Caramel/pastel mystery solved!!

Well, the last clutch from that male Caramel albino that fathered the pastel earlier in the season has pipped/hatched (mother was a normal het caramel), and even though there were only three eggs, the results are illuminating:
http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/...rapast-med.jpg
http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/...ranorm-med.jpg

That's right, a perfect little pastel caramel albino, plus another regular caramel albino. To clinch things, the third egg has pipped, and contains yet another pastel! So, in three clutches, this male has sired: 5 caramels, 2 pastels, 3 normal hets, and at least(one of the other caramels bears reexamination)1 pastel caramel!

So it looks like our male was a Pastel Caramel after all, so no "spontaneous mutation" or "new line" pastels, unfortunately. But I am nonetheless relieved to finally know what is actually going on!:banana:

Thanks to everyone who very helpfully provided input on this clutch over the last several weeks!

Well, congratulations Brad! Sounds like a great season! You should link to your other thread, so those who aren't familiar with that story can catch up on it!

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Originally Posted by BChambers

So, in three clutches, this male has sired: 5 caramels, 2 pastels, 3 normal hets, and at least(one of the other caramels bears reexamination)1 pastel caramel!

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Sounds like your stud is a keeper! :banana:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Well, congratulations Brad! Sounds like a great season! You should link to your other thread, so those who aren't familiar with that story can catch up on it!

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You're right-here's the original thread:

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=94358

That's great! Congrats! Thanks for the update, Brad.

Yes, awesome pastel caramel too!

Well I guess the question to be asked is how/why did a keeper produce a pastel Caramel and sell it as a normal caramel? Did your male come from a caramel pastel clutch and the breeder did not think it was one?

Ryan Young

I think ryan has a good question... Guess you came out on the good end of a deal!!!

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Originally Posted by Ryan Young

Well I guess the question to be asked is how/why did a keeper produce a pastel Caramel and sell it as a normal caramel? Did your male come from a caramel pastel clutch and the breeder did not think it was one?

Ryan Young

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All I can think is that he got the parents mixed up-our male came from different parents than he thought? Whatever happened, we're not going to complain!

Great story, excellent outcome....Congrats:gj:

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Originally Posted by BChambers

So it looks like our male was a Pastel Caramel after all, so no "spontaneous mutation" or "new line" pastels, unfortunately.

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Or perhaps the spontaneous mutation is in your male, rather than in his pastel offspring?

It would explain how the original breeder thought there was no possibility the snake carried a pastel gene. And even if you assume the breeder got confused about which animals he'd bred, did he even have a pastel caramel or pastel het caramel to have put in the mix to get the pastel caramel outcome?

Anyway, glad to see the mystery has been at least partially solved! Congrats!

Tom Crutchfield produced a firefly from a fire bred to a "normal" light female this year. It seems the pastel gene can be almost unnoticeable in the poorest examples of the morph.

Well at least now you know you got more than you paid for in the first place!

SWEET ANIMAL Brad -- and interesting story!!! Congrats.:banana:

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Originally Posted by kc261

Or perhaps the spontaneous mutation is in your male, rather than in his pastel offspring?

It would explain how the original breeder thought there was no possibility the snake carried a pastel gene. And even if you assume the breeder got confused about which animals he'd bred, did he even have a pastel caramel or pastel het caramel to have put in the mix to get the pastel caramel outcome?

Anyway, glad to see the mystery has been at least partially solved! Congrats!

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Casey-You're of course correct-that is entirely possible-in fact, given the appearance of the sire's parents, I think it's quite likely. Unfortunately, since it didn't happen"on my watch", so to speak, I don't believe I can ethically advertise this as a "new pastel line". Too bad.:sigh2:

Very cool! Congrats on those odds, and those two babies are gorgeous!:gj:

Great job Brad, I'm glad you got it figured out. That little pastel caramel is great. Now that you know what your male is, you should go for a super pastel caramel. :D

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Originally Posted by MarkS

Great job Brad, I'm glad you got it figured out. That little pastel caramel is great. Now that you know what your male is, you should go for a super pastel caramel. :D

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That's the plan-I think the super would be a very striking animal.

I got what seems to be the same thing on 7/13. Out of 5 eggs I got 6 babies (one set of twins) 4 out of 6 of these are very very clean pastel looking animals. I say "pastel looking" because i'm not 100% sure they're pastels, but they definitely look like it. I have pics of the parents breeding, her ovulating 2 days later, and the offspring. How do I post pics on this site if I don't already have them posted on the net?? I also came home today to an albino head sticking out of a clutch I figured was going to hatch tonight. 3 eggs- 2 albinos, 1 het albino.
~Matt Oakley