Fire Mojave

Any piscs of one?

These are some of my hatchling Sulfur Mojaves, which will be very close to what a Fire Mojave will look like, since Sulfur and Fires both produce a Black Eyed Lucy. The last two snakes are no longer my snakes:)

Dave


http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...l/IMGP3028.jpg 09 Hatchling male


http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...l/IMGP3030.jpg 09 male


http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...l/IMGP2449.jpg 08 female along with Sulfur Spider.


http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...DSC_0181-1.jpg 08 male.

pretty sure the sulfur/fire have been proven to be the same genetics. just different line?

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Originally Posted by takagari

pretty sure the sulfur/fire have been proven to be the same genetics. just different line?

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Uh oh, here we go again....

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Originally Posted by twistedtails

Uh oh, here we go again....

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lol

Here's a thread with some pics and info on the sulfur.

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ghlight=sulfur

Not the best pick but here is my fire mojave

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...1001/018-2.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...1001/026-2.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by takagari

pretty sure the sulfur/fire have been proven to be the same genetics. just different line?

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I see them as different morphs. The combos they have in common look different -- Sulfur appears to be higher contrast and does not "lighten" other morph in the breeding OVERALL as much as Fire seems to.

Also, the Super looks like it might have some differences based on the high yellow-orange animal the Dave/Emberball produced recently -- SMOKIN.

I like both morphs, but I feel they do different stuff. As always -- just an opinion -- does not make it fact. :colbert: ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EmberBall

These are some of my hatchling Sulfur Mojaves, which will be very close to what a Fire Mojave will look like, since Sulfur and Fires both produce a Black Eyed Lucy. The last two snakes are no longer my snakes:)

Dave


http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...l/IMGP3028.jpg 09 Hatchling male


http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...l/IMGP3030.jpg 09 male


http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...l/IMGP2449.jpg 08 female along with Sulfur Spider.


http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...DSC_0181-1.jpg 08 male.

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Great pics and example!

Daniel

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Originally Posted by Bill Buchman

I see them as different morphs. The combos they have in common look different -- Sulfur appears to be higher contrast and does not "lighten" other morph in the breeding OVERALL as much as Fire seems to.

Also, the Super looks like it might have some differences based on the high yellow-orange animal the Dave/Emberball produced recently -- SMOKIN.

I like both morphs, but I feel they do different stuff. As always -- just an opinion -- does not make it fact. :colbert: ;)

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I had asked a big breeder in the usa, and he confirmed they were the same. not sure if they did a firexsulfur and got a bel? who knows.

Seems they are just another line of the fire, I still want one, you are right they seem like a bit nicer line though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by takagari

I had asked a big breeder in the usa, and he confirmed they were the same. not sure if they did a firexsulfur and got a bel? who knows.

Seems they are just another line of the fire, I still want one, you are right they seem like a bit nicer line though.

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Valid opinion -- the same morph. :)

I happen to be from the camp of -- just because they are compatible -- it does not necessarily follow the EXACTLY the SAME morph.

I also believe in MORE base morph names being CLEANER/LESS COMPLICATED/ANTI-INCENDIARY rather than LESS of each.

I believe that, because I have followed no less than 10 threads on any number of forums "discussing/arguing" the merit, compatibility, origin, visual markers, super-similarity, influence on established morphs in produced combos, etc. of two "similar morphs". Many of those discussions became HIGHLY COMBATIVE -- the above 2 morphs were among the MOST HEATED of those debates!!!!

I would add, that I find it very easy/curious for folks NOT working, proving, risking, spending time, and indeed -- MONEY with a captive hatched animal(s) -- to form STRONG opinions that new PROVEN animal should carry the name of an existing morph that another breeder took the risk to spend his time, energy, etc. proving. I would respectfully submit that it is NOT your call/decision to make.


The above are my opinions -- DOES NOT THEM FACT!!!! :colbert:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by takagari

I had asked a big breeder in the usa, and he confirmed they were the same. not sure if they did a firexsulfur and got a bel? who knows.

Seems they are just another line of the fire, I still want one, you are right they seem like a bit nicer line though.

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That would be like saying Mojaves, Lessers, and Butters are all the same morph because they can all produce BluEL.

However they are accepted as being different morphs within the same BluEL complex.

I look at sulfurs and fires the same way as lessers and butters. Comparing the sulfurs to the fires I am hatching the sulfurs seem to be slightly darker. The yellows in my fires is yellow, but in sulfurs it seems to be more of an orange yellow.

As far as I know a fire x sulfur breeding has not been done yet. I can see some differences in them that I would not say they are the same, but would agree on a different line. Like Bill said even some of the crosses have a different look to them and I do agree with that.

but does one morph being a different shade of a color make it different?

i mean we got tons of lines of pastels, but i think we all agree thats the same morph and they look very different, more so than a fire vs sulfur.

butter vs lesser, black pastel vs cinny pastel, fire vs sulfur, why can't there be different shades of a morph? are pastels the only ones its ok to be different? should high white spiders be called a different morph than no white spiders since theres a different color? should more orange tinted pinstripes be called a different morph than just your normal brown pinstripe?

i guess until ball python's DNA is mapped, this debate will never be over.

There is alot more that goes into it that just saying hey, my new snake looks like a Fire, and calling it a Fire. I think this topic has been hashed and rehashed to death, but if you look up Sulfur on here, one of the pages has all the reasoning on it, behind the name and all.

Dave