Paradox

Want to know more about this so called "paradox" gene or if it is a gene or genetic thing or ?what?. I dont know much about it if anybodys knows where to find info on this please let me know or if anybody here wants to help me out with questions that would be great.

I dont believe that anyone has ever proven the Paradox gene to be genetic. It is more of a random occurence... I produced a Paradox Crystal a few years ago and have not produced anything Paradox since!

http://gallery.kingsnake.com/data/43...stal_f-med.JPG

The photo and snake are owned by Bryce Honstead of the Reptile Image!

So a rare thing huh, ok ... That snake is just WOW I must say

Paradox is merely a random effect, nobody is very sure of the cause yet.

But I think of it as a cherry on top, just a little something extra to look forward to. :gj:

So since I got my paradox pinstripe im wondering once I kould mate him am I gonna kum out with pinstripes most likely?

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Originally Posted by harm286

So since I got my paradox pinstripe im wondering once I kould mate him am I gonna kum out with pinstripes most likely?

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breed is a better term lol

I've thought for a while that paradox snakes might be 'chimeras'. To get a chimera in mammals you need a set of fraternal twins (siblings with different sets of fraternal DNA), and one of them needs to absorb the other. The results can be variable, from a person or dog with two differently coloured eyes, or a male tri-coloured cat (which is a genetic impossibility unless it has 2 different sets of DNA). There was a story in the news a while back about a woman who was fighting for custody of her kids. They collected her DNA from a blood sample and compared her DNA to her children's to make sure that they were hers and she could legally have custody. It didn't match, but she was sure she was their mother. They investigated it further and discovered she was a chimera. Her ovaries belonged to a fraternal twin that she'd absorbed in the womb, so her children's DNA was inherited from the twin. Here's the story if you're interested: http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=2315693 Now, I'm not sure if two different ball python morphs can be conceived in the same egg, or if they're always identical twins. That fact could make or break the theory. :)

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Originally Posted by Ash

I've thought for a while that paradox snakes might be 'chimeras'. To get a chimera in mammals you need a set of fraternal twins (siblings with different sets of fraternal DNA), and one of them needs to absorb the other. The results can be variable, from a person or dog with two differently coloured eyes, or a male tri-coloured cat (which is a genetic impossibility unless it has 2 different sets of DNA). There was a story in the news a while back about a woman who was fighting for custody of her kids. They collected her DNA from a blood sample and compared her DNA to her children's to make sure that they were hers and she could legally have custody. It didn't match, but she was sure she was their mother. They investigated it further and discovered she was a chimera. Her ovaries belonged to a fraternal twin that she'd absorbed in the womb, so her children's DNA was inherited from the twin. Here's the story if you're interested: http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=2315693 Now, I'm not sure if two different ball python morphs can be conceived in the same egg, or if they're always identical twins. That fact could make or break the theory. :)

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There was a member on here who hatched out a spotnose and a powerball in the same egg earlier this season. Obviously these were the same sire, not sure if you were referring to having completely different sires or just different siblings.

She's referring to the idea that they're two snakes in one, with two separate sets of DNA. It's weird, but could be tested for?

Cheers,
-Matt

Think of a paradox as a set of genes or cells that didn't get the memo about what type of skin cell they were supposed to be. Funny thing is a few years ago there was a paradox albino that when bred to an albino produced hets. Come to find out the paradox was a het albino that liiked like an albino paradox.. Weird stuff huh???

Haha, that's crazy. I guess it's easier to get excited about the Albino genes than normal stuff :P

Cheers,
-Matt

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Originally Posted by Ash

I've thought for a while that paradox snakes might be 'chimeras'. To get a chimera in mammals you need a set of fraternal twins (siblings with different sets of fraternal DNA), and one of them needs to absorb the other. The results can be variable, from a person or dog with two differently coloured eyes, or a male tri-coloured cat (which is a genetic impossibility unless it has 2 different sets of DNA). There was a story in the news a while back about a woman who was fighting for custody of her kids. They collected her DNA from a blood sample and compared her DNA to her children's to make sure that they were hers and she could legally have custody. It didn't match, but she was sure she was their mother. They investigated it further and discovered she was a chimera. Her ovaries belonged to a fraternal twin that she'd absorbed in the womb, so her children's DNA was inherited from the twin. Here's the story if you're interested: http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=2315693 Now, I'm not sure if two different ball python morphs can be conceived in the same egg, or if they're always identical twins. That fact could make or break the theory. :)

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I've also heard the theory that 2 sperm fertilized the egg at the same time and the 2 sets of male genes fight it out causing the paradox look. The snake would have to be bred to see what it really is.....

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Originally Posted by JenH

I've also heard the theory that 2 sperm fertilized the egg at the same time and the 2 sets of male genes fight it out causing the paradox look. The snake would have to be bred to see what it really is.....

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Mmmmnope.

Double fertilization should result in triploidy, which is generally, in vertebrates (here comes my favorite medical euphemism), "incompatible with life." Unless the two sperm fertilized the one egg, which then split into two zygotes like in this article, which then fused again to form a chimera. Which seems, to me, really pretty unlikely, given how unlikely that type of twinning is in the first place.

I like the chimera theory. Although, has a paradox ever been created from breeding recessive x recessive? ... I feel like I read that one or two had ...

Basicaly a paradox is an area where the morph gene doesn't fully supress the normal gene and the result is a paradox..

The cool ones are the super Paradox's.. Where you have a say white snake with big sploches of the base mutation pattern and color.

Or even better the Het albino that cropped up a few years ago that looked like a paradox albino but ended up being a het.

Photo owned by Tom Cowell - This is a Het and not an albino..Pretty cool eh??
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...etAlbino03.jpg

I hatched this BEL paradox out last year from a mojave x normal breeding, and I know of a lot of homozygous phenotype-having paradox' that are produced from clutches that should only produce heterozygous phenotypes, so most paradox' are likely to only have the breeding capability of the heterozygous mutation.

http://www.jwexotics.com/BPs/paradox.jpg

Paradox are ugly IMO.

They are the visually challenged BP's. lol

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Basicaly a paradox is an area where the morph gene doesn't fully supress the normal gene and the result is a paradox..

The cool ones are the super Paradox's.. Where you have a say white snake with big sploches of the base mutation pattern and color.

Or even better the Het albino that cropped up a few years ago that looked like a paradox albino but ended up being a het.

Photo owned by Tom Cowell - This is a Het and not an albino..Pretty cool eh??
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...etAlbino03.jpg

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I actually took that picture for Tom. It is a beautiful snake in person and yes it is a het not an albino.

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Originally Posted by Ash

The results can be variable, from a person or dog with two differently coloured eyes, or a male tri-coloured cat (which is a genetic impossibility unless it has 2 different sets of DNA).

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male tricolor cats can have the different DNA sets, or be XXY instead of XY, its a genetic disorder (that also actually occurs in humans as well). I cant recall the name but i can look it up if you'd like

i have absolutely no clue if this happens in snakes though. Does the reptile/snake genome even use the X and Y to differentiate sex?

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Originally Posted by cinderbird

male tricolor cats can have the different DNA sets, or be XXY instead of XY, its a genetic disorder (that also actually occurs in humans as well). I cant recall the name but i can look it up if you'd like

i have absolutely no clue if this happens in snakes though. Does the reptile/snake genome even use the X and Y to differentiate sex?

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In humans, the XXY genotype is called Klienfelter's syndrome. XXY males are almost always sterile (both Klienfelter humans and male calico cats), so if these paradox snakes are proving out as breeders, they are probably not XXY.

In addition, however, I don't believe snakes have the XY sex chromosome system. I believe, for what very few species have been studied, that they have a ZW system like birds -- females are the heterogametic sex (ZW), while males are ZZ.

So, this does mean that a fertile "calico" male snake would be possible -- BUT, that would have to mean that that the locus for the color in question would be located on the "Z" chromosome, which I don't believe is the case for most of the morphs we propagate based on the pattern of inheritance. So, I tend to doubt that paradoxes are calicos ...

Though of course, I don't even know if the pattern of sex inheritance has been studied in boid snakes ...

Freakie Frog -- I'm not quite sure what you're saying with the mutant gene not quite "suppressing" the normal gene. The mutant albino gene, for example, isn't suppressing melanin production, it's just defective -- no melanin produced. (And of course, you only need one functional gene to produce enough melanin to be normally colored, which is why albino is a recessive trait ...) So, in a paradox, I would think that, instead of the mutant gene failing to suppress the melanin production in some patches of cells, it would be more like the normal gene somehow manages to get expressed despite the fact that there shouldn't be a functional gene present. (In the case of homozygous paradoxes ...)

Which is just ... Weird.

(I feel like maybe that is what you were trying to say, though, and I just wasn't understanding your meaning ... :) )

Paradox animals are never produced from breeding homoXhomo as all the offfpsring would be homozygous and you wouldnt notice any chimeras.

I have been talking about the chimera thing for years and its the only explanation that fits all cases.

In the case of paradoxes that come from het X normal and the resulting animal appears as either the homozygous form or at least partly expresses the homozygous phenotype there is another explanation.

Monosomy or "mosaic"monosomy would explain animals like the paradox super mojave that was posted.

In this genetic disorder, some of the genetic information from one parent simply fails to transmit to the offspring. The result is that they are missing one copy of certain genes.

If the animal such as the mojave shown simply did not recieve the normal copy of that allele from the normal parent. This leaves only a single copy of that gene and since it was the mojave version , the areas that lack the second normal copy appear luecistic.

People assume that its the presence of the second copy of the mutatn gene that makes the "super" when its far more likely that its really just the ABSENCE of any normal copies that creat the homozygous phenotype.

Nick