New here. Need help!!! May have made a HUGE mistake!

First off, Hi everyone!

I'm brand new to ball pythons...I purchased my first normal female ball about a month ago. She's eating extremely well, very friendly, seems to be healthy, etc.

Here's where I made my mistake: Knowing little to nothing about ball pythons, I went to my local reptile show today and purchased another. A normal male, I was told he was HET for something, but I don't even remember what. I came home and stupidly put him directly in the tank with my female, not quarantining him for even a day. I only own one tank, a 28 gallon aquarium I've converted into a nice little snake habitat. I get paid on Wednesday, and I will immediately rush out after work and get a second enclosure for this new snake.

Now for my question...did I just possibly kill both snakes by not quarantining the male? What measures can I take now to remedy this? I can't believe I even thought I could house two snakes together, let alone not quarantine them. Will they be okay until Wednesday, or should I put the male in a tupperware until then? Please, no hate. I feel bad enough about this as is, I'm just trying to fix the situation. :tears:

quarantining is only a precaution, because infections (most notably resperatory infections), and other transmittable diseases such as IBD are just that, transmittable.

In all likelihood neither of your snakes carries anything deadly, heck they are probably pretty healthy snakes if they came from somewhere that takes good care of the animals. IBD is fatal but shows up pretty quickly in pythons. RI can be treated easily if caught early.

Don't feel bad, there are people out there who wouldn't even care even after learning of small mistakes :D

First off, WELCOME!!!

Second, CALM DOWN!!!! It isn't the end of the world. Many people make the mistake of not quarantining their animals and 90% of the time nothing goes wrong. But sometimes, things happen which causes both of the animals quite a bit of harm.

I can already tell that you sound like a responsible keeper who is trying to do the best for your animals. I have these moments too sometimes...brain farts...lapses in judgment, whatever, everyone makes mistakes.

As soon as you can, set up the male in his own house and try to keep him in a separate room from the female if possible. Keep them separated for at least a month, longer if you can manage it.

Right now, you could try to create some kind of divider in the tank you have so they at least have their own space. Make sure not to use any tape for this though. BPs have a tendency to stick themselves to tape :/

Now, If you happen to have $20 to spare, I can give you details on how to set him up in his own fancy storage tub. I understand money can be tight sometimes.

Relax, breathe, and Welcome!

Now, as for your situation, I would suggest seperating them as soon as possible, but making sure that the husbandry of the animals is up to par for both living spaces is very important.

If you don't have any money, it is a mute point, but as soon as you can, make sure to seperate them.

You didn't automatically kill your snakes by not quarantining, but there is a chance that you may have transmitted illnesses or parasites from one to the other because you didn't quarantine. THAT is why it is very important to do so.

BUT!!! You are going to have to watch them very closely as soon as you do get them situated alone. Check for any signs of illness and/or parasites, and do take them into a vet when you get a chance as well.

If you can, get a 28 or 32 qt tub to put the male in temporarily. Make sure it has a heat source on one side (heat pad with thermostat is ideal), and that the tub has holes for air.

Other than that, handle it until Weds.

It should be okay.

Thanks, I feel a little better :)

I went ahead and popped him in a huge tupperware for now, but I don't have an extra heat source I can give him. Will he be okay without a heat source for a couple of days, or would I be better off leaving him in the tank with the female?

Silly me, I thought I would try my hand at breeding. If I had known 12 hours ago what I know now...:banana:

Your are probably better off housing the two snakes together until you get paid on wedensday and can purchase all the stuff need fro proper care. Heat is important to thier well being if it gets to cold for him it can cuase improper digestion, thier immune systems to weaken. Increasing the risks in the long run. This is just my opinion on what you should do. As long as the snakes arent too old housing them together shouldnt be a big issue as long as your not feeding them together. You shouldnt feed him for at least a week or two so he can get adjusted to his new surroundings and less stress.

Ok, I will house them together unless told otherwise. Thanks alot, everyone. I really appreciate the help. Now, would anyone like to see my setup/snakes? :) The male is strangely colored, IMO. The female just ate today, so I don't want to bug her, but I can probably snap a few pics if anyone's interested. I'm pretty proud of my setup, it took me a long time. :)

Sure we are lways happy to see other herpers work. One other thing make sure you have more then one hide so they can get away from each other if they want it is more a stress thing versus a danger thing.

Here's Legs, the female. This pic wasn't taken today, she just ate and I don't want to bother her. She's a bit bigger now.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...n427/Legs1.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...n427/Legs2.jpg

And here's her tank:
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...7/legstank.jpg

And last, but not least, here's Arms, the male. Does he look oddly marked to anyone else?
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...n427/arms1.jpg

that female is smokin hot!

So tell us about the three H's for both sides of that enclosure:
Heat
Humidity
Hides

The reasons why you should always quarantine incoming snakes is because that incoming snake could have RI (respiratory infection), IBD (inclusion body disease), internal/external parasites (worms/mites, ticks, fleas, etc.), scale rot, mouth rot, and things such as that. First, check both snakes for any of the things I listed. If you aren't sure what some are, like RI or IBD, research them then after you know what it is check the snake for any symptoms. If you notice no signs of external parasites or sickness, keep a very close eye on both snakes. Keep a close eye on them for the next few weeks to make sure your female hasn't caught anything and the male doesn't have anything. Hopefully both snakes are healthy and doing well.:please:

Also, since you have two different sexes in the same enclosure, there could possibly be mating involved. If you aren't ready for eggs, and your female isn't the correct weight to produce eggs, keep the male in a plastic container. Breeding is a problem with most snakes when both sexes are put in the same enclosure, that is if you and your female are not ready.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fishmommy

that female is smokin hot!

So tell us about the three H's for both sides of that enclosure:
Heat
Humidity
Hides

---

Thanks! She's sweet, I love her :)

The left side is the hot side. I have a Zoo Med undertank heater that I put on the side of my tank. She has two hides on that side, one a cave-like hide, and then her favorite hide which is an old broken ceramic mask. I don't know why she favors the mask, it's less enclosed, but that's always her first choice. The left side is the cool side, and there's a broken plant pot on that side that she uses basically only as a toilet :rolleyes:. The water bowl is that huge rock thing in the middle. I don't have to do much to add humidity other than mist occasionally, because of the volume of open water that evaporates. She loves the logs so much, you'd think she was arboreal! She's not on them now because she just ate a tasty mouse this afternoon and is in one of her warm side hides digesting :) I think I need to get a heat lamp, as well, but since I have an aquarium with a glass top, it doesn't circulate much air (I made air holes, but it's not enough to let out much heat). Should I try a ceramic heat bulb? I need to get a thermostat. The ambient temp is around 83 on the warm side, i'm not sure about the cool. She only goes on the cool side to sit on her log, generally when she's hungry. She's a voracious eater!

nice set up but I dont see any hides in it, maybe they well camoflaged but you will definately want to get a hide (perferably 2 one on each side.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by derrabe

nice set up but I dont see any hides in it, maybe they well camoflaged but you will definately want to get a hide (perferably 2 one on each side.)

---

There's two on the warm side, and one on the cool. I camouflaged them pretty well :)

Let me see more of the male? Am I nuts, but he looks kind of like a Cinny to me in a way :)

I like them both. We made the same mistake you did... live and learn. I bet it'll be okay!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BallPythonLOVER

Also, since you have two different sexes in the same enclosure, there could possibly be mating involved. If you aren't ready for eggs, and your female isn't the correct weight to produce eggs, keep the male in a plastic container. Breeding is a problem with most snakes when both sexes are put in the same enclosure, that is if you and your female are not ready.

---

The female and male are obviously not of size to breed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheOtherLeadingBrand

Let me see more of the male? Am I nuts, but he looks kind of like a Cinny to me in a way :)

I like them both. We made the same mistake you did... live and learn. I bet it'll be okay!

---

The male won't hold still! He's been going non-stop since I brought him home! Here's a couple more pics:

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...n427/arms3.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...n427/arms2.jpg

The breeder said he was HET for something, probably pastel or spider as those were the two morphs he had with him at the KC reptile show. I'll call him tomorrow and make sure, I was too overly excited about getting snake number 2 to listen to him!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ArmsandLegs

The male won't hold still! He's been going non-stop since I brought him home! Here's a couple more pics:

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...n427/arms3.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...n427/arms2.jpg

The breeder said he was HET for something, probably pastel or spider as those were the two morphs he had with him at the KC reptile show. I'll call him tomorrow and make sure, I was too overly excited about getting snake number 2 to listen to him!

---

Not het for pastel or spider, because neither of those are recessive. No such thing as het spider or het pastel. Did you get the breeder's name? You might be able to contact him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rabernet

Not het for pastel or spider, because neither of those are recessive. No such thing as het spider or het pastel. Did you get the breeder's name? You might be able to contact him.

---

Yep, got his card and stuff. I'm really just guessing at what he said he was HET for. I'll call him as soon as the reptile show is over and he's got a minute. Or I guess I could just breed them when the time comes and find out what he's HET for :)

you should be fine in my local pet store they have 8 baby bps in one small container :mad:

Well he is awesome looking!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheOtherLeadingBrand

Well he is awesome looking!

---

Thanks!!!! :) You are all so supportive!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ArmsandLegs

Yep, got his card and stuff. I'm really just guessing at what he said he was HET for. I'll call him as soon as the reptile show is over and he's got a minute. Or I guess I could just breed them when the time comes and find out what he's HET for :)

---

Except that you'll need a female that's het for the same thing to prove him out! And there are quite a few recessive genes (albino, hypo, pied, clown, g-stripe, just to name a few). :)

I am still learning, but let us know what he is. I think he looks really neat. Your girl is beautiful too.

This is a great site!!!

For the record, here's my two black pastels... which I think your male resembles a bit :)

Female, Sharmelle:

http://www.iherp.com/Gallery/90980/2...G7oPaxdn2Q.jpg

Male, Booker:

http://www.iherp.com/Gallery/90980/2...kJWOAzPOhJ.jpg

http://www.iherp.com/Gallery/90980/2...iwoNVQNME1.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rabernet

Except that you'll need a female that's het for the same thing to prove him out! And there are quite a few recessive genes (albino, hypo, pied, clown, g-stripe, just to name a few). :)

---

I'd be perfectly happy just to get a healthy clutch of normal balls out of the deal :) Morphs are awesome, but waaaaay over my head at this point. One day, though. One day...:snake:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheOtherLeadingBrand

I am still learning, but let us know what he is. I think he looks really neat. Your girl is beautiful too.

This is a great site!!!

For the record, here's my two black pastels... which I think your male resembles a bit :)

Female, Sharmelle:

http://www.iherp.com/Gallery/90980/2...G7oPaxdn2Q.jpg

Male, Booker:

http://www.iherp.com/Gallery/90980/2...kJWOAzPOhJ.jpg

http://www.iherp.com/Gallery/90980/2...iwoNVQNME1.jpg

---

Wowwww! They're gorgeous! I can only hope my male grows up to even slightly resemble that!!! How much do black pastels usually run, price wise?

Yup, if you're like us... you'll become a crazy snake addict... and your two will become twenty... and your house will have tanks in every room! And then you'll think, "Man, I need a snake rack" and then you'll think, "Well, hell, now I can get some more snakes" ;) We're at the "Man, I need a snake rack" stage right now.

Our were $300 each I think... the girl may have been $350. They're subtle, but I love them!!! Check out Cinnys too, they're very similar. There's so many awesome morphs... two black pastels bred together make a super black pastel (a black ball python). Oh, I could talk about this all night! lol A friend of mine just got two new balls tonight- her first- I got her hooked!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheOtherLeadingBrand

Our were $300 each I think... the girl may have been $350. They're subtle, but I love them!!! Check out Cinnys too, they're very similar. There's so many awesome morphs... two black pastels bred together make a super black pastel (a black ball python). Oh, I could talk about this all night! lol A friend of mine just got two new balls tonight- her first- I got her hooked!

---

AWESOME!!! I would LOVE a black BP. I really want a bumblebee, or a leucistic, but those are going to empty my retirement fund, I believe. :rofl:

Hey get two Mojaves, they make a leucistic! We have a pair of Mojaves too... who could resist? They're lookers in their own right!

My friend got a spider and pastel today, because she wants a bee!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheOtherLeadingBrand

Hey get two Mojaves, they make a leucistic! We have a pair of Mojaves too... who could resist? They're lookers in their own right!

My friend got a spider and pastel today, because she wants a bee!

---

I just may have to do that! I'm going to spend my Saturday night looking up BP morphs now :)

Hi!! I'm from Topeka, and was at the show all day today. Hope you had as much fun as I did. It could be ghost or albino. Those were the only two hets I remember seeing. If you think about it I was wearing a white t-shirt with an albino on it that says "Got Balls?"

We brought home a gorgeous Pastel female het for Ghost. Tell what booth you bought him at and I'll try and remember what I remember seeing there. If you need any additional help, I'm pretty close by, just pm me.

Maybe we can meet up sometime in the future if yours is a het ghost. Mine is only possible 66%, but I'd love to try and prove her out with your male. She has plans already with my pastel, when she's old enough. Which will be awhile since she's only 106 g's. But maybe after I get my super we can work out a deal with the babies.

Anyway, hit me up anytime if you need anything. Later!

About the Het thing, did the breeder say that the animal was Possible Het for something or a certain percentage like 50% het or 66% het??
How much did you pay for him approximately? It could help determine the het. If he was under 80$ IMO, he's probably possible het (%) which means he has a certain percentage out of the clutch of being one of the hets, but could or could not carry the actual gene.

Also, good job at spotting your problems right away. Check out this caresheet and make you husbandry on spot, it's important to try and not miss anything if possible. That female is also very pretty, having a reduced pattern with few alien heads is very nice for breeding and cleaning up morphs!

Well, if you don't mind a bit of enclosure criticism :)

What are you measuring your temps with? You should have some digital thermometers with a probe. You should have one under the substrate on the glass where the UTH to make sure your hot side isn't too hot.

Your best option would be to get two identical hides so the snake doesn't sacrifice proper temps for security. They will pick their favorite. The best kind to get are those rock cave types with the small opening in the front.

The tank you have is quite tall. Ball pythons are terrestrial snakes and don't need more than 12" of headroom. You might think that they enjoy climbing and what not but the only reason they do it is usually because of stress (they are looking for a way out).

I think your enclosure is due for a few upgrades (thermostat!). Hopefully you will be seeing some money shortly so you can spoil your slitheries.

Mistakes wouldn't be mistakes if we couldn't learn from them...;) :welcome: and calm down...you're in the right place..:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaorte

Well, if you don't mind a bit of enclosure criticism :)

What are you measuring your temps with? You should have some digital thermometers with a probe. You should have one under the substrate on the glass where the UTH to make sure your hot side isn't too hot.

Your best option would be to get two identical hides so the snake doesn't sacrifice proper temps for security. They will pick their favorite. The best kind to get are those rock cave types with the small opening in the front.

The tank you have is quite tall. Ball pythons are terrestrial snakes and don't need more than 12" of headroom. You might think that they enjoy climbing and what not but the only reason they do it is usually because of stress (they are looking for a way out).

I think your enclosure is due for a few upgrades (thermostat!). Hopefully you will be seeing some money shortly so you can spoil your slitheries.

---

Got a thermostat today. Thanks, I definitely needed one, turns out the UTH was placed on the side and not giving nearly enough heat. The substrate on the hot side is a steady 83 degrees now. The male has been moved to a plastic sterlite with a ZooMed UTH. Will the UTH melt the plastic? I'm kinda nervous about it...Man, I have learned SO much being on this forum for only one day! :bow:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ArmsandLegs

Got a thermostat today. Thanks, I definitely needed one, turns out the UTH was placed on the side and not giving nearly enough heat. The substrate on the hot side is a steady 83 degrees now. The male has been moved to a plastic sterlite with a ZooMed UTH. Will the UTH melt the plastic? I'm kinda nervous about it...Man, I have learned SO much being on this forum for only one day! :bow:

---

83 for your hotside? That is REALLY low. It should be around 92-94*.

If a UTH would melt plastic, it would melt your BP in a glass tank. :P So no, they do not melt plastic.

What kind of thermometers are you using?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaorte

83 for your hotside? That is REALLY low. It should be around 92-94*.

If a UTH would melt plastic, it would melt your BP in a glass tank. :P So no, they do not melt plastic.

What kind of thermometers are you using?

---

Crap, I think I need to drop my substrate levels. I'm using Aspen, about two inches...that may be why it's so low. I bought two of the ZooMed digital therms with a probe. The probe is barely resting on the substrate, so it may be a more ambient temp. I'll drop the substrate levels and see if that helps.

The only reason I'm worried about the plastic and UTH is the ZooMed ones specifically say not for use on plastic...does anyone else use the ZooMed ones? Or am I overreacting? Wouldn't be the first time ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ArmsandLegs

Crap, I think I need to drop my substrate levels. I'm using Aspen, about two inches...that may be why it's so low. I bought two of the ZooMed digital therms with a probe. The probe is barely resting on the substrate, so it may be a more ambient temp. I'll drop the substrate levels and see if that helps.

The only reason I'm worried about the plastic and UTH is the ZooMed ones specifically say not for use on plastic...does anyone else use the ZooMed ones? Or am I overreacting? Wouldn't be the first time ;)

---

Yeah two inches is probably too much. one should be just fine. Make sure you put the probe right on the glass UNDER the substrate. 94* should be the hottest point in the entire tank, not the substrate surface temp. 83* is a good ambient temp.

They say not to use them on plastic because they can heat up to 115* or more unregulated. As long as you are regulating it, your tub and snake will be just fine. I have used a zoomed heat pad with a tub just fine.

:) These are normal questions and they get asked frequently.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaorte

Yeah two inches is probably too much. one should be just fine. Make sure you put the probe right on the glass UNDER the substrate. 94* should be the hottest point in the entire tank, not the substrate surface temp. 83* is a good ambient temp.

They say not to use them on plastic because they can heat up to 115* or more unregulated. As long as you are regulating it, your tub and snake will be just fine. I have used a zoomed heat pad with a tub just fine.

:) These are normal questions and they get asked frequently.

---

So do I need to get a rheostat before I use it on the plastic? It's on there now, it seems like the bottom has warped a bit since I put in on earlier today.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ArmsandLegs

So do I need to get a rheostat before I use it on the plastic? It's on there now, it seems like the bottom has warped a bit since I put in on earlier today.

---

You need a rheostat or thermostat with a UTH always.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaorte

You need a rheostat or thermostat with a UTH always.

---

Okay, I can go out and get a couple tomorrow. Will it be okay for tonight?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ArmsandLegs

Okay, I can go out and get a couple tomorrow. Will it be okay for tonight?

---

I would unplug it :/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaorte

I would unplug it :/

---

Eek! Will my snakey-poo die?

I really appreciate the help!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ArmsandLegs

Eek! Will my snakey-poo die?

I really appreciate the help!

---

Well, an over heated UTH could burn or cook your snake. Do you have a heat lamp or a space heater you could use until tomorrow?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaorte

Well, an over heated UTH could burn or cook your snake. Do you have a heat lamp or a space heater you could use until tomorrow?

---

Nope. Won't my snake go to the cool side if he's hot?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ArmsandLegs

Nope. Won't my snake go to the cool side if he's hot?

---

Not necessarily. I don't think they really know if they get too hot, thus how burns happen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaorte

Not necessarily. I don't think they really know if they get too hot, thus how burns happen.

---

Both the thermometer probes on the bottom of each cage (touching the bottom, not just the substrate, now) have stayed pretty steady at 84.2 for about thirty minutes now. I gotta go to bed, I have to work early. I think I'll unplug the plastic for tonight, and leave my females on the glass tank as is, she's been doing good with it thusfar.

Whew, this is hard work :) My female is getting grumpy with me for messing with her home so much :)