Super Spider Ball

I myself think there is a super spider that doesn't have a different visual then a normal spider. Normal spiders when bred to a normal will have 50% s 50% n ( on avrg. Now spider to spider breeding will produce a super spider. The only way to find out which one it is ( because there is no difference in appearance ) would be to breed it out to another normal. ALL eggs will come out spider ..thus the super spider. Super s = All eggs will come out dominate trait, N Spider = 50% come out spider 50% normal. These are just my views as to what I have witnessed and studied. I will have more info on the " Super Dominate " when I have enough evidence. I have come across this sight while looking for others info on the topic.

http://www.ballpython.ca/what_get/dominant.html

He apparently has the right idea. This is a topic that should be looked into by big breeders and most of us little breeders! I dont expect this to raise up for some time, But im just giving you a bit of info and my opinion!

Thanks for reading,

xXxFluffyxXx

( I do expect to hear answers and people having :sabduel: ) :)

Yea there is a super spider. But then spider to spider breeding yield unhealthy offspring with lots of deformities, such as duckbills, no eyes, kinks, wobbles, corkscrews, all of that.

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Originally Posted by guambomb832

Yea there is a super spider. But then spider to spider breeding yield unhealthy offspring with lots of deformities, such as duckbills, no eyes, kinks, wobbles, corkscrews, all of that.

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Nobody owns a proof of that, I think it's just a myth.
Why should an homozygous form be letal?
Somebody here has got a spider which gave 100% spider when paired with a normal.

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Originally Posted by guambomb832

Yea there is a super spider. But then spider to spider breeding yield unhealthy offspring with lots of deformities, such as duckbills, no eyes, kinks, wobbles, corkscrews, all of that.

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Do you have proof of this?

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Originally Posted by guambomb832

Yea there is a super spider. But then spider to spider breeding yield unhealthy offspring with lots of deformities, such as duckbills, no eyes, kinks, wobbles, corkscrews, all of that.

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Never heard of any deformities with spiders merely that they have a wobble and some are worse than others. :weirdface

Lets see the super spider you speak of.... Nobody has any physical or documented proof of one existing. Simply word of mouth about some guy who knows some guy who saw one.

i think that there is such a thing as a super spider. I have never heard of the deformities that occur when breeding the spider x spider. The only lethal super that i have heard of is the super woma (pearl).

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Originally Posted by Dave86

Why should an homozygous form be letal?

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Obviously you are not too familiar with the Pearl (super woma TypeI) or the super Jag in carpets... Both of which are homozygous lethal

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Originally Posted by guambomb832

Yea there is a super spider. But then spider to spider breeding yield unhealthy offspring with lots of deformities, such as duckbills, no eyes, kinks, wobbles, corkscrews, all of that.

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Says who? :confused:

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Obviously you are not too familiar with the Pearl (super woma TypeI) or the super Jag in carpets... Both of which are homozygous lethal

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I know about that...I just don't know why people say a super spider MUST be lethal just because it's homozygous, without having or having had any proof like we have with womas, I hope you understand what I mean.

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Originally Posted by Dave86

I know about that...I just don't know why people say a super spider MUST be lethal just because it's homozygous, without having or having had any proof like we have with womas, I hope you understand what I mean.

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Because there is no proof of one existing so it has been deducted that it must either a) die in the egg b)the egg dies during incubation c) the eggs containing the supers are laid as slugs.

If you believe one exists, help prove they are out there. :gj:

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Originally Posted by Dave86

Why should an homozygous form be letal?

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Because sometimes that's just how the genetics works.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achondroplasia

This form of human dwarfism is homozygous-lethal, but presents itself as a mere physical change for anyone heterozygous for the dwarfism gene.

There are other snake morphs out there that are non-lethal for heterozygous snakes but lethal for homozygous snakes.

These include the pearl BP (at least so far to my knowledge), and super jaguar carpet python morph (they develop as leucistic carpet pythons, and form complete bodies, but die in the egg prior to hatching).

Interestingly the jag carpet python morph causes neuro issues, similar in some regards to the spinning and wobble you get with spider ball pythons. It does not surprise me at all that any gene that causes neuro issues for heterozygous snakes might cause even more serious brain issues leading to lethality in snakes that are homozygous for the gene.

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Originally Posted by Dave86

I know about that...I just don't know why people say a super spider MUST be lethal just because it's homozygous, without having or having had any proof like we have with womas, I hope you understand what I mean.

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I do get what you are saying but it is like Turbo said, absence of a snake that dies in the egg or shortly after hatching is not evidence that the super form is not lethal.

Given the close similarities to the Jag morph (as noted by butter) I would not be at all surprised if the super Spider were lethal. I would also not be a all surprised to learn that some of the big breeders may already know the truth and are just not talking about it. After all, the wobble/spin in spiders is already a raging controversy with some people, toss a lethal super into that controversy and you may as well pour gasoline on a bonfire...

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Originally Posted by Turbo Serpent

Because there is no proof of one existing so it has been deducted that it must either a) die in the egg b)the egg dies during incubation c) the eggs containing the supers are laid as slugs.

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I think noone pursuits this target...that's why we don't know about a super.
When the firts spiders hatchet their price was high...If you were a professional breeder what would you do? Selling them or raising all the babies and breed them to normal several times?

Maybe I would lol :D
But I think that if spider x spider eggs died during incubation, we would know.

I have a way to solve this WHOLE dilemma. Someone send me a yearling pair of spiders and I will raise them up and when the female is 2000+ grams I will breed them. I will then keep back all the offspring and raise them up and breed them to normals. :D:D

Sure it will take a few years but I am willing to put in the work in order to get to the bottom of this. lol

Potential Homozygous Spider??-

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...t=53588&page=3
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...46&postcount=9

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Originally Posted by HeartAche

I have a way to solve this WHOLE dilemma. Someone send me a yearling pair of spiders and I will raise them up and when the female is 2000+ grams I will breed them. I will then keep back all the offspring and raise them up and breed them to normals. :D:D

Sure it will take a few years but I am willing to put in the work in order to get to the bottom of this. lol

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It doesnt take a whole lot of work, all it is is just sacrificing the ability to create better combos, thats why you dont see the super spider stuff more often. I actually plan to eventually get 2 spiders and start the super spider stuff.

Nice try on getting some free spiders though lol :)

I also plan to work on producing and proving it out

NERD bred spider to spider plenty when they got the spider BP originally. No super spider has been proven yet. Does this mean super spider is lethal? No, not proven. Does this mean there is no super? Not proven, but darned likely.

Check out that first link in LGL's post above. Unfortunately I had a heat incident this season, so I don't know if I have any clutches at all from Sam this year. The clutch in the incubator is a "who's your daddy" clutch, so I would guess it doesn't count.

I will be breeding Sam next year to a few normal females, exclusively bred to him. I feel that should help me prove or disprove whether he is a possible super spider. Right now, he's just a real darned lucky spider dad, although all the dead fetuses make me wary.

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Originally Posted by Dave86

Nobody owns a proof of that, I think it's just a myth.
Why should an homozygous form be letal?
Somebody here has got a spider which gave 100% spider when paired with a normal.

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Has it been producing 100% spiders multiple times in a row without a normal in the clutch? If not, the chances aren't that low to have a fluke 100% spider clutch, especially depending on the size of the clutch if it was a ~4 egg clutch.

If there ends up being a "Super" Spider, I would guess it would be one that has at least one other gene involved, ideally even more. There might be some combination that cancels out the lethality.