Florida python hunt

I know this will please some and upset otheirs , but I trust U.S.A.R.K. Just got this from them in a e-mail.



This Press release was written by Shawn Heflick and Andrew Wyatt. This morning it was submitted to the Associated Press, Washington Post, The Orlando Sentinel, ABC News and FOX News.


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE



Pilot Program For Python Hunt



Wilmington, NC July 16, 2009- The United States Association of Reptile Keepers (USARK) supports a bounty on Burmese Pythons. Florida Fish & Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC) has been working very closely with key reptile experts in Florida to develop and implement a pilot program for permitting a select group of 20 Florida reptile experts to participate in a trial program that will allow permitted experts to hunt Burmese Pythons on FWC and South Florida Water Management District (SFWMD) areas. All participants must possess a valid Florida Reptiles of Concern permit and meet criteria laid down by FWC. Each Burmese Hunt Permittee will be allowed 5 additional hunters to accompany them into the field. Permitted individuals must carry GPS units and digital cameras, and supply data to FWC within 36 hours of capture. They will also be required to attempt to capture any other non-native species they come across during their hunts and call for permission from land managers into restricted areas before going into the field. Permitted individuals are free to take the specimens or euthanize them on site at their discretion.



FWC has worked very hard to step up and develop this program. They have worked very closely with the Florida Reptile Community in the development of this permit/program, and are eager to be part of the solution to this problem. Florida reptile experts spear-heading this effort with FWC are Shawn K. Heflick, Greg Graziani and Michael Cole.

The United States Association of Reptile Keepers (USARK) supports and applauds this effort by FWC and the Florida Reptile Community in taking concrete pragmatic steps in addressing the issue of feral Burmese Pythons in South Florida. USARK supports Senator Bill Nelson’s call for the US Dept. of Interior to open federal land where the epicenter of the population resides and is encouraging that this pilot program be considered as a model for a Federal Bounty Program. In a letter dated June 17, 2009 to Secretary of Interior Ken Salazar USARK pledged $10,000 to this proposal.

USARK President Andrew Wyatt added, “It is time all interested stakeholders work together to address this issue. The reptile community has been unjustly cast as the villain being accused as the source of the introduction of Burmese Pythons, when a genetics study commissioned by SFWD points away from this likelihood. We are not the source, but we want to be part of the solution; and we are putting our money where our mouth is. We have more expertise with Burmese Pythons than all other stakeholders combined and now we are bringing this expertise to bear in addressing this problem in South Florida.”

USARK is a science and education based advocacy for the responsible private ownership of, and trade in reptiles. We endorse caging standards, sound husbandry, escape prevention protocols, and an integrated approach to vital conservation issues. Our goal is to facilitate cooperation between government agencies, the scientific community, and the private sector in order to produce policy proposals that will effectively address important husbandry and conservation issues. The health of these animals, public safety, and maintaining ecological integrity are our primary concerns

I had actually been wondering how long it was going to take before we started orchestrated culling of wild non-indigenous species. Regardless of how much we admire these animals, there is no excuse for letting them proliferate in the wild, and wreaking havoc on both the native species and the already delicate ecosystem.

Glad that something is finally being done about the wild ones that are ruining the lands. I think this should have been done years ago.

Although it saddens me I feel it needs to be done. Granted we will "never" get all of the wild ones thinning them out can't hurt and maybe it will get the legislators off our backs and give them something to do for a while. But I think any babies found be given to petshops to be given a chance. exquisite adult specimens should be donated to zoos or something. I just feel that if there is some place they can live out their lives then they should be given the chance to do soo.

The Experts in the industry are behind this, and we need to all be supportive imo.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sg1trogdor

Although it saddens me I feel it needs to be done. Granted we will "never" get all of the wild ones thinning them out can't hurt and maybe it will get the legislators off our backs and give them something to do for a while. But I think any babies found be given to petshops to be given a chance. exquisite adult specimens should be donated to zoos or something. I just feel that if there is some place they can live out their lives then they should be given the chance to do soo.

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Not to shoot you down, but I bet you've never seen a fresh from the wild 15 foot burm.

They are NOTHING like the big fat 15 foot babies you see in captivity.

Zoos won't want them because there are plenty available now that are already healthy and tame. Too many.

Babies for pet stores would simply put more babies of questionable health and not nearly the friendly temperaments of captives back into the already flooded market.

Your ideas are good ones, but not practical ones.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Not to shoot you down, but I bet you've never seen a fresh from the wild 15 foot burm.

They are NOTHING like the big fat 15 foot babies you see in captivity.

Zoos won't want them because there are plenty available now that are already healthy and tame. Too many.

Babies for pet stores would simply put more babies of questionable health and not nearly the friendly temperaments of captives back into the already flooded market.

Your ideas are good ones, but not practical ones.

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Yeah I guess I didn't think of it like that. Oh well. Can't win em all.

USARK might have just saved our tails. im glad they jumped in and offered a helping hand and took a step forward with taking care of this problem. i hope after all this is dealt with that our lil babies are still safe with us. i also think that there should be a ban on importation of the burmese... just let the breeders produce our pets... maybe even balls for that matter.
my :twocents:

kill em all. that is what I say. speaking of the wild ones in south florida.

It sounds HORRIBLE and I know that. But honestly and truly, I thing that us having that "official stance" is the only thing that can possibly save our hobby at this point.

Think about it.

I agree with you Mike.
It's sad that animals, the very ones that someone chose to have in captivity have to die. But it must be done.

Remove the pythons from the wild, and remove the ammo they have on us to take away OUR reptiles......... This could be a good thing.

It is sad, but I have to agree. This is a good idea. In a perfect world we wouldn't have to kill these beautiful animals, however we don't live in a perfect world. At least they are having them use good safety measures.

Although this hits close to home, this would be looked at as an example of animal control that has been done with many species of animals. Where I am from Deer are commonly harvested for overpopulation reasons, although python issue is different, the removal of them serves a purpose that has been deemed needed.

My concern with this occuring is I close my eyes and see the following.

Next go round for animal ban....people arguing the need for import/export/trade/breeding to be banned will have pictures. Example.....python after python lined up with the people who caught them and dramatizing how real the problem is. Look at this killer 20 footer that was taken just 1 mile from a residential neighborhood. Just look at this picture that required 5 trained people to subdue and control for capture. This program has lead to kill and capture of 5000 python in a such and such square mile radius. True or false with how this turns out I fear the use of images in their arguement for future proposed legislation.

I support USARK and believe in the stance they are taking. I for one agree that the python issue in Florida needs to be addressed and taken care of. For us to argue that they should be left alone would be an unwise stance, and a stance I dont think many of us support as we fight for our rights as reptile hobbyist and business owners.

I agree they need to be removed but regardless it will not stop the bans that are proposed. They will always find something to try to take from you

As much as I love animals and my Shiroko is a big baby, These feral pythons are worse than feral cats, which also need to be controlled. Not only do they destroy wildlife but unlike cats, feral pythons are more dangerous to pets and have the potential to harm humans.
I have seen cats from generations of ferals and while a few can be rehabilitated most quite frankly never adjust to captivity completely, while I would allow one of these cats in my home(i don't have kids), an unpredictable 15ft feral burmese could be a fair bit more dangerous. My personal belief is that in ferals only the strongest, meanest,most suspicious and smartest live to reproduce and so after generations the very opposite of what we do in captive breeding occurs. Its just not worth it to keep them alive when so many domesticated burmese need homes, instead of housing ferals we need to concentrate on rescuing unwanteds so idiots don't release them and add to the population of ferals.
I fear that destruction is the only fate for these animals, and feel that those hunting them need to be the most experienced of reptile keepers, the last thing we need is some overconfident redneck getting himself killed trying to hunt down these animals, that would only make matters worse.

"What did you bag?"

"Oh, about 50 English sparrows, 70 European starlings, 1 Burmese, and a stray cat!"

How many species have been hunted to extinction? How many species came CLOSE to being hunted to extinction, and were saved only by the intervention of laws to protect them? Man seems perfectly capable of wiping out entire populations of animals when there is some sort of profit involved...either profit from selling pelts/skins/feathers/meat or profit from supposedly protecting livestock. I don't see any reason why the invasive snakes in Florida can't be similarly wiped out.

Do I like the idea of killing snakes? Of course not. But unpleasant, unhappy, uncomfortable action is often necessary in this world of ours.

Media event to kick off South Florida python hunt bags 9-footer

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By David Fleshler South Florida Sun Sentinel

11:28 AM EDT, July 17, 2009

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A crew of snake handlers, with a large group of reporters in tow, hit the Everglades this morning to answer questions about state plans to start hunting Burmese pythons -- and it didn't take long for one of the reptiles to show up.

The hunters caught a 9-foot python at a hunting camp they reached by airboat in west Broward County. The snake, the target of a new campaign to prevent the nonnative constrictors from extending their range beyond Everglades National Park, was put in a pillow case.

Officials plan to decapitate it and examine its stomach contents.

Just a small group of snake killers will participate in the initial hunt, as the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission assesses whether this is a feasible way to control a bizarre threat to South Florida's native wildlife.

The snake hunters will travel along roads and levees in the Holey Land, Everglades and Francis S. Taylor wildlife management areas, where hunters shoot deer and hogs.

The men engaging in the hunt are people from the reptile industry, which largely has been blamed for the problem.

State and federal biologists have said the Everglades snakes descended either from released unwanted pets or from an escape during the time of Hurricane Andrew.

Although the state will allow them to sell the meat and hide as compensation, three hunters interviewed said they didn't expect to earn anything.

"We're doing this to show that the reptile industry is interested in getting these snakes removed," said Greg Graziani, a Central Florida reptile breeder who will go on the hunt. "We want to be part of the solution."

As for the carcass, he said, "I don't know anyone who buys meat or hides. For right now, the carcass is not worth anything to me personally. There may not be enough meat or skin to do anything with."

After a day or two of preliminaries, in which they will survey the land, speak with local hunters and obtain maps, they will head out.

They usually will work at night. When they encounter a Burmese python, they will photograph it, note the location with a Global Positioning System, take measurements, determine its sex and cut off its head. They will examine its stomach contents on the spot.

They will not be allowed to use traps or firearms.

Shawn Heflick, of Palm Bay, an approved python hunter, said he's caught lots of pythons in southeast Asia, and there's really no danger to experienced hunters.

"We're not the prey," he said. "They're the prey. We're the predators."

If it's a small one -- say a mere 8-footer -- he'll pick it up with his hand. "You're going to get bit," he said. "But you kind of get used to that."

The reptile industry feels threatened by the publicity over the Everglades pythons and the recent death of a 2-year-old girl in Central Florida who was strangled by a pet python. Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Florida, has introduced a bill to ban the import and interstate trade in Burmese pythons, as well as the smaller ball python, which breeders and dealers consider a harmless species unfairly caught up in the Burmese python hysteria.

In a separate development Thursday, the U.S. Department of the Interior announced it is considering an expansion of a tightly controlled hunting program at Everglades National Park, where about a dozen volunteers catch pythons. And it said it's working on a program to allow hunters of deer, hogs and other game at Big Cypress National Preserve to shoot the snakes.

Although there has been talk of up to 150,000 pythons in the Everglades, state officials say they can't really estimate the numbers and prefer to simply say there are "thousands." The snakes have been dining on the native wildlife, such as wading birds, bobcats and deer.

The hunters are all reptile experts.

"I got my first snake when I was 4," said Michael Cole, of Haines City, another approved python hunter, who owns Ballroom Pythons South, a reptile company. "I bred my first snake at 13. I was catching and tagging rattlesnakes when I was 15."

Although he says the media and some scientists have unfairly blamed the industry for putting pythons in the Everglades, he acknowledged the industry got them into the country originally. Now he said they want to help solve the problem.

"We're not doing this for the skins or the meat," he said. "We're doing this to get rid of things that shouldn't have been there in the first place."

Wow. An article that actually puts snake keepers in a positive light. I wish the media would actually report unbiased news like this more often. I still say the bodies should go to vet students and the hides to people interested in taxidermy

If there is a taxidermy place near you, go ask them. It would be easy for everyone to call up any local places and ask if they would be interested in hides. The meat would probably quickly go bad, and be no good(similar issue with keeping any number of bodies..), and hauling that much snake around all night would be a big PITA. Hides would be fairly easy to take and stuff into a bag.

I'm so very glad that they are doing it, and extremely proud that both Greg and Micheal are partipating! I'd like to look into going down to put in time myself sometime soon.

I just hope they can all go out quickly, and painlessly. How easy is it to shoot a Burmese, and not make it suffer? I know it needs to be done, but it stills tears me up.

Give people a reason to kill, they are going to have fun with it.

I am all for hunting, and have grown up with guns all my life. But I don't know much about them. Are they going to be able to kill them quickly with a gun?

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

If there is a taxidermy place near you, go ask them. It would be easy for everyone to call up any local places and ask if they would be interested in hides. The meat would probably quickly go bad, and be no good(similar issue with keeping any number of bodies..), and hauling that much snake around all night would be a big PITA. Hides would be fairly easy to take and stuff into a bag.

I'm so very glad that they are doing it, and extremely proud that both Greg and Micheal are partipating! I'd like to look into going down to put in time myself sometime soon.

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Hide, you'd want to have someone carrying a ice chest with ice in it. Put the hide in a plastic bag and put it in the chest. Heat and humidity are killers to fresh hides.

I read this story a few weeks ago.

http://www.outdoorlife.com/photos/ga...id=enews070909

Those pics are disgusting. "oh, it has food in its stomach, and when we catch it's going to regurgitate.. So, let's tie a rope around it's neck and see what happens."

I don't care how much of a dangerous nuisance they are, it's disgusting! Chop off their heads, and be done with it. They should make rules at least, don't make it suffer. I'm so happy to be in Kansas, I couldn't stand seeing that everyday, or in person. It just turns my stomach.

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Originally Posted by stratus_020202

I just hope they can all go out quickly, and painlessly. How easy is it to shoot a Burmese, and not make it suffer? I know it needs to be done, but it stills tears me up.

Give people a reason to kill, they are going to have fun with it.

I am all for hunting, and have grown up with guns all my life. But I don't know much about them. Are they going to be able to kill them quickly with a gun?

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they cant use guns...they are cutting their heads off

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The “Partner with Hunters” program will allow trained, qualified, and licensed hunters the opportunity to terminate pythons, a non-game species, with the use of their firearm if they come across one during the course of their normal hunting activity.

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This is quoted from my copy of the press release from USARK. I'm sorry, They aren't allowed to use what? AND the weapon of choice in the article above is a 12 guage shotgun. Please correct me if I am misreading.

I too am all for USARK, and support this hunt as a PUBLIC RELATIONS action. But, as a biologist I can assure you that there is not a prayer in hell of eliminating Burms from south Florida by this or any other strategy I can think of. They now are common from the northern keys to Ft Lauderdale (at least) and west all the way to the Gulf. Most of this habitat is totally inaccessible and roadless. Combine this with the huge population and cryptic habits of the pythons, and you have a recipe for failure.

Did anyone notice that the National Park, as well as all private land, will be off-limits to the hunters?

The press release from USARK is not policy. I believe the USARK press release is what they would LIKE to happen.

The official word is that you CANNOT use firearms in public lands, and the approved method is to cut the head off.

I could be wrong, but the last word is from the state, not USARK. I'm glad USARK is involved, but their release is not the same as the official.

Quote:

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The “Partner with Hunters” program will allow trained, qualified, and licensed hunters the opportunity to terminate pythons, a non-game species, with the use of their firearm if they come across one during the course of their normal hunting activity.

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Same Quote from Washington, DC, and according to an Atlanta newspaper:

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This just in from Washington: The Feds will not only join Florida's great snake hunt, but will expand it to include aerial surveillance and research into the lifestyles of feral Burmese pythons suspected to be lying low, yet waiting to strike, in Everglades National Park and other federal lands.

Earlier this week, Florida Gov. Charlie Crist (R) convened a state-led task force of bounty hunters to chase pythons that aren't in national parks, preserves, or refuges. On Friday morning, that hunt yielded its first catch: Three bounty hunters caught a nine-foot python in Broward County.

When it comes to national parks, however, hunting is not allowed. But the newly announced federal program supersedes that rule.

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Hmm. Seems to be some misunderstanding in this python hunt. Imagine that, misunderstanding, from the government.

There was a report on the 6:00 news tonight about the hunt. Showed shots of Greg and Shawn reaching down and grabbing one from the dock. The reporter said they were using a machete (sp?) to kill the burms.

While I don't like the idea of killing any animal, I agree that it is necessary both for PR purposes as well as control.

I also don't believe they can eradicate all at this late date and these feral burms are not your "tame" burms raised in captivity.

i would more then love to be down there helping them out in this,it needs to be done

have to say its better than them taking away our reptiles

tho i think the burms taking over the area is just natural selection at work, but hey we're at the top and i guess we get to control how things are.

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

have to say its better than them taking away our reptiles

tho i think the burms taking over the area is just natural selection at work, but hey we're at the top and i guess we get to control how things are.

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You can't even begin to say natural selection. Humans brought these snakes here not nature. I agree that it beats taking our reptiles away though.

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Originally Posted by JLC

How many species have been hunted to extinction? How many species came CLOSE to being hunted to extinction, and were saved only by the intervention of laws to protect them? Man seems perfectly capable of wiping out entire populations of animals when there is some sort of profit involved...either profit from selling pelts/skins/feathers/meat or profit from supposedly protecting livestock. I don't see any reason why the invasive snakes in Florida can't be similarly wiped out.

Do I like the idea of killing snakes? Of course not. But unpleasant, unhappy, uncomfortable action is often necessary in this world of ours.

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i was thinking the same thing, but then it also seems that we only tend to wipe out the native species. the ones that are not native and are brought in by mistake or to controll another species that has gone crazy are the ones that we cant get under controll (rats, zebra muscles, goby fish, etc).

while i think its a great idea i wonder how well it will work.

they should also try and use the skins from the wild burms for shoes and bags or something productive so they arent just killed and trashed. they still a living creature.

They have no hope in hell of eliminating the burmese python. Even if they killed 2000 a year the numbers would still go up. Its difficult to track them in swampland and they are very prolific, not to mention all the private land.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

have to say its better than them taking away our reptiles

tho i think the burms taking over the area is just natural selection at work, but hey we're at the top and i guess we get to control how things are.

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They will never stop trying to take your reptiles away regardless of how many burms they take out of the everglades

Actually there is probably a good market for the skins, given how much flack skin and pelt traders get. They could market products from the skins as from animals that were going to die regardless, and people will pay more in order to ease their conscious that an animal died for their boots. And if there is a profit involved the chances of eraditicating or at least seriously reducing the population is greatly increased. Given that the feral pythons must be eliminated, I would feel better to know that at least some part was used and that the animal did not go to waste. I believe that if an animal is killed then as much of it should be used as possible. I have no problem with deer hunting as long as the deer is used for food, it seems pointless and wasteful to me to hunt a deer and do nothing with the carcass.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 771subliminal

they should also try and use the skins from the wild burms for shoes and bags or something productive so they arent just killed and trashed. they still a living creature.

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I agree. I hate to see any snake die but for the sake of the everglades and for the sake of our hobby... it does need to be done. But I would REALLY dislike it if they didn't at least get used in some way; they're not garbage. And I think selling the skins and meat would lessen the demand for their hides in the native lands.

I'd never buy skins or whatever from a burmese that was either farmed for it's hide or killed and taken from it's natural enviroment, but one of the everglades burmese, I'd love a skull or even a full skeleton as reference for my artwork.

That being said, I will be seriously pissed if they don't try to kill the animals as humanely as possible.

It is good that they are taking the right measures and allowing only trained individuals to take place in the hunt.

Although, steps need to be taken to prevent more specimens to be released right back into the wild. This is where H.R 669 comes into play, if snakes cannot be purchased-any non-native animal for that matter- then this problem would not arise.

These animals should not be sold to individuals who will dump them into the wild. This is where the H.R 669 will come into play. If pet stores are not permitted to sell the animals, then the inexperienced and negligent owners will not possess them. Then when they get to big and hard to manage, they get dumped into the wild.

In my opinion, right now, this plan is okay. These 20 individuals have to get on their "a-game" to catch the several thousand non-native species/specimens. But without a regulation on who can purchase these snakes, they will have to better plan their mission.

Hopefully all the snakes are hiding, I would sure hate to be digesting my fox and some professional herpetoligist severs my brain.:gj:

I have three issues with this cull.

1) It's nothing but a knee jerk reaction by politicians to gain and take advantage of political capital.

2) As several others have pointed out it honestly won't do a thing in terms of wiping out the population of Burmese in the Everglades and elsewhere.

3) It's knee jerk reaction by the public to do what we always do when an animal acts like an animal and kills someone. Become a mad mob with torches and pitchforks, race out into "wilds" and slaughter that species of animal left and right.

people that think this is good PR are CRAZY.

this is going to cost the taxpayers money and that will be a focus for a ban.

Even though i no longer have the collection that i once had, i am a snake guy, i am still rooting for the snakes.

Man's interaction with this will not solve anything. Let it balance itself out. maybe all of those coon, rat, and possum' populations will go away.

People have been destroying habitat since they invaded what is known as the united states, when will they be culled?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redpython

People have been destroying habitat since they invaded what is known as the united states, when will they be culled?

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See, I've been suggesting that for years but it's still illegal for some reason...