Does anybody know what the state of wild ball python populations is like?

I've been wondering for a while if there has ever been any research done on wild ball python populations. Are there any laws regarding how many can be exported every year? Although I do find gravid imports and captive hatching to be pretty fascinating stuff, every time I hear about it, I imagine how debilitating that must be to the wild population. This species reproduces EXTREMELY slowly even in captivity, so many things can go wrong, it must be so unlikely that a wild egg even grows up into adulthood, let alone becomes gravid, lays a clutch successfully, all while avoiding poachers and deportation.

What I would expect to happen as snakes are taken out of the wild is rodent populations go up. If rodent populations go up, they would damage farmer's crops and increase the likelihood that local people resort to eating 'bushmeat' (monkeys, wild pigs etc). This idea really concerns me and the more involved I get in this hobby the harder it becomes to ignore.

I would so love to hear about somebody trying to replenish the exported wild caught ball pythons with captive hatched ones from the states (or anywhere). It would be awful for them to go extinct in the wild. :tears: Anybody else ever wondered about this / have any information?

I think there might be some regulations that say they are only allowed to start exporting during the hatching season, or when the females turn gravid, but when you take a wc gravid female, you are destroying lots of generations. I don't recommend getting a wild-caught or captive-hatched ball python at all since there are so many breeders that work with ball pythons that you can get a captive-bred almost anywhere.

From what I have read, which is limited, it sounds like wild Ball Pythons are thriving. Also, a lot of exporters in Africa breed mass numbers of them in pits and farms, and I think a lot of those are the ones being exported.

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Originally Posted by Ash

I would so love to hear about somebody trying to replenish the exported wild caught ball pythons with captive hatched ones from the states (or anywhere). It would be awful for them to go extinct in the wild. :tears: Anybody else ever wondered about this / have any information?

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No need to replenish! They are thriving in the wild.

Why are people always so quick to assume that just because some animals are taken from the wild, then the wild numbers must be at a critical level?

People do this same crap with fish. Locally we are having one of the best Snapper / Grouper fishing seasons in years. Still they are about to install a year long ban on fishing them to increase numbers. As an avid diver, someone who goes down there and sees things with my own eyes every weekend, I can tell you they are full of BS.

I recall reading from the Barker's book that ball pythons have little natural predators left in the area they inhabit; so they are thriving. They are mostly a nuisance to the locals, what is not exported here for the pet trade is exported to other areas of the world as a food source.

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

Why are people always so quick to assume that just because some animals are taken from the wild, then the wild numbers must be at a critical level?

People do this same crap with fish. Locally we are having one of the best Snapper / Grouper fishing seasons in years. Still they are about to install a year long ban on fishing them to increase numbers. As an avid diver, someone who goes down there and sees things with my own eyes every weekend, I can tell you they are full of BS.

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By the way OP, this rant was not directed towards you... Just sharing my thoughts on the subject. Obviously this subject is a "hot button" for me. :gj:

Importers will always tell you that the wild ball python population is thriving, because who would buy them if they said that they were destroying the population? I disagree with importing ball pythons. IMO, we have enough breeders in the states that we do not need to import balls anymore. I only buy captive bred animals, and do not deal with companies that import.

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

No need to replenish! They are thriving in the wild.

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Do you have documentation on this? Has there been a study done?

First of all, let me start off by saying I don't know much about Ball Pythons in the wild nor do I know much about their population.

What I do know, is that collecting/exporting doesn't necessarily have a big impact on the ecosystem, but it has an impact nonetheless. Plus, do you like the idea of your BPs being bred in pits and farms?

Later, Matt

I'm still not sure, though. As far as I can tell, there hasn't been any field work done on this (wouldn't that be a wicked fun job? Walk through the forest and count the ball pythons.) I was researching it a little bit yesterday and from what I found it seemed as though ball pythons are listed as 'not concerned' which means there's plenty of them, but that figure is based on how many are around in general, not how many are in the natural habitat. I read in two or three places that they're 'vulnerable' in the wild and that freaked me out a bit and lead me to posting here. I'll see if I can find the places that said they were vulnerable.

This topic is covered in the VPI Pythons of the World Vol 2: Ball Pythons.
http://www.vpi.com/pythons_of_the_world_vol_2_0

You can also check out this book and video series:
http://www.stevegorzulapresents.com/

NERD's book and website also bring up this very issue:
http://www.newenglandreptile.com/CareBall.html

All in all in some countries ball pythons are collected with care and done responsibly, in others there is little regard to how many are collected.

Bottom line though is, don't worry about. Far more are probably killed for meat and leather than are collected for the pet trade. Besides that, if they banned the import of ball pythons into this country then all those pythons will just end up in Asia as food. They will be caught and sold no matter what, whether it's as pets or food.

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Originally Posted by panthercz

This topic is covered in the VPI Pythons of the World Vol 2: Ball Pythons.
http://www.vpi.com/pythons_of_the_world_vol_2_0

You can also check out this book and video series:
http://www.stevegorzulapresents.com/

NERD's book and website also bring up this very issue:
http://www.newenglandreptile.com/CareBall.html

All in all in some countries ball pythons are collected with care and done responsibly, in others there is little regard to how many are collected.

Bottom line though is, don't worry about. Far more are probably killed for meat and leather than are collected for the pet trade. Besides that, if they banned the import of ball pythons into this country then all those pythons will just end up in Asia as food. They will be caught and sold no matter what, whether it's as pets or food.

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id also like to add that not as many wild caught are imported most are farmed or ranched babies and some are even captive bred. if your interested in the actual cites quotas check here http://www.cites.org/eng/resources/quotas/index.shtml

Not to mention all the new morphs that are showing up each year. Some are actual WC, but a lot are breed in the CH facilities.

Anyone gonna say "Oh there's no new morphs coming in anymore"? Look here, on KS forums, on most BP forums, and you'll see people with new stuff every year. The latest has been the extra speckledy ones, that turned into the "Camo" and "Paint" balls. Calicos came in not that long ago, and check out the super calicos now. Shoot.. even YBs weren't all that long ago.

The studies I've seen(I believe referanced above) say ball pythons are mostly thriving. You have to understand that wild areas in africa are being turned to farmland, which increases rodent populations, while removing most large predetors. This makes an ideal place for ball python populations. Too small to be considered a real threat, and valuable as either food, leather or exports, Ball pythons should not be considered threatened in most areas of Africa.

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Originally Posted by panthercz

This topic is covered in the VPI Pythons of the World Vol 2: Ball Pythons.
http://www.vpi.com/pythons_of_the_world_vol_2_0

You can also check out this book and video series:
http://www.stevegorzulapresents.com/

NERD's book and website also bring up this very issue:
http://www.newenglandreptile.com/CareBall.html

All in all in some countries ball pythons are collected with care and done responsibly, in others there is little regard to how many are collected.

Bottom line though is, don't worry about. Far more are probably killed for meat and leather than are collected for the pet trade. Besides that, if they banned the import of ball pythons into this country then all those pythons will just end up in Asia as food. They will be caught and sold no matter what, whether it's as pets or food.

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Thanks so much for the references. I've been meaning to get those books, maybe I will ask somebody for it next Christmas. But I certainly wasn't suggesting we should ban the importation of pythons, I would never want that. I was just curious is all. :D