Pics of my new colony

Male:
http://flashforwardphotography.com/d...rats/Rats2.JPG

Females & Babies:
http://flashforwardphotography.com/d...rats/Rats3.JPG

Male looks pretty sickly. See all the porph on his face and sides? He's not too happy right now.

They're going to need alot better airflow than those tall tubs can provide, especially with three huge females + babies in one small tub.

Get shorter tubs or replace the sides of the tubs with mesh.

I also wouldn't breed the one female on top of the other female on the right. She's high white and therefore can carry the risk of megacolon. If any of the babies have blazes(white on their heads), then I wouldn't breed them either. Megacolon is not something you want in your colony(and we pet rat breeders have been trying to get rid of it for decades, but feeder breeders just keep on using the high white rats).

porph??

He seemed fine (happy) to me.. well until I took him out of the female tub...
but I have no idea what porph is.. or what a happy rat looks like LOL.

Alright, looked it up:

To the rat enthusiast, one porphyrin is of particular interest: the one that is secreted by the Harderian gland and appears around the rat's eyes. This red substance looks like red tears or blood, and can be startling to those who are unfamiliar with rats. Occasional low levels of porphyrin staining are normal, but regular large amounts of porphyrin indicate stress, sickness, or poor diet.



I know he was getting a good diet...Stress..... not sure... sickness... doesn't seem to be ill, no sneezing.. not sure what else I would notice..

The high white female.. what exactly is it that causes her to be high white? I tried looking it up but there were just descriptions online (no pictures) and that didn't help me much.

She is currently pregnant and should be birthing soon from what I gather.... What would I look for in the babies?

Mine get it from the shavings/corn cobb bedding. I use pine right now as that was all I could afford but normally I use aspin. Only a few of my females do it mainly the older crew( +2 years).

He was in, and is in pine bedding..... (as you can see LOL)
All these rats are under a year.

The staining is indicative of illness or stress. A new environment could do it, allergies could do it, stress can do it.

The stain does take a little while to be cleaned off, so chances are he was sick/"in a stressful environment", and is doing better now. I suggest cleaning him with a wet rag and a little bit of soap. Monitor to see if he gets it again around his nose, eyes (he has a spot under his eyes now), sides, forearms.

If you want to know what a high white marking is, you can visit the AFRMA website gallery, in conjunction with the names or descriptions of the high white markings, and you will be able to see what they are exactly.

Your girl is a capped husky if I remember right.

Thanks!

I will have to see what she pops out whenever she births and make sure all is well.
If she had megacolon, would every litter show it?
(Basically if she has this litter and tehy are all fine, does it mean she is fine to continue breeding?)

Megacolon is not that easy to predict or breed out. Neither does it show up at weaning, with some cases appearing 6-8 months down the road. If it was, don't you think it would be a non-issue?

That's why it is heavily advised to stay away from high white rats, because a rat can carry it and not be affected. However, it does not only affect high white rats, but most often megacolon is found in rats that also have high white spotting or lethal spotting.

If you would like to read more on megacolon, refer to ratbehavior.org or AFRMA.org.

Thanks.

Didn't know there were so many rat officinato's!

little secret no one has mentioned yet....

megacolon is only spread if you breed for others....

if you are breeding and feeding these animals off, MC does not hurt your snake.

If you breed a trillion animals, and feed them all to your snakes...mc was not spread to another generation

and the red around your males eyes could have been caused by a number of things...

common issues...

dust...from the bedding

stress...from you being in his cage.

but yes...you need to have a shorted or a better vented cage.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by suzuki4life

little secret no one has mentioned yet....



if you are breeding and feeding these animals off, MC does not hurt your snake.

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It will not hurt the snake but it WILL hurt the rat affected with it. Why would you not try to discourage breedings that has a high risk of producing a painful defect for the rat? Who cares if they are being fed off, if it's early onset MC that rat is still suffering.

How long do you keep the babies in there before removing them, or the mom? I have a first timer getting ready to pop in the next week. She's a gorgeous grey color, with a white tummy, and feet. It is so amazing how affectionate they are. Like miniature dogs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cobweb2000

It will not hurt the snake but it WILL hurt the rat affected with it. Why would you not try to discourage breedings that has a high risk of producing a painful defect for the rat? Who cares if they are being fed off, if it's early onset MC that rat is still suffering.

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people think high white are prone....doesn't mean it has it...it is speculation.

if the worry is about spreading a genetic "disease"...if all are fed off then nothing has been spread. I don't see the need to worry a new keeper over such an issue unless he plans to breed and extend his colony to outsiders.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stratus_020202

How long do you keep the babies in there before removing them, or the mom? I have a first timer getting ready to pop in the next week. She's a gorgeous grey color, with a white tummy, and feet. It is so amazing how affectionate they are. Like miniature dogs.

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babies should basically be with their mom until their eyes open.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by suzuki4life

people think high white are prone....doesn't mean it has it...it is speculation.

if the worry is about spreading a genetic "disease"...if all are fed off then nothing has been spread. I don't see the need to worry a new keeper over such an issue unless he plans to breed and extend his colony to outsiders.

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High whites ARE prone. Yes her rats may not have it, but the worry I have is not about spreading genetic issues, it is that we not breed rats that have painful genetic defects. I certainly think the possibility of breeding animals that have a good chance of dying of malnutrition or septicemia before they are fed off is something worth worrying a new keeper over.

Quote:

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If you breed a trillion animals, and feed them all to your snakes...mc was not spread to another generation

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But that would require starting over with a completely fresh source.

Does anyone really feed off a whole colony and start fresh when their first generation breeders are old?

That's about the only way to guarantee it.

Yes, and high white is very well associated with megacolon, or rather, vice versa.

It's due to the fact that in the embryo's development, the cells that develop the nerves that control the function of the colon travel along the very same route that the pigment cells travel. When the migration of the pigment cells is halted, the nerve cells are often stopped as well. Resulting in a colon that does not function properly, or at all. :gj:

It's not just a crazy myth, it's science. When we advise to stay away from high white rats, it's not just for kicks and giggles. I have always said that not all high white rats carry the necessary genes for megacolon, and megacolon does not always show up in only high white rats, but the risk is higher due to my explanation above.

The only way to prove a line does not carry megacolon is through controlled line and inbreeding. It's very possible to do so, but most feeder breeders are not interested in genetics.