.

I agree, it's crappy that he did this, but there are alot worse things that can happen. Just be happy that they were humanly euthanized at the end.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Elise.m

I'm sure the snakes that he had for his testing were not pets. They were lab animals, bought for a specific reason.

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I was reading through the thread to see if anyone else was going to say this, and it looks like you said it for me. +1, Thank you.

I think you guys need to do a few things before criticisim. First go and read the actual study, you will get alot more detail about the methods rather then "blended snakes with the smoothie setting" and you will get some background as to why the study is important. Secondly, you need to understand that every researcher (myself included) has to answer to an ethics board for anythign we do, we have to show just cause for doing any experiment by demonstating that the experiment will benefit eith humans or the species being experimented on; we also have to increase the benefits as much as possible while mimising the risk to the animals and ensuring their dignity. There are even special ethics boards that do deal only with animal participants. Lastly, without studies liek this we wouldnt have all those nice snake meds that keep our pets alive during RI and parasite infestation, to develop those maybe hundreds of snakes were infected on purpose "tossed in a Blendtec total Belender" and studied, as a result thousands of peopels pets get to live.

When I first read this I was mad. Then logic set in. I used to work for seniors and as much as I hate seeing those poor snakes die, it would be wonderful if they could find some way to make people who can't eat or people that forgot (or don't want to etc..) live longer or at least suffer less. As much as I love my snakes, I would trade them all, YES even my morphs, for even a fighting chance to keep those people I used to take care of from slowly dying. It is a horrible death, not a quick and easy one. I don't know if I am explaining it so others can understand it, but when you have to help an old person just to sit up and can see every bone in their body...especially when they are trying to get some weight on, or just to keep the weight they have...it brings home how important studies like these are.

I am not sure if I am making my point but when looking at a friend that can not seem to gain weight no matter what they eat, is one of the saddest things I know. Snakes can handle starvation and truely it was not even that long for some snakes. Go to a nursing home and see those poor humans who can not get down, or keep down food, 6 months is forever to them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Patrick Long

damnit!

You need THIS!!!!!!

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y81...n/IMG_1741.jpg

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You could make one heck of a margarita in that thing!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

This would certainly be considered unconscionable cruelty if it were conducted on any mammalian species.
I'm not entirely sure I appreciate the 'ends justify the means' mentality in this experiment. I'm all for science, but starving, beating, delivering electrical shocks to, depriving of water, isolating, drowning, and various other cruel behavioral and metabolic experiments are pretty hard for any ethical person to justify.
This experiment involved torture. It may be a torture that some snakes would be subjected to in the wild, but that is really not the point, is it?

When a ball python fasts for half the year, this is natural--when it is deprived of food for half the year at a time when it would choose to eat, by the deliberate actions of a person...this is animal cruelty.

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I don't see how it was torture if these same snakes experience very similar conditions in the wild.

Furthermore, I cant believe the actual article did not mention the snakes were first euthanized before they were sent to the blender. Very poor science journalism there! The way the author describes it would never pass mustard with IACUC (Institutional Animal Care and Use Committees). Most people, unfortunately, do not know how strict regulations and compliance surveillance are in research labs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mendel's Balls

Furthermore, I cant believe the actual article did not mention the snakes were first euthanized before they were sent to the blender.

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Seventh paragraph from the article --

Quote:

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McCue then chemically euthanised each snake and pureed it in a blender to better conduct chemical analysis.

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So yeah, it DID say they were put down before blending.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Neal

I frown upon it because, any living animal that has stomach acids if starved will start to break down other things. I don't think it was worth the life of the snakes.

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Its not the animals stomach acids that break down the organs. It doesn't take place in the stomach at all. This is something that animals do to survive. For instance when you eat less your fat doesn't go to your stomach to keep you going.

People may not agree with the science but in the end its going to happen and we all benefit from it. Look up "dog head transplant." When you are all done freaking out about how cruel and awful that was, think about how experiments like that are what allowed for heart transplants, valve replacements, and limb reattachments. You have no idea how the science will help. In the end I don't believe the amount of time the snakes were deprived of food raises to the level of cruelty and the animals were euthanized before being blended. We all kill or support businesses that kill around 60 or more mammals a year per snake. We raise countless more animals to eat ourselves, for our other pets to eat, and for the products we use. 60 snakes for science isn't even a blip on my radar.