Whaddya think of this deal?

I just saw this BP on craigslist, and it seems like a heck of a deal!! http://sfbay.craigslist.org/scz/pet/1303164724.html

He doesn't even know what morph or gender the snake is, but I'm guessing it's a black pastel... :confused::confused: Can anyone identify it, and tell me if this is worth looking into? TIA!

I really dont know if its anything other than a normal, but I think its beautiful...love the pattern

Yeah, it has a great pattern! Very black pastel-ish, but the coloring leads me to believe it's something more... cinnamon pastel, perhaps? http://www.constrictors.com/images/B...nnamon1092.jpg

Wow... I'm seeing cinnamon pastels on KS for between $300 (for babies) and $750!! Might be worth checking out, huh?? :gj:

It's a Cinnamon..Good looking snake.

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Originally Posted by Lolo76

I just saw this BP on craigslist, and it seems like a heck of a deal!! http://sfbay.craigslist.org/scz/pet/1303164724.html

He doesn't even know what morph or gender the snake is, but I'm guessing it's a black pastel... :confused::confused: Can anyone identify it, and tell me if this is worth looking into? TIA!

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definitely a cinnamon! :gj:

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Originally Posted by adogunnaike

definitely a cinnamon! :gj:

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Sweeeeeet... if it turns out to be female, I'd really be in business (since I have a male pastel). :gj: How much do those usually go for? I can't tell how old this one is, but I'm guessing under a year.

Definitely a Cinnamon and a good looking one at that. A female cinny that size would go for at least 400-500 over here. I would jump on it ASAP male OR female.

Good find!

Random question, is a cinnamon pastel the same as a cinnamon? And if I were to breed this snake with my pastel (assuming it was a female), I'd be able to make pewters - right? :weirdface

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Originally Posted by Lolo76

Random question, is a cinnamon pastel the same as a cinnamon? And if I were to breed this snake with my pastel (assuming it was a female), I'd be able to make pewters - right? :weirdface

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Same thing. Most folks drop the "pastel" label nowadays since they're not an actual pastel line like lemons or grazianis.

Cinnamon pastel = cinnamon = cinny

Really nice snake....I hope you're able to snatch it up!

i would never pay for nothing i havent seen in person all u know thats a scam or not the snake pay him when u see it in person

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Originally Posted by Lolo76

Random question, is a cinnamon pastel the same as a cinnamon? And if I were to breed this snake with my pastel (assuming it was a female), I'd be able to make pewters - right? :weirdface

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No.
Cinny Pastels and Cinnys are two different things.
And Pewters are another thing. :]

I do believe it's a CinnyPastel x Pastel to create a Pewter. The Pewter genetics always confused me though.

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Originally Posted by kris62901

i would never pay for nothing i havent seen in person all u know thats a scam or not the snake pay him when u see it in person

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Oh, of course I won't pay until I see the snake! ;) It's a semi-local deal, so I will either drive to him or meet in San Jose (halfway between us).

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

No.
Cinny Pastels and Cinnys are two different things.
And Pewters are another thing. :]

I do believe it's a CinnyPastel x Pastel to create a Pewter. The Pewter genetics always confused me though.

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Now I'm confused! :rolleye2:

Either way, it is a nice looking snake... I just emailed him about an hour ago, so hopefully he'll respond soon.

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

No.
Cinny Pastels and Cinnys are two different things.
And Pewters are another thing. :]

I do believe it's a CinnyPastel x Pastel to create a Pewter. The Pewter genetics always confused me though.

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A "Cinnamon Pastel" is just another name for a Cinnamon. As Judy said, the morph was originally called "Cinnamon Pastel" but since it doesn't actually carry the "Pastel" gene, most people just call it "Cinnamon" or "Cinny". A Pastel Cinnamon (that carries both the Pastel gene and the Cinnamon gene) is called a Pewter. The one in the picture is a Cinnamon (aka Cinnamon Pastel aka Cinny - it does not carry the Pastel gene though).

Thanks - got it! :gj:

So to clarify: Cinnamon (the snake in the ad) + Pastel = Pewter, Cinnamon & Pastel?

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

No.
Cinny Pastels and Cinnys are two different things.
And Pewters are another thing. :]

I do believe it's a CinnyPastel x Pastel to create a Pewter. The Pewter genetics always confused me though.

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Actually I believe you are wrong the Cinnamon is a Cinnamon Pastel...The Pastel part of the name has just been dropped in common reference to the morph. Pewter is a combination of Cinnamon Pastel (aka Cinnamon, or Cinny) and a Pastel (like Graziani, Lemon, blonde, ect.)

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Originally Posted by Lolo76

Now I'm confused! :rolleye2:

Either way, it is a nice looking snake... I just emailed him about an hour ago, so hopefully he'll respond soon.

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Don't be confused Cinny = Cinnamon = Cinny Pastel = Cinnamon Pastel, they are all the same thing.

Pewter is the combination of Cinny and "Regular" Pastel like a Nerd Lemon, Graziani, Blonde, ect.

That is a beautiful Cinny in my opinion and for that price Male or female does not matter as long as the animal is healthy.

Thanks!! I am excited about this snake now... anxious to hear back from him!

FYI, here is the pastel I would mate her with - if it turns out to be a her. ;)

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...s/DSCF6022.jpg

i want that pastel ship it and then ill pay u lol

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Originally Posted by Lolo76

Thanks - got it! :gj:

So to clarify: Cinnamon (the snake in the ad) + Pastel = Pewter, Cinnamon & Pastel?

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A Cinnamon x Pastel pairing will give each egg a 25% chance of being either a Pewter (Pastel Cinnamon), a Cinnamon, a Pastel, or a Normal.

Or if you are saying that if an animal carries both the Cinnamon gene and the Pastel gene, it is a Pewter (Pastel & Cinnamon genes), then you are correct.

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Originally Posted by LGL

A "Cinnamon Pastel" is just another name for a Cinnamon. As Judy said, the morph was originally called "Cinnamon Pastel" but since it doesn't actually carry the "Pastel" gene, most people just call it "Cinnamon" or "Cinny". A Pastel Cinnamon (that carries both the Pastel gene and the Cinnamon gene) is called a Pewter. The one in the picture is a Cinnamon (aka Cinnamon Pastel aka Cinny - it does not carry the Pastel gene though).

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I hate when people do that to me.
I see Cinnamon Pastel and I think they mean a PastelxCinny.
It really shouldn't be called that if it's unrelated to Pastels, IMO.

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

I hate when people do that to me.
I see Cinnamon Pastel and I think they mean a PastelxCinny.
It really shouldn't be called that if it's unrelated to Pastels, IMO.

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That's why many people prefer to just call them Cinnamons or Cinnys to avaid confusion. When I refer to what makes up a Pewter, I always put the Pastel first so people know it carries both the Pastel gene and the Cinnamon gene.

Pastel Cinnamon = Pewter (carries both genes)
Cinnamon Pastel = Cinnamon (only carries the Cinny gene)

That's why it's easier to just say "Pewter".


Here's the reasoning behind the original name - from http://www.grazianireptiles.com/collection/cinnamon.htm

"In the summer of 1997, I was going through shipments of ball pythons at Strictly Reptiles in Hollywood FL. I was looking for minor aberrancies, like odd colors and patterns. That day I picked out two hundred hatchling ball pythons out of thousands. One of the males that I picked had an odd cinnamon color and he was not as bright as the rest. His dorsal pattern was normal, but his side pattern showed some unusual blushing in the dark bands coming down towards the belly. His belly and upper labial scales were similar to those of the Pastel Jungle mutation. His belly had no black flecking like a normal ball python and his upper labial scales were light colored. The typical yellow/gold stripe that runs from the nostril through the eye to the rear of the cheek on most ball pythons was extremely reduced and was a pale tan color. The top half of the iris was silver, similar to the gold color in the top half of the Pastel Jungle’s iris. After a closer look at him we realized that he contained no yellow pigment. At that time we were calling him a Cinnamon ball python.

We proved him to be genetic in the summer of 2002 when we bred our wild caught Cinnamon Pastel male to 3 wild caught females. All 3 females laid eggs and out of 18 eggs we hatched 8 Cinnamon Pastels, which proved this mutation to be dominant. At that time we changed the name from Cinnamon to Cinnamon Pastel. The reason for the name change was because there were a number of other ball pythons that were being called cinnamon that did not resemble this mutation and did not prove to be genetic. Since this mutation had some similarities with the Pastel Jungle mutation, we called them Cinnamon Pastels. I know there is nothing pastel about them, but we needed to make sure people could distinguish between our proven mutation and the other unproven cinnamons. Since that time, when most people refer to them, they just call them Cinnamon. Kind of like the Spider, it was originally called Spider Webbed and after time the Webbed was dropped. "

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Originally Posted by kris62901

i want that pastel ship it and then ill pay u lol

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Suuuuuuure... I'll get right on that. Check's in the mail, right? :rofl:

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Originally Posted by LGL

A Cinnamon x Pastel pairing will give each egg a 25% chance of being either a Pewter (Pastel Cinnamon), a Cinnamon, a Pastel, or a Normal.

Or if you are saying that if an animal carries both the Cinnamon gene and the Pastel gene, it is a Pewter (Pastel & Cinnamon genes), then you are correct.

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No, I was just wrong - thanks for clearing it up! That would a nice clutch, no matter what the breakdown. :)

Your pastel has a retarded amount of blushing for being so young lol! mine is just starting to show here and there.

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Originally Posted by Danounet

Your pastel has a retarded amount of blushing for being so young lol! mine is just starting to show here and there.

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Yeah, he does have some amazing blushing. :) He looks even more pale after his last shed, since he lost some scales from rubbing hard... but even so, I love his coloring. Thanks for the comment!

How old is he again?

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Originally Posted by Danounet

How old is he again?

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Not sure exactly. I got him in late May ('09), and they said he was a "holdback" - probably from 2008. So I'm guessing just under a year old, maybe younger? :confused:

So, have you heard from the breeder? You getting it? That would be a sweet deal! I can't wait to start adding some morphs to my collection:rolleyes:

I just talked to the owner on the phone, and it turns out they are professional breeders... they just had to word things carefully to follow CL rules, LOL. ;) She said it IS a cinnamon, about a year old, and they don't know the gender for sure. We're meeting up on Saturday in San Jose, and then I'll see if he/she is as pretty in person! :)

Oh, one question... I have to go somewhere in that area on Saturday night, after meeting up with the breeder. I'll probably be there until at LEAST 10-11pm, and will be meeting the snake around 4-5pm - so if I end up getting him/her, they'll have to stay in the car for about 6 hours. Is this alright, and how should I secure it? I have two of those snake bags, and/or I could bring one of my extra Sterilite tubs (with holes). Any suggestions? Weather shouldn't be an issue, since we have very mild temps around here.

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Originally Posted by Lolo76

I just talked to the owner on the phone, and it turns out they are professional breeders... they just had to word things carefully to follow CL rules, LOL. ;) She said it IS a cinnamon, about a year old, and they don't know the gender for sure. We're meeting up on Saturday in San Jose, and then I'll see if he/she is as pretty in person! :)

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A professional breeder doesn't know the sex for sure?

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Originally Posted by jglass38

A professional breeder doesn't know the sex for sure?

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I only talked to the wife, and she said her husband hadn't probed it... don't know why, but I can ask on Saturday!

P.S. I'm using the term "professional" loosely - they could be new to the breeding game.

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Originally Posted by Lolo76

I only talked to the wife, and she said her husband hadn't probed it... don't know why, but I can ask on Saturday!

P.S. I'm using the term "professional" loosely - they could be new to the breeding game.

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Good luck! I hope it works out well for you and you come home with a beautiful Cinny!!! :gj:

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Good luck! I hope it works out well for you and you come home with a beautiful Cinny!!! :gj:

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Thanks! I'm really excited to meet her tomorrow, and hopefully I will come home with a beautiful Cinny. I'm already thinking of names for him/her, LOL - Infinity, Sage, Cindy, Cassia, etc. :D

Btw, does anyone have an answer to my other question? Regarding how to keep her safe for 5-6 hours in the car? TIA!

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Originally Posted by Lolo76

Thanks! I'm really excited to meet her tomorrow, and hopefully I will come home with a beautiful Cinny. I'm already thinking of names for him/her, LOL - Infinity, Sage, Cindy, Cassia, etc. :D

Btw, does anyone have an answer to my other question? Regarding how to keep her safe for 5-6 hours in the car? TIA!

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to be honest i wouldn't keep a nice snake like that in a car for 5-6 hrs!

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Originally Posted by dc1

to be honest i wouldn't keep a nice snake like that in a car for 5-6 hrs!

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Unfortunately, I won't have any other choice... I'm picking her up in San Jose around 5pm, and then I have to go straight to Palo Alto (about 10 miles north) until 10-ish. Since I live up in San Francisco, another 30-40 minutes north, it's just not possible to drop her off in-between. I figure if they can be shipped overnight, it should be okay in a car for the evening. :confused:

I would not take a chance leaving her in the car like that. If it were after dark, then it'd probably be ok...but not while the sun is still shining. There is NO way to make sure she'd stay cool enough. You could TRY keeping her in a styrofoam cooler, maybe with a cool pack like they use for shipping...but I would not personally want to take that risk.

Is there any way you can take her in with you, to whatever it is you're doing? No one has to see her. Either way, she should be completely secured in a bag (pillowcase will work fine....just turn it inside out and make sure it doesn't have any loose seam threads). Then put the bag in a small, padded box with a very secure lid. Cardboard box is fine, with the lid taped shut...or a small tub with a few holes for ventilation. That's how I would transport her...and I'd just carry the box inside with me.

Hope it works out for ya!

Just checked out this ad. I saw a picture of the same snake posted in March when I was in the bay area. It was a different ad, worded entirely differently, but definitely the same snake. Seems unlikely that a deal that good on a cinnamon would have lasted this long... IMO

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Originally Posted by JLC

Is there any way you can take her in with you, to whatever it is you're doing? No one has to see her.

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I had to perform in a classical concert at a church... so I don't think they'd have welcomed a snake, LOL. :D She actually ended up re-scheduling on me, and we're planning to meet on Tuesday instead.

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Originally Posted by wRobio

Just checked out this ad. I saw a picture of the same snake posted in March when I was in the bay area. It was a different ad, worded entirely differently, but definitely the same snake. Seems unlikely that a deal that good on a cinnamon would have lasted this long... IMO

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Huh... I wonder what that means? :cool: Maybe they were going to keep him/her, and changed their mind? I'll definitely mention that when I talk to her next.

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Originally Posted by Lolo76

Huh... I wonder what that means? :cool: Maybe they were going to keep him/her, and changed their mind? I'll definitely mention that when I talk to her next.

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I thought you were getting the snake on Saturday? (yesterday) If it were me, I wouldn't spend the money on the snake -- I'm a moron, I can't tell the difference between normals and some of these morphs. The cinny looks just like a normal to me. I think they are too similiar to spend the extra $

If I ever get a morph (which I probably won't), I'd like an albino. Although I really do like mojaves too...(but it has to be a good one, otherwise just looks like a normal to me :)

George

Sorry, just looked at a previous post -- I see you rescheduled for Tuesday...sounds kind of fishy (with the reschedule and the questionable ad). Good luck!

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Originally Posted by chapskis1

Sorry, just looked at a previous post -- I see you rescheduled for Tuesday...sounds kind of fishy (with the reschedule and the questionable ad). Good luck!

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She was actually really cool about rescheduling, and offered to squeeze me in if I couldn't do Tuesday. But since I was already concerned about leaving him/her in the car, I figured next week is better anyway. Not sure what to think about the ad, but I'm generally a good judge of character - and she seems legitimate. Of course I'll assess the situation when we meet, and won't take the snake if anything feels "off."

As for the cinnamons looking like normals, the difference is mostly in the pattern and brown head... I'm also looking ahead, and hoping to make pewters with my pastel. You can't say this looks like a normal! :D http://www.ballpythonaddiction.com/w...6/pewter05.jpg

P.S. She also mentioned a few prospective buyers flaked, and caused her to waste the drive... they live out in the boonies, so that plus flaky buyers could explain the slow sale. Not to mention, snake keeping isn't such a popular hobby around here. :cool:

I would never reply to an ad that said "pay me before I travel." They're either willing to travel or not, that just screams scam. They can't even tell if its a cinny or a black pastel, or the gender. Did you bother to find out where they acquired it from, how long they've had it, etc? I hope you asked for more pictures of the animal at least. Ask them to take a picture of it on a piece of paper with the date written on it. See if they run.

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Originally Posted by HerpKeeperVA

I would never reply to an ad that said "pay me before I travel." They're either willing to travel or not, that just screams scam.

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She didn't ask me to pay first, and I never would do that! Since she's already heading this way on Tuesday, we're just planning to meet halfway.

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They can't even tell if its a cinny or a black pastel, or the gender. Did you bother to find out where they acquired it from, how long they've had it, etc?

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They do know it's a cinnamon, and bred it themselves last year - the ad was just worded that way to make it sound like an adoption. ;) I don't mean to defend them, since you are definitely causing me to think twice! But it's not quite as sketchy as it first appears...

I agree, it sounds kind of fishy or shady. I would be wary of any "professional" breeder selling snakes on Craigslist, one cause there are better sites to sell snakes on and two, its against their policy to "sell" animals. I would ask for more pictures and if your still interested and have a good feeling about the seller see if they will take half upfront and half after you see the animal. I'm sure they will understand you are protecting yourself from a bad deal. Or, go to their house, save them the drive and then they have nothing to worry about if you don't buy it. Plus if you tell them you want to go pick it up from them and they act strange about it that might be a sign that its a scam.

Did you already pay for the animal?

Good Luck!

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Originally Posted by Lolo76

She didn't ask me to pay first

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Her ad says it though.

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They do know it's a cinnamon, and bred it themselves last year - the ad was just worded that way to make it sound like an adoption. ;)

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I see... Hey, I've got a great deal on some beach front property in Kansas, you want in? ;)

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I don't mean to defend them, since you are definitely causing me to think twice! But it's not quite as sketchy as it first appears...

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Do you know how many people think that very same thing right before they cash bogus checks? We're just telling you to be careful as you seem to be taking everything they say to be 100% true. Not every snake breeder is worth dealing with. There are scams in every trade, so you need to be on your toes and ask as many questions as you can think of. If they are in fact genuine people then it's no wonder they haven't sold the snake yet, because they are coming off as scam artists. No reputable breeder would list a snake on CL and say "hey, I don't know what this is, so you can have it dirt cheap!" just to get around CL's policies. If they aren't cons they're incredibly stupid.

I appreciate all of the responses, but I'm not a moron... I've been dealing with CL for YEARS, and have never been victim of a scam. I have enough common sense to wait until seeing the product to pay, and would run fast if anything didn't seem kosher. I agree there are some sketchy things about this deal, but I figured it wouldn't help to check it out. She hasn't asked me for a dime, even if we meet halfway, and I haven't offered anything either. We're both heading the same direction on Tuesday, and will meet with no obligations on either end... if the snake looks good I'll give her money, if not I'll say "thanks but no thanks" and head home. :gj: