non-eater-need advice

hello all! This is my first thread and post on bp.net. I have browsed the forum for a while and gotten lots of good advice and pointers from what I have read. I am new to herping, and I bought a ball python in early june from petland in Dunwoody, GA. The snake had been fed about 4 days before i bought it. I tried feeding it again one week after purchasing, i used F/T fuzzies(by advice of the pet store), and it did not eat. I attempted again (perhaps too soon) 5 days later, and it did not eat again. I did everything right to the best of my knowledge( I thawed it in warm water in a plastic ziplock bag and dangled it infront of the snake. I even put it on the lid of the terrarium before feeding to try to let the snake get in the feeding mood from the scent). The tank is set up properly, i have two hides, one cool and one warm with a water bowl in the middle. there is a uth and i have a basking lamp. the humidity is between 53% and 65% at all times, and during the day the temp on the warm side is approximately 93 degrees, at night it is approximately 84 degrees. the tank is a ten gallon glass, with black construction paper sorrounding three sides to provide more privacy. i continued trying to feed it weekly ever since, my last attemp was on wednesday and i used a live mouse, still no luck. the snake is 18 inches long

What kind of hides are you using? What kind of thermometers are you using to measure temps?

Sounds like you might have a husbandry issue.

Also, Welcome!!

How old is the snake?
How often are you handling?


Leave it be for a week, no handling except for spot cleaning, cover the front of the tank if in a high traffic area. after 7 days offer it the appropriate sized meal with 30 minutes of pre-scenting first.

did u try feeding him in his tank and not another location? because he might feel secure in his tank and not a random tank when he eats try feeding him in his enclosure and leave him alone with the food overnight seee what happens goood luck!

Hi,

The others have asked most of the good questions so I'll just suggest finding a way to avoid the night time drop if possible.

The specifics of the tank already asked for should let us work out how to best do that if you need help I think. :)

I'll also throw in the idea of using a hairdrier to heat up the head off the mouse just before offering.

If you can ask the shop you got it from how they prepare and presented the prey when he ate for them - it could be as simple as he doesn't like wet mice.


dr del

i can only tell you from my experience.
im a first time owner too, i got a baby pb a few months ago. its only probably 3.5 months old now.

ill say a couple of things.

93 ambient air in the air with a heat mat would be too much for my snake.

he wont sit in the warm hide more than half an hour if its above about 91., and the ambient air for the whole enclosure is always around 75@night, 78@day. constant 91 on heat mat.

anyway, he eats wonderfully.
he'll eat from my hand, off my hand, i can be holding him and just dangle a mouse infront of him and he'll take it and consume it while he's wrapped around my arm for example, no problem. and for 3.5 months old i think thats pretty tame.

make sure the food is hot enough. the only time my snake wont take something is if its not warm enough. its as simple as putting it back in hot water (in a bag) for 30 seconds so its very warm to the touch.. obviously not too hot, but you have to consider that the mouse, depending on its size, can lose most of that heat in seconds. so if its more than 30 or 40 seconds before i get it to the snake i often gotta reheat :p

try and get a couple of pics of your enclosure. your temps are probably fine and maybe my guy just likes it cooler than most. buts its worth checking and perhaps switching them a bit to see how he reacts.

oh, and when i did finally get him to eat. i used the opportunity to feed him little and often. for example i fed him on 5 days one week. but just a tiny amount each day, and, in different places/times each day. i figured that the more succesful eats he has under his belt, irrelevant of the size, will make him more confident. and hopefully also make him more willing to come out of his hide. and it seems to be true.

maybe this is worth trying if you want yours to be a solid eater in the future.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tuggernuts

and during the day the temp on the warm side is approximately 93 degrees, at night it is approximately 84 degrees.

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Do you intentionally lower the temp at night, or is that because it gets cooler in your house?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by seercirra

anyway, he eats wonderfully.
he'll eat from my hand, off my hand, i can be holding him and just dangle a mouse infront of him and he'll take it and consume it while he's wrapped around my arm for example, no problem. and for 3.5 months old i think thats pretty tame.

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Why would you feed your snake while it is wrapped around your arm? That has nothing to do with being tame, he is probably just starving. Sounds like you may not be feeding him enough.
After a snake eats, you shouldn't handle it for 24-48 hours.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by seercirra

i can only tell you from my experience.
im a first time owner too, i got a baby pb a few months ago. its only probably 3.5 months old now.

ill say a couple of things.

93 ambient air in the air with a heat mat would be too much for my snake.

he wont sit in the warm hide more than half an hour if its above about 91., and the ambient air for the whole enclosure is always around 75@night, 78@day. constant 91 on heat mat.

anyway, he eats wonderfully.
he'll eat from my hand, off my hand, i can be holding him and just dangle a mouse infront of him and he'll take it and consume it while he's wrapped around my arm for example, no problem. and for 3.5 months old i think thats pretty tame.

make sure the food is hot enough. the only time my snake wont take something is if its not warm enough. its as simple as putting it back in hot water (in a bag) for 30 seconds so its very warm to the touch.. obviously not too hot, but you have to consider that the mouse, depending on its size, can lose most of that heat in seconds. so if its more than 30 or 40 seconds before i get it to the snake i often gotta reheat :p

try and get a couple of pics of your enclosure. your temps are probably fine and maybe my guy just likes it cooler than most. buts its worth checking and perhaps switching them a bit to see how he reacts.

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You are giving your snake too much credit of intelligence.
Ball pythons are not a tame species. They are wild animals, plain and simple.

You should not be feeding him on your arm. That is asking for problems. I would not handle him at all the same day you feed him. Also feeding him out of your hand will just get you bitten eventually, they can miss a lot.

Thanks for the advice. I have a zoo med thermometer in the center of the tank, and then a digital thermometer and hygrometer about 1.5 inches above the cage floor on the warm side of the tank. i made my own hides by taking some small clay (ceramic?) plant saucers and chipping off a small part of the edge allowing the snake to go into it. i sanded down the sharp corners making sure there are no edges that could in anyway hurt the snake, no matter how hard he might try to push against it. after that I put both saucers in boiling water so they could become sterilized.
I tried to make sure the mouse was thoroughly warm by allowing it to soak in warm-hot water for a while.
I have been trying to feed him in his main cage as I thought that moving him might stress him to much before feeding time.
I handle him once every ten days or so, not for more than ten minutes at a time.

I forgot to add that I use a basking lamp on the warm side for about 8 hours a day to get the tmps that warm. i might try to go a week without the lamp because i have noticed that as soon as i turn the lamp, within 5 minutes he goes to the cool side hide. I will try to skip out on the lamp for a while and see if that doesnt help his feeding response.
thanks for all the advice! I will keep giving updates, I'm pretty confident he will eat soon. He has got to be starving :./

Joe's two cents.

After you thaw out the mouse and it is nice and warm. Use a paper towel or rag and gently rub the little mouse down to get any moisture off. The moisture on the outside of the mouse gets cold very quickly and can be a turn off for the snake.

Though this is a small detail it could be the problem.

I had a snake that didn't eat for about 5 months and asked for help on here and got the best advice ever! I was told to crumple up newspaper and almost fill the cage with it, it makes them feel more secure, not so much open space. I did that and sure enough, tried a live mouse five days later and he ate it!! He's been eating like a pig ever since :banana: Thanks again Fatboy!! :gj:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nitroball

I had a snake that didn't eat for about 5 months and asked for help on here and got the best advice ever! I was told to crumple up newspaper and almost fill the cage with it, it makes them feel more secure, not so much open space. I did that and sure enough, tried a live mouse five days later and he ate it!! He's been eating like a pig ever since :banana: Thanks again Fatboy!! :gj:

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That's a great tip that's been passed down from Kevin McCurley.

It sounds like you're doing everything correctly from what you've described, but I would try to stick with live. Try the newspaper trick and offer a live mouse in about a week (leaving the newspaper in).

Watch for lurking behavior (head out of the hide, looking interested in its surroundings) and that will be a great time to offer the food.

If push comes to shove, I am somewhat local to you (I live in Marietta) and would be happy to try to help you out, even if that's helping you with setting up an even smaller enclosure with a tub set-up that may also help get a reluctant feeder to eat for you.

thanks everyone for the advice! the newspaper seems like it might be a good idea, i had never even considered doing that. Today I did not turn on the light and the temp has been at about 83 degrees with 52% humidity. he has been much more active too, i came home and he was on his branch, so it was encouraging to see more activity, perhaps a sign that he is more comfortable now and possibly ready to take a mouse. im going to wait until next thursday to feed him again so he can get more used to a schedule. I use aspen snake bedding on top of paper towels as my substrate, if that makes a difference.
I think i will try for another live feeder on thursday, i think a live mouse will stimulate a better feeding response.
Also, i did dry off the mouse before introducing it into the cage, he just did not seem interested.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tuggernuts

thanks everyone for the advice! the newspaper seems like it might be a good idea, i had never even considered doing that. Today I did not turn on the light and the temp has been at about 83 degrees with 52% humidity. he has been much more active too, i came home and he was on his branch, so it was encouraging to see more activity, perhaps a sign that he is more comfortable now and possibly ready to take a mouse. im going to wait until next thursday to feed him again so he can get more used to a schedule. I use aspen snake bedding on top of paper towels as my substrate, if that makes a difference.
I think i will try for another live feeder on thursday, i think a live mouse will stimulate a better feeding response.
Also, i did dry off the mouse before introducing it into the cage, he just did not seem interested.

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83 degrees for the warm side is a little cool - see if you can keep temps on that end about 88-90 all the time. 80-82 would be good for the cool side.

Activity is normal in the evenings, but not something you want to see a lot of during the day time. A happy ball python is one that you rarely see, because he's tucked away inside his hide, feeling safe and secure.

When you see them with their heads peeking out of the hide actively watching their surroundings, that's the best time to drop in a live prey item.

Actually, being more active is a sign of stress. I never see my bps during the day, unles it's feeding day of course. Even then i only see my large female because she is a pig, and can smell a mouse.

Is 84 your warm side, or ambient? That's too cold for the warm side, it needs to be 90-92. What are you using for substate (floor cover). I used to use aspen, and found it was blocking too much heat, so I switched to paper towels and that us much better.

update! I bought a live feeder from petco yesterday, it was a brown adult mouse. I waited several hours after I turned off the light and it was completely dark in my room before I putt he mouse's cardboard container in the cage with my ball. Nothing happened for a while, and i was dissapointed that my ball didnt show more interest. so i went to bed and during the night the mouse chewed its way out of the cardboard container. I wen this morning to get the mouse out, but it's container was empty, and there was no mouse to be seen. i lifted up my ball's favorite hide and there he was, coiled up and with a big lump about halfway down his abdomen. so i feel extremely relieved, i was getting worried that he wasnt eating at all. thanks everyone for the advice! :gj:

also, since he hasnt eaten in a while before yesterday, would it be worth it to try to offer him another mouse today? i did not witness him eat the mouse, idk if there is way to tell if he would eat another one by watching the way he eats? just a thought. I would like to get him up to a bigger size and eventually on rats, i guess that just comes with time

Hi,

Congrats on the feeding but you really need to change a few things for next time.

As you found out mice can chew through cardboard with ease so, when pre-scenting next time, use a plastic enclosure they can't get a tooth-hold on. :)

They sell small pet carriers in most pet stores, I would also recommend putting a waterbottle and some food in the tank with it - having this and some bedding handy means you can deal with any future refusals by keeping the animal till the next feeding day and making sure it is well fed and watered in the meantime.

There is no need to put the enclosure with the mouse actually inside the snakes tank - he can smell it fine from sitting nearby. :gj:

And the most important point.

Never leave an animal past the fuzzy stage in with your snake unsupervised - especially overnight.

You got lucky the snake ate the mouse and not the other way round during the night.


dr del

Hi,

And to answer the post you made while I was writing mine I would not try and feed him again until the next scheduled feeding day - it will not hurt to have him a little hungry for the next attempt. :)

The idea is to try and build up a good routine where he is actually expecting to be fed on a regular basis.


dr del

thanks. I normally never leave it unattended with the mouse in the cage, but i fell asleep, and thankfully nothing happened. i didnt know ball's had that keen of smell, i will just leave the mouse next to the cage for next time. the petco i get my feeders from is really helpful in that they allow me to return a mouse that my ball refuses, so at this point i dont need to get a rodent cage. I spent all the money i can at this point on my ball and getting his tank setup suitable, so its nice to be able to return uneaten feeders.:)
thanks everyone for you're help, if I have any more Q's (first reptile, so i probly will) I will come here.:gj: