Snake didn't eat... What do I do with the live rat pup?

Title says it all. Unfortunately I got a really cute rat pup, and we're just looking at it like "Hm.. Well what now?" Should I just keep it around til I want to try and feed her next? And if so, what do they eat? The pup has barely opened its eyes.

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Originally Posted by Elise.m

Title says it all. Unfortunately I got a really cute rat pup, and we're just looking at it like "Hm.. Well what now?" Should I just keep it around til I want to try and feed her next? And if so, what do they eat? The pup has barely opened its eyes.

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you could also freeze it and try f/t with the snake! I am unsure of the age or weight of the snake but it sounds to be very small so you might have a hard time getting it to eat f/t unless you have gotten it to before or the previous owner had. And if it is too young and was taken from the mother and not weaned yet it will prolly die because it was still on the mothers milk. But in any case you can try dog food or something of the sort rats will pretty much eat anything.

Yeah, the snake is pretty small. I was told she's a month old. She looks to be a little on the thin side, so we tried feeding her after 4 days of being in our care. What would you think about leaving it in the tank over night and seeing it it's gone in the morning?

So are you reccomending to freeze a live rat pup? That's awesome! Well, not really but hey, great advice.

What you could do is search www.google.com for what rat pups eat-and go from there.

I would not reccomend leaving any live prey item unattended with your snake. Although if they do not have teeth it would be worth a try.

Well right about now freezing it is one of my options. It's either it starves to death (That's if it's not weaned, I have no idea.), cuz I'm not gonna offer food again for another 5 days, or it freezes to death. Either is horrible, and I hate to do it. I'm sure the guy I bought it from wouldn't be that understanding.

It does not hurt to try although in your situation it may be your only option. Just hope it does not have to suffer for very long. (Deep Freeze)

Hey I have a month old hatchling that didnt eat the 2 rat fuzzies that I had bought her. I left them in with her for the past day and a half...she's now in her hide with two little bulges in her tummy. Just leave it in there....

Rather than let it die (slowly) in the freezer, you could just kill the rat instantaneously and then toss it in the freezer if that's what you choose to do. Either place it in a bag and give it a good whack on something solid, or place a ruler (or other flat object) behind the rats head, and with the rat lying on a table or something, pull up sharply on the tail (breaking the rats neck/spinal cord). :gj:

If it barely opened its eyes or still has closed eyes, it's probably not going to hurt your snake. Just leave it, it'll eat.

If the pup doesn't get it's mother's milk, it will eventually die in a few days. Rat pups cannot survive when they are that young, especially when their eyes are still closed. I was told this because my Dumeril's boa had a f/t mice problem (wouldn't take it.. 2 months of trying!) and so I gave her a rat pup and she took it that night :]
How were you trying to feed your snake? How I got my boa to eat the rat pup was that I put the pup in the enclosure by the snake, turned off ALL of the lights in the room, and closed the door. Every hour I would check, and it took the boa a few hours to take it (all snakes are different, so youre's may take less time or more time). Good luck!

this is the exact question i asked the guy who sold me live hopper mice... HAHA he showed me how to kill a mouse ><;.... there was NO way i had the backbone to do that LAWL. im so glad my snakes ate teh hoppers....
nooo way....


oh ya, but he basically said put 2 fingers on the back of the head, and 2 fingers at the base of the tail, and pull.... its instant, and its humane... i just cannot do it =D :colbert:

Put it in a pillow case and smash it on the floor..... You wont see what you are doing so it takes that i just killed something feeling away a lil bit....lol

With a rat that small though, I would just hit it in the head with a spoon and put in a sandwich bag then freeze.... or flush it down the toilet. Think about it, you arent losing any money really cuz if the snake had ate, the rat would be gone.....just offer a fresh one next week. Unless of course u want to try to care for the thing......

Hi,

I'd just like to point out to all the people who say "bash it against a wall" that doing so is animal abuse and could result in you going to court and losing the right to keep any animals at all.

Keep it humane or keep it to yourself.


dr del

I had a rat pup that my snake refused to eat once. I bought some soy based infant formula at the grocery store and fed it. I kept the rat pup alive long enough for my snake to eat it at his next scheduled feeding. The soy based infant formula was recommended by a website that I found online on how to care for orphaned rats. By no means should you freeze or whack the rat pup. That is just inhumane. You need to be prepared to deal with the fact that your snake may not always eat a meal and that you may be stuck with a live rat or mouse. Good Luck to you.

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Originally Posted by dr del

I'd just like to point out to all the people who say "bash it against a wall" that doing so is animal abuse and could result in you going to court and losing the right to keep any animals at all.

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No kidding? I cant believe that, what about mouse traps and such? I dont see the difference. Glue traps are the worst, then you have to drown the thing or let it suffer for real and just throw it out to die from either lack of water or most likely suffocation due to the glue ending up in the nasal cavity and the mouth being glued shut from trying to get off the pad........ Would it be ok if you bought a mouse trap and put the mouse and trap in an enclosure together prior to feeding? Im just wondering because Ive never heard anyone say that before.

On a side note.....I could positively say without a doubt, that I would rather drive my motorcycle into a wall at 100 mph than to die not being able to breathe while my bones are being crushed. I feel I am being humane to the dirty little creatures......

Hi,

The difference being one is a wild animal classed as vermin which you are legally allowed to kill and the other is an animal you own classed as a pet which you are legally obliged to take care of and treat well.

And I'd rather I was the first person explaining that to you rather than a judge or animal welfare officer. :rolleyes:


dr del

I see, so i need to let it escape first for a few days...:) Guess F/T is the way to go. I have always prekilled just because I have this notion that a thawed out dead animal is going to smell horrid..... Im probably wrong on that but I have a mental block

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Originally Posted by STEW

I see, so i need to let it escape first for a few days...:) Guess F/T is the way to go. I have always prekilled just because I have this notion that a thawed out dead animal is going to smell horrid..... Im probably wrong on that but I have a mental block

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Honestly, I can't smell my thawed mice at all. As long as you freeze it as soon as it's dead, you won't have to worry about the smell.

Thanks for all the suggestions! I didn't leave it in overnight. I don't think she would have eaten. She's been home since Saturday, the breeder told us to try feeding her in 2-3 days. Which I should have known to wait 7, but we decided to try.

When he was showing us the snake, she hissed at him about 3 times when he picked her up and was just turning her around so we could see her. My BF had a gut feeling that she might be a picky one that would give us trouble, but didn't share that feeling with me. Does anyone think this might be the case? I didn't ask for a feeding record cuz he said "Well we have so many babies we can't keep track" So I'm gonna call today and ask again in case another employee knows. After all, she was the last lemon pastel, you'd think someone would remember.

It worries me that the breeder said they have too many babies to keep track of when everyone eats. I know personally that there are great breeders who keep thousands of snakes, and they have cards on the front of the snakes tubs, which they can add info about eating, shedding, all that stuff. I dont think that its a good excuse to say you have too many to keep track, because thats part of breeding snakes is taking proper care of them. Good luck getting this one to eat...

Its irresponsible for them to not keep a feeding log. A piece of paper only takes a couple seconds to put a few check marks on. When a snake is sold, the feeding log should be given to the customer with the snake. There is no excuse for a breeder not doing this.
Its not really possible for you to tell if you have a picky snake yet. From your story, I've gathered that she is still very young and is still scared of humans. This being the case I'm sure she is stressed out from being moved and handled, so I doubt she would want to eat after only 2-3 days. Wait a full week, then try to feed her the thawed rat pup again.

Yeah, it worries me too, and that's why I'm gonna call him and ask again. I just looked him up on Fauna and everyone has posted good reviews about him... I'm just worried I may have gotten a snake at a time where he was too busy to pay attention to it. He did say she's eaten, but didn't go further than that. No shedding records either.

In his defense, they are hatching alot of babies atm. And I believe he only has 3 other people helping him out. So it might be something that just slipped, hopefully when I call him (He opens at 11:00am pst) He'll be able to give me a little more information about this cutie.

What ever happened to the rat pup? I sincerely hope that you did not just let it starve to death. Starvation has to be one of the worst ways to die, imo.. It can't be legal and humane to do that. I cannot imagine someone letting a puppy or ktiten starve todeath.. and I don't see how it would be any less cruel to let a rat pup do the same. Gas it.. freezing a mammal is not a humane method of euthanization.

Everyone who feeds live, should either know how to, and be prepared to, feed and care for live prey that is refused.. or be equipped to humanely euthanize the prey animal if the snake refuses. Just my 0.02.

Unfortunately I had no other option but to freeze it. I didn't have anything to gas it with. Yes, I feel terrible for doing it, and no, I do not need to be criticized over it. This was my first live feeding ever, I wasn't totally prepared, I thought she would be hungry since like I said in one my previous posts, she looks kinds thin. It's a part of life, I had to make due with what I had.

For the record though: My BF and I plan on doing pre-killed in the future from now on.

And Just an FYI when I told you to freeze it I didn't mean to throw it in alive as others have interpreted! I left the uthanizing part out for you to use at your descretion!!! Alot of ppl choose to do it in different ways so I just left it out on purpose! I hoped you were knowledgable enough to know not to throw a live rat in the freezer. Just figured I would throw that out there!

And this is why I left out what happened to the rat pup... Look, I already said I do not need to be critized over this. End of story. I did what I had to do. I don't feel good about it, and neither does my BF. We made a mistake, we learned from it, and we learned what to do in the future. Btw Blong, we didn't freeze it just on your suggestion, so don't take offense.

The morale: I learned my lesson, move on please, nothing to see.

Don't worry, I've frozen live pinkies before.

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Originally Posted by Elise.m

And this is why I left out what happened to the rat pup... Look, I already said I do not need to be critized over this. End of story. I did what I had to do. I don't feel good about it, and neither does my BF. We made a mistake, we learned from it, and we learned what to do in the future. Btw Blong, we didn't freeze it just on your suggestion, so don't take offense.

The morale: I learned my lesson, move on please, nothing to see.

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No offense taken! And I was not pointing my last post to you in anyway! I would have done what I had to do myself! It was for the other ppl that assume what I meant! As long as you knew that was all I cared about! So I hope all goes well for you and the lil snakey! LOL Enjoy it they are fun to keep!

Did you at least kill it first? I woulda............
Im not going to criticize you either way because I view feeder rats as objects rather than living creatures or I wouldnt be able to kill them..... If your snake does end up eating it once its thawed out then you should just buy frozen feeders, they are cheaper. I never even took into account what Dr. Del posted even though I think it would be pretty hard to get caught up in that legal issue....... Im going to buy a frozen one and see what my snake does with it. It would be easier to have a bulk load in the freezer than having to go to the pet store every week.... Now if I can just get my Chameleon to eat the crickets in a can, talk about a hard animal to get to eat pre killed prey items........

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Originally Posted by BLong7211

No offense taken! And I was not pointing my last post to you in anyway! I would have done what I had to do myself! It was for the other ppl that assume what I meant! As long as you knew that was all I cared about! So I hope all goes well for you and the lil snakey! LOL Enjoy it they are fun to keep!

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Thanks. I feel terrible, but I guess I had to learn in some way. And I know probly lots of people on here think I'm irresponsible for doing what I did, but like I said I had no other resources. From now on, we will definitely be prepared in what I have to do, and hopefully this little snake will get on board with us. And I checked his website, turns out he gave me a weanling when I asked for a pup... I hate being new at things.:rage:

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Originally Posted by STEW

Did you at least kill it first? I woulda............
Im not going to criticize you either way because I view feeder rats as objects rather than living creatures or I wouldnt be able to kill them..... If your snake does end up eating it once its thawed out then you should just buy frozen feeders, they are cheaper. I never even took into account what Dr. Del posted even though I think it would be pretty hard to get caught up in that legal issue....... Im going to buy a frozen one and see what my snake does with it. It would be easier to have a bulk load in the freezer than having to go to the pet store every week.... Now if I can just get my Chameleon to eat the crickets in a can, talk about a hard animal to get to eat pre killed prey items........

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We didn't know the about the head-n-tail thing, unfortunately I turned off my comp by the time someone had replied with that. I'm hoping she'll eat this f/t rat pup in a week, if she does then cool, if she doesn't then I'll be making my own little gas chamber. I really thought the feeding part would be alot easier...

I am in no way going to criticize you for what you did. I am also not saying that I agree with the way you handled the live rat pup. Just be prepared in the future that if your snake only chooses to eat live that you need to be prepared to keep a live animal. I'm sure your snake would have eventually eaten the rat pup. I always have an enclosure and extra food on hand just in case my snake decides to skip a feeding, which he frequently does. I just keep the rat or mouse alive for his next feeding. All animals deserve to be treated with repsect, even the live feeders that our snakes eat.

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Originally Posted by Elise.m

We didn't know the about the head-n-tail thing, unfortunately I turned off my comp by the time someone had replied with that. I'm hoping she'll eat this f/t rat pup in a week, if she does then cool, if she doesn't then I'll be making my own little gas chamber. I really thought the feeding part would be alot easier...

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Here are some resources for ya:
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=33850
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=55509

The dry ice chamber is exactly what I was planning on doing in the near future. I've read over that forums before and thought it looked easy and humane. I was actually at a store that sold dry ice yesterday before the feeding happened... I should have picked some up just in case. Oh well, hind sight is always 20/20.

Im just gonna stick with you shouldve left it in there. You never know what your hatchling is going to do once you go to bed and everything has shut down for the night. Now youre gonna have to figure out how to get your little one to eat F/T or P/K. usually best to get a steady live schedule going before you start dealing with refusals at feedings. good luck no matter what.

you could always buy a boa:D

With my uneaten mouse (my snake went into shed), I just threw it outside. Success!

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Originally Posted by abuja

With my uneaten mouse (my snake went into shed), I just threw it outside. Success!

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...A live mouse?

Just got off the phone with the breeder. He said the snake has only eaten twice, and they do not keep records. She was born early this month. She last ate on Thursday, which I didn't know the last day she ate, so now I'm not worried as to why she didn't eat. Just in case anyone wanted an update :)

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Originally Posted by abuja

With my uneaten mouse (my snake went into shed), I just threw it outside. Success!

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The mice and rats we feed our snakes are domesticated animals. They have been bred in captivity for generations to get certain traits, behaviours and colorations. They are as different from wild rats/mice as our dogs are from wolves. Please reconsider before turning a domesticated animal outside to fend for itself, it will not have the skills to do so.

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Originally Posted by cobweb2000

The mice and rats we feed our snakes are domesticated animals. They have been bred in captivity for generations to get certain traits, behaviours and colorations. They are as different from wild rats/mice as our dogs are from wolves. Please reconsider before turning a domesticated animal outside to fend for itself, it will not have the skills to do so.

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The mouse's two fates were #1 Death by Snake #2 Death by other outside Predator. It was gonna die anyways. Also, my dad sure as heck was not keeping a mouse in the house overnight!

Why would you throw a mouse outside??!! You should have just held on to it until the next feeding. You could have at least humanely euthanized it if you didn't want to keep it. I just don't get why you would throw a defenseless creature outside. I don't understand people that have snakes and are not willing to take responsibility for the live feeders that do not get eaten. Why is it so hard to keep a feeder alive until the next feeding day or at least to properly euthanize it?

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Originally Posted by python1024

Why would you throw a mouse outside??!! You should have just held on to it until the next feeding. You could have at least humanely euthanized it if you didn't want to keep it. I just don't get why you would throw a defenseless creature outside. I don't understand people that have snakes and are not willing to take responsibility for the live feeders that do not get eaten. Why is it so hard to keep a feeder alive until the next feeding day or at least to properly euthanize it?

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In my case, I didn't have the resources to keep it or humanly euthanize it. Some people make mistakes. Deal with it, hope they learned their lesson and move on please. You seem to be very disturbed by this thread, I would suggest not reading it anymore.

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Originally Posted by Elise.m

In my case, I didn't have the resources to keep it or humanly euthanize it. Some people make mistakes. Deal with it, hope they learned their lesson and move on please. You seem to be very disturbed by this thread, I would suggest not reading it anymore.

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You had a hopefully isolated incident and will be better prepared the next time you need to deal with a live feeder (even better if your snake eats and you don't need to worry about it :) ). I have a feeling Abuja does not see why what he/she did was not the best option.

But I fully agree with Python1024; part of our responsibility of being snake owners are dealing with the feeders in a responsible and humane manner.

I mentioned this in another post, but I keep pet rats and work with a rat rescue so I am on a lot of forums/groups for people who own mice/rats/rabbits/gerbils--many of these people would have been affected by HR699. A very large percentage of all individual believe that people only own snakes because they enjoy seeing a small animal get killed. They are as afraid of snake owners as they are of the snakes themselves, if we continue to act like feeders are inanimate objects that have no right to be treated with a modicum of humanity, do you blame those people for not standing up with us to keep all exotic pets legal?

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Originally Posted by cobweb2000

You had a hopefully isolated incident and will be better prepared the next time you need to deal with a live feeder (even better if your snake eats and you don't need to worry about it :) ). I have a feeling Abuja does not see why what he/she did was not the best option.

But I fully agree with Python1024; part of our responsibility of being snake owners are dealing with the feeders in a responsible and humane manner.

I mentioned this in another post, but I keep pet rats and work with a rat rescue so I am on a lot of forums/groups for people who own mice/rats/rabbits/gerbils--many of these people would have been affected by HR699. A very large percentage of all individual believe that people only own snakes because they enjoy seeing a small animal get killed. They are as afraid of snake owners as they are of the snakes themselves, if we continue to act like feeders are inanimate objects that have no right to be treated with a modicum of humanity, do you blame those people for not standing up with us to keep all exotic pets legal?

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I disagree, because that mouse's life span is about 2 years anyways. I understand where you're coming from, but we don't have dry ice, nor the will to care for it until my snake had shed, so the MOST humane thing to do was actually release him! Yeah, he was probably killed, but he would have been anyways! The venom from another snake or a bite from a wild animal killed it quicker than a ball python's constriction would have.

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

Everyone who feeds live, should either know how to, and be prepared to, feed and care for live prey that is refused.. or be equipped to humanely euthanize the prey animal if the snake refuses. Just my 0.02.

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I agree... I've been stuck with live prey before, which is why I bought 2 critter keepers and researched what they eat. One of the rat pups was so cute, I actually ended up keeping him - then I got him a friend, and that same night my roommate's dog broke the cage open & ate the original pup. :( That left us stuck with the other rat, which I ended up giving to a friend (as a pet).

Aside from that one occasion, I just keep them alive until the snake is ready to eat. We had two rejected mice when Delilah was in shed, and kept them in the critter keeper for a few days... rats and mice will eat basically anything, but I usually offer things like cereal, fruit and bread. Rat pups are a different story, however, and I actually had to hand-feed baby formula (with a syringe) to that one little guy. So yes, if you will be feeding live, you should have a back-up plan for the leftovers - it happens more often than you think! As for freezing the rat, you did what you had to, and I won't judge you for it. ;)

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Originally Posted by CoolioTiffany

If the pup doesn't get it's mother's milk, it will eventually die in a few days. Rat pups cannot survive when they are that young, especially when their eyes are still closed.

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I managed to keep that one rat pup alive, but it wasn't easy! I got Similac baby formula and hand-fed him with a syringe, 4-5 times a day until he opened his eyes. Luckily that happened in less than 2 days, and then I moved him onto a mushed cereal/formula mixture. He was sooooo cute... :(

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

What ever happened to the rat pup? I sincerely hope that you did not just let it starve to death. Starvation has to be one of the worst ways to die, imo.. It can't be legal and humane to do that. I cannot imagine someone letting a puppy or ktiten starve todeath.. and I don't see how it would be any less cruel to let a rat pup do the same. Gas it.. freezing a mammal is not a humane method of euthanization.

Everyone who feeds live, should either know how to, and be prepared to, feed and care for live prey that is refused.. or be equipped to humanely euthanize the prey animal if the snake refuses. Just my 0.02.

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Agree 1000%.

I definitely learned my lesson, and will be more prepared. Since learning that our snake normally eats on Thursdays (One of the employees had told me either Tuesday or Wednesday, I can't remember which day) and the fact I tried to feed her on a Tuesday, helps alot. If I had known that in the first place, I wouldn't have even bothered buying a rat pup! I didn't get around to it today (Lazy day), but I will be creating a little holder tank for the critters.