PAYPAL fees...

So Im in the process of completing a purchase of a couple snakes off this one guy. I pay him this morning when I said will as I do with all people I deal with. Everything is good, blah blah, and this afternoon he texts me and says that I havent covered the Paypal fees. I say WHAT? I cover YOUR paypal fees? So you want me to send you 680 instead of 660 and you incur MORE fees? Or what? Anyway long story short my wife wasnt having it so I asked for a refund and in turn am getting the snakes for the original price of 660. My question is this:

How many of you have your buyer pay your paypal fees that you incur for credit card transactions? Is it an accepted and known practice to chrage your buyer for your paypal fees?

Out of 4 snakes that I have purchased online so far, I havent had to add additional money for paypal fees. From everything Ive ever sold on eBay, Ive incurred the expense of paypal transaction. So what gives?

I usually absorb the fees in the cost of the animals but I have added fees onto payment plans cause hell 4 payments of 500 bucks each can hit hard so I throw it in but I've never been asked to pay fees it's actually against the TOS of Paypal

They paypal fees are a cost of doing business, in my opinion. It sucks, yes, but think of how many more sales the added convenience offers. If you do more sales, then the 3% fees work out in the end. Not to mention, Paypal offers some measure of security for both buyer and seller.

JonV

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Royal Morphz

I usually absorb the fees in the cost of the animals but I have added fees onto payment plans cause hell 4 payments of 500 bucks each can hit hard so I throw it in but I've never been asked to pay fees it's actually against the TOS of Paypal

---

I'm confused at what your saying. So it's against the TOS for them to ask you to pay the fees?

I never even realized there was fees. I suppose they were just absorbed by my sellers through the prices though.

From a purely marketing/customer satisfaction point of view, sellers should build the fees into their prices so that they end up with the price they want.

There are so many breeders to purchase from that buyers don't want to be hassled, or feel that they are not getting a good deal or a fair shake. In short, buyers always want to feel they got the best deal they could.

If I were an active seller I would be ultra competitive with prices and build the cost of shipping and fees into the price so that they buyer has a good experience and does not feel like they are getting nickeled and dime'd to death.

BrandonsBalls.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Royal Morphz

I usually absorb the fees in the cost of the animals but I have added fees onto payment plans cause hell 4 payments of 500 bucks each can hit hard so I throw it in but I've never been asked to pay fees it's actually against the TOS of Paypal

---

1 payment of 2000 or 4 payments of 500 bucks each at Paypals 3% fee means you lose 60 bucks...I dont understand. You pay the same in fees either way...why would you charge extra on a payment plan? Thats kind of jacked up dude.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nevohraalnavnoj

They paypal fees are a cost of doing business, in my opinion. It sucks, yes, but think of how many more sales the added convenience offers. If you do more sales, then the 3% fees work out in the end. Not to mention, Paypal offers some measure of security for both buyer and seller.

JonV

---

I agree...if you accept PayPal you accept the cost, right?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BrandonsBalls

From a purely marketing/customer satisfaction point of view, sellers should build the fees into their prices so that they end up with the price they want.

There are so many breeders to purchase from that buyers don't want to be hassled, or feel that they are not getting a good deal or a fair shake. In short, buyers always want to feel they got the best deal they could.

If I were an active seller I would be ultra competitive with prices and build the cost of shipping and fees into the price so that they buyer has a good experience and does not feel like they are getting nickeled and dime'd to death.

BrandonsBalls.

---

I am getting an amazing deal. I just dont think that I should be contacted after I already PAID the asking price to cover fees. No? AM I CRAZY?!:banana:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pavlovk1025

1 payment of 2000 or 4 payments of 500 bucks each at Paypals 3% fee means you lose 60 bucks...I dont understand. You pay the same in fees either way...why would you charge extra on a payment plan? Thats kind of jacked up dude.



I agree...if you accept PayPal you accept the cost, right?



I am getting an amazing deal. I just dont think that I should be contacted after I already PAID the asking price to cover fees. No? AM I CRAZY?!:banana:

---

Agreed, before the fact, all things should be disclosed, after the fact, thats just bad business on the part of the seller.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BrandonsBalls

Agreed, before the fact, all things should be disclosed, after the fact, thats just bad business on the part of the seller.

---

Thats what I thought. I told him we should split the fee if hes so worried about it and Id pay 10 but my wife said HELL NO, mainly cause the Albino was for her, so I asked for a refund and he asked me if 10 bucks were worth waiting a couple days for his bank to transfer the funds back, and I asked him if 20 bucks were worth a sale. Snakes should be here Friday...if theyre not its a dispute and a refund.

I do get why he wants me to cover them, hes selling me two awesome snakes for the price of what one costs...but he shoudlve thought about it before he dropped his price to what it ended up at.

Paypal terms of service:

4.5 No Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge for non-PayPal transactions. Nothing in this Agreement is intended to affect the legal right of a merchant in the UK to impose a surcharge for a debit or credit card transaction under the Credit Cards (Price Discrimination) Order 1990.

In my opinion, any seller who doesn't consider the fees beforehand and doesn't price their animals accordingly and then asks me to cover the fees is someone I would never do business with. It's an amateur move. There are enough professional breeders in this hobby to buy from that don't pull crap like that.

I do pay the fees sometimes. On occasion, I have some extra $$ in my account as opposed to in my wallet, so I will offer to pay the fees if they take the paypal cash instead. It saves me a few days wait, no trips to the post office etc. but if someone told me I had to pay them after we agreed on a price and established paypal would be the preferred method of payment, then no way. If you take paypal, you know that fees are incurred, so as a seller you should already have that in mind when you sell the snake, car, comic book, fishing rod or whatever.

I always pay the fees, unless the buyer wants me to come down a lot on what I am asking, but I always make the deal up front. For example, I will sell for $XXX.XX if you cover the fees and shipping. I would not cover the fees unless the deal was for you to cover the fees up front.

That sounds about right to me. I sold Blackberry's on eBay before and I never adjusted for fees, just took that hit as an understanding that PayPal provides a service to get me my money ASAP and they take a cut. Middleman gets a cut. Amateur move it may be but to say that other people do the same is just borderline ridiculous. Im not putting anyone on blast YET, but if my animals arent here Friday Im dropping names and filing disputes. I didnt even know how to respond when I read the text message and email about the fees from the dude. Just hope the animals get here safe. Lesson learned I suppose.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pavlovk1025

Im not putting anyone on blast YET, but if my animals arent here Friday Im dropping names and filing disputes. I didnt even know how to respond when I read the text message and email about the fees from the dude. Just hope the animals get here safe. Lesson learned I suppose.

---

Good luck. It does sound a little shady do me that he would request you pay the fees after-the-fact...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wh00h0069

Good luck. It does sound a little shady do me that he would request you pay the fees after-the-fact...

---

I agree. I checked him on BOI and he turned up good...and the deal was insanse to pass up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pavlovk1025

I agree. I checked him on BOI and he turned up good...and the deal was insanse to pass up.

---

Good, then I am sure everything will turn out ok. I can't wait to see pics...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wh00h0069

Good, then I am sure everything will turn out ok. I can't wait to see pics...

---

Cross your fingers for me dude, your spider girl's 2011 hubby is in peril lol.

Yep we eat the fee's it sucks but it part of the gig..

You do know that if your seller sends you a box with nothing in it and you receive that box, as far as paypal is concerned, you have successfully completed your transaction.

They do NOT refund on animals.

If your seller checked out OK, then he probably is but don't EVER think paypal is on your side whether you're a buyer or a seller if live animals are involved.

True enough Wes. Paypal has always been a little shady and suspect when it comes to dispute resolution. The problem is that they are the only game in town (right now). They are the most accepted for online payments. I need to look at Google Checkout since I saw some people mentioned it. I certainly don't want to set up a CC merchant account and don't want to have people sending me checks and money orders. I would rather eat some cost if it gets the buyer to pay instantly with Paypal and let me move on with my life. :)

As a future seller this is something I never considered was the buyers option. I planned to just eat the fee as a cost of doing business. I have been an ebayer for many years and I always accounted for the fees when I set my sale price.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jglass38

True enough Wes. Paypal has always been a little shady and suspect when it comes to dispute resolution. The problem is that they are the only game in town (right now). They are the most accepted for online payments. I need to look at Google Checkout since I saw some people mentioned it. I certainly don't want to set up a CC merchant account and don't want to have people sending me checks and money orders. I would rather eat some cost if it gets the buyer to pay instantly with Paypal and let me move on with my life. :)

---

As a small time breeder/hobbyist cc machine seems like an unlikely acquisition. And personal checks and money orders I don't understand as long as you allow time for the checks to clear before releasing the snake.

In my opinion, it would be ordinary for the seller to just factor the paypal fees into his selling price and not mention them at all to the buyer. Anyone that wants to add the fees in after the deal was made is being greedy in my opinion. If you are signed up with paypal where they have access to one of your bank accounts that paypal can put money in and take it out you have no recourse in the situation that Wes described. But if you are signed up just to make purchases with a credit and ignore their friendly request to "raise your purchasing limit, add a bank account routing number :)" your credit card card issuer will tell paypal to go jump in the lake in the event of a problem and paypal has no recourse. Even you people that need to allow bank access as a seller of merchandise should have a second paypal account (perhaps in a spouses name) without bank access just to make purchases with. You would then not lose your right under the law to place any purchase in dispute.You would retain control of the money and would not be under paypal's thumb.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by derrabe

As a small time breeder/hobbyist cc machine seems like an unlikely acquisition. And personal checks and money orders I don't understand as long as you allow time for the checks to clear before releasing the snake.

---

I agree that a CC machine is not a good alternative. I use Paypal because I don't want to setup a merchant account, haven't found a better alternative, and don't want to accept checks or money orders unless I have to. As far as checks/money orders, the scenario that comes into play is this. A customer agrees to buy an animal. They tell me they can only pay by check/money order. I put the animal on hold (and turn down any further sales requests). Now the waiting game starts. It's 4 days and I haven't received the mail. I email them. 2 days later they get back to me and say something happened and it didn't get mailed until the previous day. Now the waiting starts again. It could be 2 weeks before I either get the mail or the email saying they don't want to do the sale. I could have had the animal sold and shipped in that time. Just my 2 cents on why I don't like to do snail mail payments.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jglass38

I agree that a CC machine is not a good alternative. I use Paypal because I don't want to setup a merchant account, haven't found a better alternative, and don't want to accept checks or money orders unless I have to. As far as checks/money orders, the scenario that comes into play is this. A customer agrees to buy an animal. They tell me they can only pay by check/money order. I put the animal on hold (and turn down any further sales requests). Now the waiting game starts. It's 4 days and I haven't received the mail. I email them. 2 days later they get back to me and say something happened and it didn't get mailed until the previous day. Now the waiting starts again. It could be 2 weeks before I either get the mail or the email saying they don't want to do the sale. I could have had the animal sold and shipped in that time. Just my 2 cents on why I don't like to do snail mail payments.

---

When I do this I give them 2 days to get me a check but not until then do I officially pull something off the market. I tell prospective buyers that I have that animal on hold pending deposit, or whatever, for 2 days and will happily put them on "The List" if they would like.

I've lost a couple of sales but made a few too.

There are no second chances though. It's a business not an excuse factory.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dsirkle

In my opinion, it would be ordinary for the seller to just factor the paypal fees into his selling price and not mention them at all to the buyer. Anyone that wants to add the fees in after the deal was made is being greedy in my opinion. If you are signed up with paypal where they have access to one of your bank accounts that paypal can put money in and take it out you have no recourse in the situation that Wes described. But if you are signed up just to make purchases with a credit and ignore their friendly request to "raise your purchasing limit, add a bank account routing number :)" your credit card card issuer will tell paypal to go jump in the lake in the event of a problem and paypal has no recourse. Even you people that need to allow bank access as a seller of merchandise should have a second paypal account (perhaps in a spouses name) without bank access just to make purchases with. You would then not lose your right under the law to place any purchase in dispute.You would retain control of the money and would not be under paypal's thumb.

---

This I did not know. Thanks Dale.

Now, what if you don't have a.....living, yes, that'll do, living, spouse?

So, if he said "OK - you owe a total of 660", you send out the $660, and then he comes back and says "oh you owe me $20 more for fees"... That is bait and switch, is it not?

3 things I see wrong with this...

1. Bait & Switch
2. It is against the Paypal terms (as previously pointed out)
3. There was no prior discussion about the fees before the transaction took place? You don't owe him that $20. It was up to him to make that perfectly clear before money switched accounts. He didn't. He can eat the fees. Lesson learnt.

If I had an existing account as Wes Snipes, I might try to open a 2nd account as Wesley B Snipes using perhaps the mailing address of a stable friend or relative and I would create a new email account for the new one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

I'm confused at what your saying. So it's against the TOS for them to ask you to pay the fees?

I never even realized there was fees. I suppose they were just absorbed by my sellers through the prices though.

---

Yes it is against Paypals TOS to ask for the 3% fee along with the purchase price. I have always absorbed it into the price it works out in the end.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pavlovk1025

1 payment of 2000 or 4 payments of 500 bucks each at Paypals 3% fee means you lose 60 bucks...I dont understand. You pay the same in fees either way...why would you charge extra on a payment plan? Thats kind of jacked up dude.

---

No Brother you missunderstood I have added the fees to cover the buyer when I had to make payments on a animal. We have never nor will we ever charge a Paypal fee as I said its against Paypals TOS and can have your account closed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nate

So, if he said "OK - you owe a total of 660", you send out the $660, and then he comes back and says "oh you owe me $20 more for fees"... That is bait and switch, is it not?

3 things I see wrong with this...

1. Bait & Switch
2. It is against the Paypal terms (as previously pointed out)
3. There was no prior discussion about the fees before the transaction took place? You don't owe him that $20. It was up to him to make that perfectly clear before money switched accounts. He didn't. He can eat the fees. Lesson learnt.

---

Damn right, hence why I said you can keep your animals give me my money and now I have animals on the way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Royal Morphz

No Brother you missunderstood I have added the fees to cover the buyer when I had to make payments on a animal. We have never nor will we ever charge a Paypal fee as I said its against Paypals TOS and can have your account closed.

---

That makes more sense, you kinda threw me for a loop with that.

Wes, I did NOT know that. If I got an empty box I would flip.

I despise pay pal. As a seller, you should be aware of what their TOS entails. Yes, they CAN freeze YOUR BANKS ASSETS if you are deemed guilty of fraud or any other crap!

Someone pays with a stolen CC, YOUR BANK ACCOUNT IS FROZEN.
A dirty buyer opens a dispute, YOUR BANK ACCOUNT IS FROZEN, and they get to keep whatever they took! You are out both money and animal.

Paypal is not on your side, they most often side with the buyer in disputes, and no amount of threats, pleas and lawyers will get them to unfreeze your account.

Just be wary.... visit paypalsucks.com.

If you are scammed, your credit card company is who you should go to immediately. Pay pal can award you the case, but if the scammer took out the money already, pay pall will not reimburse you. However, your CC company likely will.

Uhh...thanks? So im protected right? Update anyway, I received the tracking number today. Thanks to Wes Im now worried about getting an empty box in the mail. =/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pavlovk1025

Uhh...thanks? So im protected right? Update anyway, I received the tracking number today. Thanks to Wes Im now worried about getting an empty box in the mail. =/

---

Hey, maybe they'll be clever and put a rock in there so it'll have some weight.

I kid you not, I've seen it done.

Chances are you won't have any trouble.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wilomn

Hey, maybe they'll be clever and put a rock in there so it'll have some weight.

I kid you not, I've seen it done.

Chances are you won't have any trouble.

---

Ive heard of people doing that with electronics. Fortunately for me, the UPS guy waits for me to open the box up when he comes, he likes to see the new morphs I get lol. So if I dont get anything Im not signing and Im returning.

As a seller, I consider it a cost of business, therefore a tax write off at the end of the year. Maybe that guy shouldn't accept paypal payments. I wonder if Geico commercials offend him??? No offense to the cave people! LOL

I posted before reading some of the others. Let us know if the snake/rock makes it to you safely.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

I despise pay pal. As a seller, you should be aware of what their TOS entails. Yes, they CAN freeze YOUR BANKS ASSETS if you are deemed guilty of fraud or any other crap!

Someone pays with a stolen CC, YOUR BANK ACCOUNT IS FROZEN.
A dirty buyer opens a dispute, YOUR BANK ACCOUNT IS FROZEN, and they get to keep whatever they took! You are out both money and animal.

Paypal is not on your side, they most often side with the buyer in disputes, and no amount of threats, pleas and lawyers will get them to unfreeze your account.

Just be wary.... visit paypalsucks.com.

If you are scammed, your credit card company is who you should go to immediately. Pay pal can award you the case, but if the scammer took out the money already, pay pall will not reimburse you. However, your CC company likely will.

---

True to an extent. I purchase a lot of investment sneakers. I once did a deal with a seller to purchase 10 sneakers for 3500. The seller never sent out the shoes, and withdrew the money out of his account. This was a while ago, since then paypal has made changes to their policy so people couldnt do this anymore. I contacted paypal and paypal said they'd only cover me for the first 2000, which they did. My CC company (BOA) covered the rest... I got all my money back. It took a few months, but i did get the money :salute:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by derrabe

As a small time breeder/hobbyist cc machine seems like an unlikely acquisition. And personal checks and money orders I don't understand as long as you allow time for the checks to clear before releasing the snake.

---

Try googling cashiers check scam. Banks "clear" checks in a couple of days and the money will actually show up in your account, but the actual check isn't processed for a couple of weeks and the money can later be deducted. One common scam involves the seller sending a cashiers check for say, $1000 for a $500 item, then telling you the extra is to pay for an expensive courier service(they will say they don't trust UPS/fedex). They give you the address of the "courier" which is usually thier own PO Box/address, and tell you to send $500. Two weeks later your bank tells you it was a bad check and you are out the $500 you sent them. There are many variations of this scam, someone tried to pull it on me, but luckily it smelled funny to me and I did my research.

I usually adjust my price to cover some of paypal fees. IE a snake is worth 375 shipped, I ask 380. If I'm still making profit on the sale, then what do I care that I'm losing out on a few dollers?

I've never bought a snake online though, so this is purely a sellers opinion.

I eat the fees.... they taste good. Yum...

Justin

ps. big turn off the few times someone has asked me to cover fees in a purchase.