Help me ID my Het BELs

I really struggle with Butter v. Lesser v. Mojave. I know that you'll see light and dark phases of each.
I know what I bought all three of these as, but have heard different things, so am posting this looking for your initial thoughts of what each of these 3 morphs are.
Thank you!


#1
http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/v.../Gracie007.jpg
http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/v.../Gracie004.jpg

#2
http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/v...ons/2Helio.jpg
http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/v...ions/Helio.jpg
http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/v.../lesser002.jpg

#3
http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/v.../Velvet003.jpg

I am going to guess 1. Lesser 2. Butter 3. Mojave

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sheffernan13

I am going to guess 1. Lesser 2. Butter 3. Mojave

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Yup, me too

Based on the pictures...they look like 1. mojo, 2. lesser, and 3. mojo.

I can't put my finger on the first one, but #2 looks very lesser-ish to me, and the last is def. a mojo.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JLC

Based on the pictures...they look like 1. mojo, 2. lesser, and 3. mojo.

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That is my guess as well. The markings on 1 and 3 are floaty more like a mojo, and the side colorings are more olive like a mojo. 2 could be lesser or butter - they both are too close for me to tell the difference.

Heres my guess. 1. Butter 2. Lesser 3.Mojo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JLC

Based on the pictures...they look like 1. mojo, 2. lesser, and 3. mojo.

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This would be my guess as well.:)

1. Lesser 2. Butter 3. Mojave

I agree that 1 and 3 look like mojos, but if you say you bought one of each, then i would go with 1 being a lesser, 2 butter, and three mojo. Lessers and butters look very close, but mojo are lacking alot of the yellow tones that butters and lessers both have.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MKHerps

I agree that 1 and 3 look like mojos, but if you say you bought one of each, then i would go with 1 being a lesser, 2 butter, and three mojo. Lessers and butters look very close, but mojo are lacking alot of the yellow tones that butters and lessers both have.

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Ahhh, but that's not what she said - she said:

Quote:

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I know what I bought all three of these as

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So, when are you going to spill the beans as to what they were purchased as? :P

I agree with Judy, looks like 2 Mojaves and a Lesser to me too. It's the pattern that makes me think they look like two Mojos.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Patrick Long

Yup, me too

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Me 3!

Daniel

1- butter
2- lesser
3- mojave

# 1 and #3 looks mojo to me, and #2 is definitely a lesser.:) Very nice lesser indeed

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jopay

# 1 and #3 looks mojo to me, and #2 is definitely a lesser.:) Very nice lesser indeed

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This, though I am not sure if the lesser is a butter or a lesser- those I cannot tell apart. The last one is a clone of my own Mojo.

When I get a few more opinions :) I would like to know why people think the way they do. We just may spark a great conversation on what specific qualities of each morph each one posses and what people look for. I cannot tell butters v. lessers apart to save my life. Recently I saw a very dark so-called lesser, now I'm just confused...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

So, when are you going to spill the beans as to what they were purchased as? :P

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1- Mojo
2- Lesser
3- Mojo

My best guess, FWIW.

Seems like #1 = Lesser, #2 = Butter, and #3 = Mojo

I'd say:

1 mojo
2 butter/lesser
3 mojo

If I had to guess one of each I'd say 1 is a dark lesser

On second thought, they look like 3 normals. You've been had, send them to me for positive ID.

No doubt unless they are poor examples of the morph.

1: Mojave
2: Lesser (and a hot one at that)
3: Mojave

I'm far from an expert....and I have my own opinion about the whole lesser/butter issue. But since you want to know why folks guessed as they did, I'll tell you my thoughts.

1. First picture I immediately thought "mojo" because of the somewhat "floaty" affect on the pattern, and the brown coloring that lacks any yellow. When I saw the second picture, I thought "HOT mojo!" :D Beautiful flames and blushing...but still looks like a mojo to me. The hints of yellow I see in the second picture aren't in the right place of the pattern to be a lesser.

2. I thought "lesser" right away when I saw the first picture. Beautiful faded blushing all along the back pattern and nice shadings of yellow in the alien heads. And what spots he has are light in color, rather than dark. To me, a butter shows a lot more yellow in the pattern and tend to be brighter than lessers....but I'm still not convinced they're actually two separate morphs, but rather, two variants of the same morph...just like normals can be light or dark or high yellow, but they're all still normals. That's just my inexperienced opinion, though.

3. Seems like most everyone agrees this one is mojo. Not a doubt in my mind when I saw the picture. Floaty pattern, rich brown colors, lots of light coloration/flames on the sides. Not quite as hot as #1...but definitely a beauty!

1. Looks like a very dark Mojo or a Butter.
2. Lesser
3. Mojo

I hope I don't miss it when she posts what she bought them as. ;)

I'm about as far as you can get from an expert, but my guess from what I've seen is:

#1: Lesser? I find it hard to see the difference in some, but I picked Lesser because of the lighter greenish-yellow colors and the light brown. Although some mojaves are light that I've seen.

#2: Butter - Lighter browns, but I'm puzzled because the pattern is going from brown up top to yellow towards the belly instead of yellow at the top turning brown towards the belly.

#3: Mojave - There's no doubt, classic mojave. Dark browns, light blushing, mojo pattern.

Again, I don't know much, but that's my guess.

1 butter or lesser
2 lesser
3 mojave

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Corvid

When I get a few more opinions :) I would like to know why people think the way they do. We just may spark a great conversation on what specific qualities of each morph each one posses and what people look for. I cannot tell butters v. lessers apart to save my life. Recently I saw a very dark so-called lesser, now I'm just confused...

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basically butters have more gold coloring, as adults they differ a little more. but theres examples of each looking like the other, i think pastel adults are worse, some pastel adults just look normal to me, while some normals are just glowing.

You know, I was thinking that I am sick of trying to figure out what's what, and should get rid of them. Thank goodness I've got someone like you to take them off my hands!! ;)
Well, maybe I shouldn't.....My husband would KILL me!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by herpenthusiast

On second thought, they look like 3 normals. You've been had, send them to me for positive ID.

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Thank you EVERYONE for your input. But I'm still confused and don't know what I should sell their offspring (when/if they come in 2010) as....

I bought #1 from Craig'slist as a Mojo. I won't post her price because everyone will hate me.

I got #2 from an expo as a Lesser. Again, I got a STEAL on this snake. I don't look for cheap snakes, I look for good snakes, the price is just a very nice bonus. He will be bred to both #1 and #3, I am interested to see the difference in the BELs when/if they come.

I got #3 as a mojo (SHOCK!) ;)

I want to be a good, honest, high quality breeder. So when I go to sell BELs from #1x#2 I don't know what I should mark them as. Should I try to sell them as lesserxlesser, butterxlesser or mojoxlesser?

What would YOU do if these were your snakes?
By no means do I want to lie to or mislead my buyer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JLC

I'm far from an expert....and I have my own opinion about the whole lesser/butter issue. But since you want to know why folks guessed as they did, I'll tell you my thoughts.

1. First picture I immediately thought "mojo" because of the somewhat "floaty" affect on the pattern, and the brown coloring that lacks any yellow. When I saw the second picture, I thought "HOT mojo!" :D Beautiful flames and blushing...but still looks like a mojo to me. The hints of yellow I see in the second picture aren't in the right place of the pattern to be a lesser.

2. I thought "lesser" right away when I saw the first picture. Beautiful faded blushing all along the back pattern and nice shadings of yellow in the alien heads. And what spots he has are light in color, rather than dark. To me, a butter shows a lot more yellow in the pattern and tend to be brighter than lessers....but I'm still not convinced they're actually two separate morphs, but rather, two variants of the same morph...just like normals can be light or dark or high yellow, but they're all still normals. That's just my inexperienced opinion, though.

3. Seems like most everyone agrees this one is mojo. Not a doubt in my mind when I saw the picture. Floaty pattern, rich brown colors, lots of light coloration/flames on the sides. Not quite as hot as #1...but definitely a beauty!

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id agree.... either way.... i think ur on the right track to some white snakes :gj:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Corvid

Thank you EVERYONE for your input. But I'm still confused and don't know what I should sell their offspring (when/if they come in 2010) as....

I bought #1 from Craig'slist as a Mojo. I won't post her price because everyone will hate me.

I got #2 from an expo as a Lesser. Again, I got a STEAL on this snake. I don't look for cheap snakes, I look for good snakes, the price is just a very nice bonus. He will be bred to both #1 and #3, I am interested to see the difference in the BELs when/if they come.

I got #3 as a mojo (SHOCK!) ;)

I want to be a good, honest, high quality breeder. So when I go to sell BELs from #1x#2 I don't know what I should mark them as. Should I try to sell them as lesserxlesser, butterxlesser or mojoxlesser?

What would YOU do if these were your snakes?
By no means do I want to lie to or mislead my buyer.

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I think majority of the people agree that the first one is a Mojo and the second two are Lesser and Mojo. Lesser and Butter are really up to you, but if you bought it as a Lesser from an expo I think you'd be safe.

I would say the first one is a Mojave and leave it at that. If anyone questions, you can explain the unknown origin of the animal but it clearly proved out!

If all else fails, look at the babies from the clutches, usually morphs seem more prime in their hatchling phase.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Corvid

Thank you EVERYONE for your input. But I'm still confused and don't know what I should sell their offspring (when/if they come in 2010) as....

I bought #1 from Craig'slist as a Mojo. I won't post her price because everyone will hate me.

I got #2 from an expo as a Lesser. Again, I got a STEAL on this snake. I don't look for cheap snakes, I look for good snakes, the price is just a very nice bonus. He will be bred to both #1 and #3, I am interested to see the difference in the BELs when/if they come.

I got #3 as a mojo (SHOCK!) ;)

I want to be a good, honest, high quality breeder. So when I go to sell BELs from #1x#2 I don't know what I should mark them as. Should I try to sell them as lesserxlesser, butterxlesser or mojoxlesser?

What would YOU do if these were your snakes?
By no means do I want to lie to or mislead my buyer.

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If the odds work out correctly when you breed 1 and 2, you should see some mojos, lessers and bels. if you don't get mojo's the first breeding, it won't mean 1 isn't a mojo though, you'd need to breed a few times to come to that conclusion.

However, to me - #1 is clearly a mojo - that's why my guesses were mojo, lesser, mojo. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Corvid

Thank you EVERYONE for your input. But I'm still confused and don't know what I should sell their offspring (when/if they come in 2010) as....

I bought #1 from Craig'slist as a Mojo. I won't post her price because everyone will hate me.

I got #2 from an expo as a Lesser. Again, I got a STEAL on this snake. I don't look for cheap snakes, I look for good snakes, the price is just a very nice bonus. He will be bred to both #1 and #3, I am interested to see the difference in the BELs when/if they come.

I got #3 as a mojo (SHOCK!) ;)

I want to be a good, honest, high quality breeder. So when I go to sell BELs from #1x#2 I don't know what I should mark them as. Should I try to sell them as lesserxlesser, butterxlesser or mojoxlesser?

What would YOU do if these were your snakes?
By no means do I want to lie to or mislead my buyer.

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I would mark any BEL's as mojo x lesser. #1 looks like a textbook A grade mojo. The offspring should be stunning. Congrats on nice pickups.