What is the youngest you'd breed a female ball?

As long as a female is up to breeding weight, what is the earliest you'd breed her?

New to the breeding scene and I know there are a lot of opinions. Your thoughts?

In december my female cinnamon will be 18 months and i'm gonna breed as long as she is at least 1600 grams.

18 months old female minimum 1500 grams, though I rather breed bigger girls.

I go 18 months 1500-1600, most dont take that early but I have had some do.

18-20 months and 1600 grams.:)

I refuse to breed a female younger than 3 years old. No matter the weight at any age younger she will be 3 years old and atleast 1500 grams at that age.

I am one of those odd ones I only feed once a week nothing more and nothing less. I know a lot of people do feed more often and everything and thats great for them but I would prefer my snakes to live longer and have a better life. It is just an opinion but that's the way I feel. I have nothing against anyone who does any different, we each ahve our own ways. Mine just works best for me and I feel the snake gets the best care that way.

I have heard horror stories and plan to breed females no sooner than two years, preferably three years. I don't want to deal with impacted eggs or a bunch of slugs. What's one more year when it comes to your female's life. I'm not a gambler.

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Originally Posted by tattlife2001

I refuse to breed a female younger than 3 years old. No matter the weight at any age younger she will be 3 years old and atleast 1500 grams at that age.

I am one of those odd ones I only feed once a week nothing more and nothing less. I know a lot of people do feed more often and everything and thats great for them but I would prefer my snakes to live longer and have a better life. It is just an opinion but that's the way I feel. I have nothing against anyone who does any different, we each ahve our own ways. Mine just works best for me and I feel the snake gets the best care that way.

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What makes you think that feeding any more or less than once a week will cause a snake to have a bad life and die any sooner than a snake that has a different feeding schedule? I'm sure you're just playing it safe, but what makes you think that a snake that gorges for a few months, then fasts every year, or a snake that eats a larger meal every 10-14 days would have a worse and shorter life? I'm just curious, because I see people say this a lot, but as far as I know, it's all speculation, making it just as likely that a snake that gorges itself, then fasts will end up living longer.

I would breed probably a 2 year old female, or how some people say it, a female who has gone through her second winter.

PS
To Isis, nice doberman pinscher, I have always wanted one!

I usually wait for my girls to be about 2yrs. and about 1400-1600 grams.

I have been lucky and gotten at least 6 eggs from every female 2 or older, so I'll stick with my luck streak! LMAO! :p

Two years here but this is my second breeding season, if I see that a female is a nice weight I'll try her early.

I think waiting at least two years would be ideal. It's a lot safer, and by then your female may be over 1500 grams (the weight that is recommended to breed a female at) which bigger female= more eggs.

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

What makes you think that feeding any more or less than once a week will cause a snake to have a bad life and die any sooner than a snake that has a different feeding schedule? I'm sure you're just playing it safe, but what makes you think that a snake that gorges for a few months, then fasts every year, or a snake that eats a larger meal every 10-14 days would have a worse and shorter life? I'm just curious, because I see people say this a lot, but as far as I know, it's all speculation, making it just as likely that a snake that gorges itself, then fasts will end up living longer.

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I just stated an opinion and in my opinion over feeding a snake is just like over feeding any other animal. Just how my mind works ya know. I prefer my females to be fed once a week and only a proper sized food item. I know plenty of people who power feed and do great and I also know people who feed every other week and do great. I just prefer my way over anything else it's what works best for me. Nothing scientific about it just how I feel. Plus I have read way to many times that power feeding can cause premature death and I would rather avoid that. No matter how many snakes I ever have they will be pets first and that is how I treat them. To me my pets are family. Well enough babble from me,

i go with a (planned breeding) of a minuim of 1500grams and at least 2 years. whichmeans that my het pied girl is ready she was 2 years this month and is pushing the 1500 grams but i am planning on waiting until fall to get those few extra ggrams on her ..

When it comes to breeding my females, i am going by at least their 3rd winter and 1800 grams. I'd rather wait an extra season, than stunt their growth by breeding them before they are fully grown. I think maturity is just as important as a good size.

Robin
H2 Exotics

I wait until they are at least 2 years old and 1500g. For example. I have an 07 female that is around 950g. I hope to breed her this year if she gets to 1500g. I have another 07 that is a later 07. She's only around 500g (picky eater and has just started eating every week a few months ago) and will not be bred this year even though she is only a few months younger than my other female.

Two years and at least 1500g's, although I would like to do it when there larger for the bigger clutches.

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Originally Posted by tattlife2001

I just stated an opinion and in my opinion over feeding a snake is just like over feeding any other animal. Just how my mind works ya know. I prefer my females to be fed once a week and only a proper sized food item. I know plenty of people who power feed and do great and I also know people who feed every other week and do great. I just prefer my way over anything else it's what works best for me. Nothing scientific about it just how I feel. Plus I have read way to many times that power feeding can cause premature death and I would rather avoid that. No matter how many snakes I ever have they will be pets first and that is how I treat them. To me my pets are family. Well enough babble from me,

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Power-feeding refers to introducing more food to a snake that is swallowing a meal, to trick it into taking more food than it intended to. Power-feeding can cause 'pin-head syndrome', where the snake's body is disproportionally huge, and its head is too small for it. Feeding on a 5 day schedule, particularly for the first year, doesn't cause any abnormal growth. The snakes develop proportionally and thrive. Ball pythons are very good at refusing food if they've had too much, lol.

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

Power-feeding refers to introducing more food to a snake that is swallowing a meal, to trick it into taking more food than it intended to. Power-feeding can cause 'pin-head syndrome', where the snake's body is disproportionally huge, and its head is too small for it. Feeding on a 5 day schedule, particularly for the first year, doesn't cause any abnormal growth. The snakes develop proportionally and thrive. Ball pythons are very good at refusing food if they've had too much, lol.

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I concur, "power feeding" when referring to stuffing more food down a snakes mouth just to add extra weight seems wrong and bad for the snake. But with my snakes I offer food every 3 days or so (I usually feed ASFs, so some of my bigger girls eat a lot of them) and sometimes multiple items and if they eat it great, if they don't I just wait a few days to a week then try again.

To be blunt these are wild animals, and they aren't very smart (but at least smarter than gold fish who will eat too much and cause their stomach to burst heh). If they are hungry they are going to eat, if not they aren't going to (or something in their environment is causing stress, but I think I made myself clear). As long as everything seems ok with them continue with how you want to feed them. I don't really think theres been any rigorous scientific studies done on how often to feed ball pythons at different ages / weights.

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Originally Posted by euphuistical

I don't really think theres been any rigorous scientific studies done on how often to feed ball pythons at different ages / weights.

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You are right; we don't "know" anything for sure. Our feeding schedules are all based on what has worked for us and what has worked for others.

I do believe that snakes can become obese. At what point they are considered obese is an opinion.

Personally, I keep both my adult and hatchling snakes on a diet of one appropriately sized rodent every 7-10 days. Thus far, they are all in perfect health. As growing them slowly has worked well for me, I will continue to do it, but I have no prejudice against people who grow their snakes more quickly; if it keeps the snakes healthy and it works for you, that's great.

Yeah I have been keeping a close eye on obesity among my flock. My mojave female looks like she may be a bit chubby but she's still only like 6 months old so I'm not really sure if it's worth worrying about it. All my 1700g+ females are looking great.

My main concern is one of my normal femles around 850g who hasn't eaten since I've gotten her. Though I've heard this is a common spot for females to go off feed for a bit. And I know 3-4 weeks off feed is nothing to be alarmed at. Just one of those annoying things with working with ball pythons. Small price to pay to working with these beautiful animals.

I didn't answer the poll because this next season is my first year at trying to breed.

From what I have learned from watching, asking questions, and listening I want my girls to be 3 years and a minimum of 1500g.

My reasons for believing this is that waiting until they are at least three years is they will be stronger and more able to give me a better size clutch and better eggs. Weather this is true or not remains to be seen.

Mike

so it sounds like personal preference with the median being around 30 months. I am kind of torn between I have a spider that is 850 empty and a pastel that is 1115 empty both are 08 and with the way the female pastel eats she should have plenty of weight by the start of the year. Wouls any of you attempt to breed them or would you wait until next fall

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Originally Posted by kidkaos520

so it sounds like personal preference with the median being around 30 months. I am kind of torn between I have a spider that is 850 empty and a pastel that is 1115 empty both are 08 and with the way the female pastel eats she should have plenty of weight by the start of the year. Wouls any of you attempt to breed them or would you wait until next fall

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Your best bet is to wait til next season

One year and around 1100 grams, or so. They will breed if they are ready and won't if they are not. I had a 1200 gram girl give me four perfect eggs this season.

Hope this helps.

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Originally Posted by Isis

I have heard horror stories and plan to breed females no sooner than two years, preferably three years. I don't want to deal with impacted eggs or a bunch of slugs. What's one more year when it comes to your female's life. I'm not a gambler.

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These horror stories can happen to larger girls just as often as they happen to smaller girls, if not more. Smaller girls will not become gravid if they are not ready, so your chance of them becoming egg bound are slim. Also the eggs they produce are smaller than larger females, so the egg size ratio is the same. There are many larger breeders, including Adam Wysocki that breed small females with no issues. Here is a link to a post by Adam on this issue: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...smaller&page=3

Also most likely the people that have told you the horror stories have not actually had the issues themselves. They likely heard them from someone that has heard them from someone who heard it from someone else...

two years

I haven't started breeding yet, but my plan as of now is to only breed when the female reaches 1200 grams and at least 18 months old. This is absolute minimum, though. My het Axanthic female should be able to reach that weight by winter, but at that point, she will barely be 18 months. I'm not comfortable with breeding her that early. I might breed her mid-summer, depending on her weight, but most likely, I'll be waiting another year for her.

I haven't started breeding yet but 2 years is my minimum and I'll probably wait until the third on my girl. Weight wise 1,500 is min. and I'd prefer around 1,700g or more.

I think that 2 years and comfortably OVER 1500 grams is the earliest I would breed a female--if the female only just made 1500 at age 2, she'd wait out another year. I wouldn't want to stunt her growth by breeding her early--that seems a very reasonable potential to me.

I agree with Isis, 3 years minimum. It's worth the wait.

18 months old had 3 of my 18 month old girls go & lay nice big clutches.

I have a girl that's 853 grams as of today. I fully expect her to be at least 1600 grams by this time next year, and she may possibly be even larger than that. She is one year old this month.
I don't see any reason she can't breed next year, given her enormous size and growth rate. If she were just barely 1500 going in, I would wait--but it looks like she will be more than large enough. If a female is going to be 1600 to 1800 grams at age 2, why wait? She should have the body reserves at that size to handle the strain of producing eggs while still continuing to grow.

Changed my mind. <lol>

I'm almost not sure what kind of snake everybody is writing about... and since the topic appears to be ball pythons I'm confused about the frequency with which this topic is discussed.

Obese juvenile ball pythons? That's pretty close to being an oxymoron. You know, like jumbo shrimp, military intelligence, freezer burn and low-fat pop-tarts.

I have more than a few ball pythons and I feed the younger ones whenever they will eat. Few snakes are as fickle a feeder as the ball python. Getting females up to breeding size in 18 months is a challenge for even the most vigilant feeding hand. Ball pythons feed when they want and regularly go off feed for weeks or months at a time (with the "1,000-gram wall" being a particularly nasty time). It is the single most frustrating part of raising and breeding ball pythons. My concern level is pretty close to zero when it comes to over-feeding young ball pythons. I consider it an unlikely possibility that they will become overweight. I suppose there are exceptions but they are just that; exceptions.

Older animals? That's a different story. They can get fat. A 3,500 gram ball python can wreck large numbers of rats in a short period of time (and get chunky as a result).

Fat babies? Fat sub-adults? I wish I had that problem. Having young ball pythons that eat non-stop and I have to limit their intake... dream big, Colin. Dream big...

For me it's based on the female to some degree. If she is something that I plan on having for several seasons the answer is always to breed her 3rd winter (~2.5 years) and over 1500g (hopefully 2000g).

If it's something that I'm only using for a season or two the answer would be 1200g minimum for a female 3 winters old or older, 1500g minimum for a female under 3 winters old.

I'm with Colin. 1000g wall sucks....and happens too often on fun projects!

Hope that helps. :)

If I sold someone a "proven" 07 female widget that was 1250 would you try and breed it after quarantine? If you did breed it and it took and you got a nice clutch how would you feel if I were to tell you it was only a 08, im sure you would be upset but would it change anyones mind about the whole minimum age and weight of breeding a female. Not trying to sell anything here just would like to see where everyones mind set it. Also was curious is there any kind of documentation that follows ball pythons in their natural habitat they do it for meerkats why not bps:)

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Originally Posted by kidkaos520

If I sold someone a "proven" 07 female widget that was 1250 would you try and breed it after quarantine? If you did breed it and it took and you got a nice clutch how would you feel if I were to tell you it was only a 08, im sure you would be upset but would it change anyones mind about the whole minimum age and weight of breeding a female. Not trying to sell anything here just would like to see where everyones mind set it. Also was curious is there any kind of documentation that follows ball pythons in their natural habitat they do it for meerkats why not bps:)

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I think you definitely have a good point. I still think I'd wait, just to be safe rather than sorry, but many are ready to breed before others. Likewise, I've got an "07" (was sold to me as an 07) girl that is 3ft long and probably around 500g. Great feeding response, is in perfect health, she's just really small. Genetics also play a major part in safe breeding age.

Three years For me.

I grow em slow. Im in zero rush.

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Originally Posted by kidkaos520

If I sold someone a "proven" 07 female widget that was 1250 would you try and breed it after quarantine?

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Absolutely not. I would assume the snake needed a year off, and spend a year feeding her up to a more reasonable weight for breeding.

2 years, 1200g for us.

I also would give a girl who's new to the collection a year to settle in before breeding her.

This is kind of a hard one to answer. It kind of depends on the female. You can have a female that is over 2 or 3 years old, and over the 1500g mark. She still may not be ready to breed. Its not just about an age or a weight. If I had a 3 year old female that was six foot long and only 1500g. She wouldn't be ready. A six foot female at only 1500g would be to skinny, I would think. For me its not really an age thing. I go by weight and how the female looks. If they are 1500g to 2000g I will try to breed them,if they have good size to them. If they are 2000g and look skinny, then they don't get bred. Even if they are old enough, and weigh enough.

You cant always go by the, 18 months old,1500g rule. Or even the two or three year old rule. I have an 06 female and I just paired her up for the first time less than a week ago. She ate like normal, went off food like a normal ball python. Just a slow grower. She was old enough, weighed enough, but was to skinny.

Well thats what I do, and my thoughts on the subject.

I feed my females more than I feed my males. Too me, I cannot have a chubby female Ball, because you never know if they are feeding like crazy for a few months and bulking up because they know a fast is coming on.

I have had a skinny 1500 gram female that I did not breed. I have had 1200 gram females that are solid, that would probably be close to the 1500 gram mark by the time they were ready to lay, since they were still on food, that I have bred. I have not gotten eggs from a female smaller than 1400 grams, 95% of my females are at least 1500 grams by the time I breed them and usually between 2 and 3 years old.

I suppose you could breed a 1000 gram female if she was solid, with great body mass, but I am of the opinion that 7 eggs next year are better than probably getting 3 eggs this year. The only time I would say 3 eggs this year are great, is if I was trying to prove out a new morph.

I use 2-3 years old and 1500 grams with good body weight and mass as my rule of thumb.

Dave

Well Starting at the beginning of last month I started pairing my 15 month old and 1450 gram female spider with my cinnamon het ghost male and have had a couple of locks since then. My theory on it is if she is old/big enough she will go, If not then she wont take. But I'll tell you what since I started pairing she has been on a roll with eating. Before pairing her she would only eat 1 asf rat or 1 mouse a week since may but now she is taking small rats with gusto. So even if she doesn't become gravid by the pairings at least she will gain some weight from the regular rats!

I too generally go by a 2 years old and 1500 grams rule, but I too also take into account the female's overall body shape--too skinny and I don't breed her.

I've seen Adam's post before on weights at first breeding vs the number of eggs she produces over her life. Personally, I would prefer to hold off on breeding one more year if I need to, if it means that when she's a full-grown adult, she will give me nice 12-14 egg clutches as opposed to 6 egg clutches for the rest of her life. I mean, it's one year, one clutch that you'd be missing out on, but that female might have the potential to lay 10-12 egg clutches (even if you're considering it conservatively) for ~10 years. Do the math: 10 years X 11 eggs: 110 eggs. 11 years X 6 eggs: 66 eggs. Big difference. ;) And I'd rather wait that year if need be and see if the female will reach that potential.

I got a 2008 female that I'm going to give a go this spring.. :D If the het's I got first of the year keep growing like they are they might have a go late the season.. :D

We'll see how it goes

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Originally Posted by Crazy4Herps

As long as a female is up to breeding weight, what is the earliest you'd breed her?

New to the breeding scene and I know there are a lot of opinions. Your thoughts?

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I have a 20 month old female pied clown that just ovulated and should drop her 7 egg clutch In about 27 days, but most of my females are not large enough to breed until they're 3 years old. With me it's all about the weight if they are at 1500 grams or more they breed.

Good luck

Brian