Horrible Night!!!

One of our dogs turned on sarah tonight. I was not home but she was feeding them and one of the huskies got out of the kennel and our german shepard attacked her. After about a minute of fighting the german shepard let her go and walked in her doghouse so sarah grabbed the huskie and pulled her towards the porch and the german shepard ran an attacked her she grabbed a shovel laying beside her and hit her with it and she backed off. She called me while the shepard was attacking the siberian husky screaming and hollering and I freaked out I didnt know what was going on I couldnt understand her. So I went 90 all the way home and when I got there it looked like a murder scene there was blood everywhere all over everything. Sarah was laying in the driveway with snow our husky and somehow she managed to get roxy in a kennel. Sarah was covered in blood snow was covered in blood everything was bloody. I dont know what caused her to attack she has never done anything like this she has always gotten along with all our huskies fine and she has never tried to attack me or any of my family members. I feel horrible for not being here and I hope snow completly recovers but she does look really rough right now. BUt the vet said she thinks she will make it. Roxy got her in the neck but didnt get a good enough grip to get in deep enough to do any damage but she did bite to the bone in her front legs. Sarah has cuts from her claws on her upper chest and arms but grabbed the shovel before she bite down on her. Im still very confused as to why this all happened. She is not an aggressive dog and has never made an attack to any of our other dogs. But I am thankful this could of been alot worse had sarah not had a shovel right there. Roxy is a very large and pwerful dog and im afriad she could of done alot worse to both sarah and snow. IM a FIRM believer that any animal could turn on there owners not just exotics and not just pitbulls any dog could turn. This is the last dog in the world I thought would ever attempt to harm anyone in my family. She has been a great friend over the years Im still baffled as to why this all happened!
Just please pray that snow makes a full recovery. Shes a very close friend and I love her to death and sarah loves her more then I do. She means the world to sarah. She is her favorite out of all the huskies and it would kill her if she passed away! Thanks for your prayers!
Snow and sarah
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e5...s/DSC01220.jpg
Roxy
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e5...s/DSC01762.jpg

Oh how horrible! You're in our prayers - this is all so sad!

Sorry man, that is horrible. Luckily Sarah was okay and I send wishes snow's way for a fast and healthy recovery. It is not your fault you were not there. Sounds like prior to the attack, everything was going routinely, something just got Roxy to snap.

What's next for Roxy? You have children don't you, or perhaps I am mistaken?

that sucks D let me know if I can do anything

Sounds like an affirmation of the pecking order.

Gonna have to watch them extra careful now.

Hope Sarah and your dog are ok, but you've got some serious thinking to do now.

I am so sorry to hear what happened. I would take Roxy in and have her checked. She could have health issues that she is not showing and the strain could have made her snap. I will be praying for snow. If you need an ear shoot me an im I willing to give any help I can.

gsd's are extremely over protective and territorial. an animal getting loose is enough to set the prey drive into high gear. i own two now, i've had several in my life and this is pretty much standard. i'm sorry to hear about what happened, but please don't blame the shep; she's only doing what her instincts are telling her is the right thing to do. sarrah just got in the middle, just like anyone trying to separate two fighting alpha males.

i do hope your wife and animals will be ok. i also hope that this incident doesn't create long term hard feelings. they are, after all, just babies....

That is horrible! I am so sorry you all had to go through something like this, Snow will be in my prayers, I hope she recovers soon.

My dog was just diagnosed with hypothyroidism. She is a terrier mix and is only mildly aggressive if there are treats around, etc. However, the vet explained to me that many, many times when something like what happened to Roxy occurs, it could very well be a case of hypothyroidism. GSD's, Rotties, Goldens are all predisposed apparently. I really hope everyone will be ok. You will all be in my thoughts.

my heart is thinking of u and I will pray for the little snow.. I am so sorry...poor sarah she must be so upset...:(


I am so sorry

Thanks everyone. Im not really sure what im going to do. Ive been cleaning the yard when I got back from the vet I went and sat with roxy and she laid in my lap like nothing had happened. I had to bath her because she had blood everywhere. I do have children and I do worry about that now but roxy has always been so good with our kids. But then again shes always been great with all our dogs none of them have ever fought or anything.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Denial

Thanks everyone. Im not really sure what im going to do. Ive been cleaning the yard when I got back from the vet I went and sat with roxy and she laid in my lap like nothing had happened. I had to bath her because she had blood everywhere. I do have children and I do worry about that now but roxy has always been so good with our kids. But then again shes always been great with all our dogs none of them have ever fought or anything.

---

Back in the long ago I had a Dobie. I knew her parents and one of her grandmothers. I was with this dog practically from the day she was born.

She did not like kids. But, she was MY dog so I kept her even though I had a niggling feeling that maybe I shouldn't.

She nipped my son when he was toddling about. That day she left the house forever. It wasn't a full on bite and he tumbled towards her when it happened, I was right there. She wasn't being aggressive, just her dog self.

I truly feel for you but I would, were you to ask my advice, tell you to find her a home tomorrow.

well we used to have 3 pitbulls not counting the 9 puppies that was one litter to a young young father and a young mother but anywho im suprized they never snaped, the dad that we have now is controled by my beagle you have a 80lb dog controled by a fat 7 year old beagle i dont get it oh well i hope for the best

are the dogs still intact?? if so it could have something to do with someone coming into season??? it could also be a dominance thing too?? i would not keep an aggressive dog especially if you have children it is just not worth it for your family and for the dogs sake, it would be horrible if something worse happened and one of your children get hurt. i have owned pit bulls for the last 14 years and have had a few little scraps between dogs but never have any of my dogs shown any kind of human aggression, very scary that the dog went after your wife!!! Maybe you could place her with someone who does tarining for schutzhund or tracking where she will be kept busy,, some shepherds are a lot happier when they have a job to do. i hope all turns out well and everyone heals up fast!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wilomn

Back in the long ago I had a Dobie. I knew her parents and one of her grandmothers. I was with this dog practically from the day she was born.

She did not like kids. But, she was MY dog so I kept her even though I had a niggling feeling that maybe I shouldn't.

She nipped my son when he was toddling about. That day she left the house forever. It wasn't a full on bite and he tumbled towards her when it happened, I was right there. She wasn't being aggressive, just her dog self.

I truly feel for you but I would, were you to ask my advice, tell you to find her a home tomorrow.

---

I grew up with GSD's and I saw territorial fighting if one of them got to a wandering dog, however, never any aggression towards people even during the times fights had to be broken up. The fact that you have children in the house and your wife was turned on, well I'm in agreement with Wes - as hard as it is I would be looking for a strictly controlled, no children, no other dogs environment for that shepherd. I cannot imagine your wife wants to have to care for a dog that she may no longer be able to trust and may now be afraid of.

I'm so sorry for your wife, what an awful experience to go through. I hope her beloved dog makes it through the attack and back to full health.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frankykeno

I grew up with GSD's and I saw territorial fighting if one of them got to a wandering dog, however, never any aggression towards people even during the times fights had to be broken up. The fact that you have children in the house and your wife was turned on, well I'm in agreement with Wes - as hard as it is I would be looking for a strictly controlled, no children, no other dogs environment for that shepherd. I cannot imagine your wife wants to have to care for a dog that she may no longer be able to trust and may now be afraid of.

I'm so sorry for your wife, what an awful experience to go through. I hope her beloved dog makes it through the attack and back to full health.

---

To the OP, sorry that this happened. I am glad that you wife is alright, and I hope Snow makes it.

I am in agreement with Joanna and Wes on this one. If it were me, I would find Roxy a new home, for your kids and wifes sake.

Sorry to hear this, I'm glad the wife isn't hurt. But it just sounds like female dogs establishing pecking orders. Is your 'top' most alpha female getting older?

I'm pretty sure in most pack/pride/group animal situations as the alpha animals get old enough to show signs of weakness, the next most assertive animal will usually kill the dominant animal to get status. Could that be what's happening?

I am so sorry that this has happened. Snow and your family are in my daily prayers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wilomn

Back in the long ago I had a Dobie. I knew her parents and one of her grandmothers. I was with this dog practically from the day she was born.

She did not like kids. But, she was MY dog so I kept her even though I had a niggling feeling that maybe I shouldn't.

She nipped my son when he was toddling about. That day she left the house forever. It wasn't a full on bite and he tumbled towards her when it happened, I was right there. She wasn't being aggressive, just her dog self.

I truly feel for you but I would, were you to ask my advice, tell you to find her a home tomorrow.

---

I agree with Wes.

I have a pair of dogs that I absolutely love. BUT, if I had children and one of my pups had shown unpredicted aggression towards another family member, I would be looking for a new home for that dog the next day.

No matter how much I love my dogs...they are not worth putting my child's health and well-being at risk.

Good luck with everything.

Thanks everyone for the prayers. We are going to see snow this morning. I think im going to end up having to find roxy a home. Sarah is terrified of the dog now. She started crying this morning when she saw her. Also riley was on our back porch last night when all this happened so he saw a 120 pound dog attack his mother and it really did a number on him.

It could of been a domince thing. We have never really had an alpha female thing going on. BUt it very well could of just started. We do have two male siberian huskies and both are about the same age and both think they are alphas and we always kept them separted in different kennels they never come into contact with one another. But roxy is 6 years old and snow is almost 9 years old. Snow is housed in a kennel outside and roxy was an inside outside dog. She always came outside when we would take care of the other dogs or really anytime we were outside. We just never have had anything like this happen. Snow and roxy have always been so good together. They even lay with each other in the explorer wwhen we take them for there shots. I just dont know why roxy snapped. And it was like snow didnt even put up a fight back. I feel so sorry for her. Roxy weighs in at about 120-125 and snow doesnt weigh but 60 pounds so roxy is twice as big as she is. But the way sarah told me it sounded like roxy was trying to prtect her kill or something because sarah opened the kennel and roxy ran in and grabbed snow they fought and then she said roxy let her go and went to lay down in a dog house and sarah opened the kennel grabbed snow and pulled her out and she said when she did roxy ran an jumped on her and we have two shovels at the kennel that we use to clean the kennels out with and she grabbed one and smacked roxy with it two times and she said roxy ran back into the kennel and she slammed the door shut. Its just hard to understand a dog that you have had for 6 years that has slept in your house with your children and your wife would ever turn andn charge one of them. I still havent come to terms with all that. I love that dog always have been in love with german shepards and have always had them around me growing up my grandfather and uncle trained them for police work and my grandfather had one that worked with him on the force for the sc state troopers. But I love my family more and I need to be sure they never get attacked by any dog. I feel horrible with my self because that should of never happened to sarah last night. She has always been 110 percent with me on my love for animals and anything I wanted to bring home was ok with her. And nothing like this has ever come close to happening. I guess maybe since snow was a little older roxy wanted to show everyone who was boss or something. But roxy has always been a bigger dog then my siberian huskys. Most of them weigh around 60 pounds I have one male that weighs 80 but none are nowhere near as big as roxy is

I've kept wolf hybrids for years. As they age the dynamics change and sometimes for reasons I was not privy to.

THEY know though and are wired to respond to certain stimuli that we just don't pick up.

I SERIOUSLY doubt that there is anyone at fault here. I really think it was a pecking order check or confirmation or test.

Don't beat yourself up over it, that won't change anything. Love your dogs and family and do what's right for your situation.

As far as your son goes, explain to him, or this is what I would do, that dogs speak a language that we don't always understand and something went on between those two that your wife missed. It's not that they had bad feelings for eachother or no longer loved his mom, they just had to do dog stuff that is not always understandable to us.

Be the alpha yourself, not being sarcastic, and do what you have to for your pack.

Absolutely solid advice, Wes. Whatever triggered Roxy the fact is she went for your wife in a way that's not safe or acceptable behaviour. Had there not been a shovel nearby it could have been much worse. Obviously both your wife and child are traumatized by this attack by a beloved pet and will need to understand what went on. I think Wes' explanation is a perfect one and one that any child could understand.

I'm sorry to be so blunt but if a very safe and permanent home cannot be found for Roxy with a highly experienced GSD handler, then the only option I would consider if I was facing this in my own home is to put her down. Better that she leaves this earth with love around her then she does this again, hurts someone else and is put down by the authorities. I know that's a harsh thing to face and many on this site will condemn me for this stance but I am a firm believer in not passing off a potentially dangerous animal to another person unless that person can bear the weight of that responsibility for the lifetime of the animal involved.

I am so sorry that your family is going through all this right now - what a painful process you are all going through. I also agree that Roxy needs to be re-homed or put down.

Didn't you recently move to where you are now (like very recently)? Is it possible that the stress of moving may have set Roxy off?

That is very possible. We have only been here for about 5-6 days

When I rescued my pit "Harry" he was staying with a dog trainer who ran a rescue. He told me when I take him home make sure EVERYONE in the house corrects(punishes) him when he does ANYTHING wrong and establishes dominance over him the sooner the better. Other wise he may look at them as equal or below him in the pecking order. Equal isnt good enough because eventually he may feel he has grown past you. I was also taught not to play any kind of competitive games with him like tug of war. He said you want him to look at you like a God where competition doesnt even exist. Dogs in packs compete with each other since they are pups, playing and wrestling with oneanother and in HIS mind winning and claiming dominance. Even the strongest pack leaders(dogs or wolves) eventually get old and the next in line will compete and take over. I was told you dont want you dog to test his position, this is a natural instinct for a very alpha dog. When you play competitive games the dog may think he is winning because he is seeing that he is obviously faster and more agile than you, Not good he said

I was the only one who followed through and now he listens to me like a soldier and kinda listens to everyone else. Lucky for me he has never been aggressive to people and very much understands the difference between people and other dogs, who he does try to dominate.

Some dogs do not give people much clout and can try to correct them(like they do other dogs) which means snapping, biting or barking, thats just what they do in a pack to each other to show who is in charge.

Roxy has shown that he does not reguard humans as superior and that your wife is below him in the pecking order. That is very dangerous because in a very high emotional state(like he was the other night) he is capable of attacking and biting to show his dominance to the others of the pack whom she also feels are below her.

The fact that they are kept apart also can cause serious dominance issues because they are not treated equally(in their eyes). Since one is allowed in the house and the others arent that sends a signal that one is superior to the others since he is allowed where people are and the others arent. This may also make him feel he is an equal or above humans since he goes in the house where people do unlike the others.

He very easily could have misinterpreted something that Snow did and felt he needed to correct her. It could have been that Snow was fed first which doesnt fly well to an alpha male, or she may have been to aggressive towards your wife. Alpha's always get first pick of the kill and set the rules for what behavior is allowed in the pack. Anyone who owns a big dog needs to show them exactly where they stand in the pecking order or they will assume a role depending on their personality.

Feeding time is when the pecking order becomes very significant.

I agree with Wes that Roxy needs to go since she has shown she feels she is dominant over your wife and most likely your children as well. You never know what could trigger the dog to feel the need to correct the pack again.

I hope your wife, family and snow recover without any long term physical or emotional damage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Denial

Thanks everyone for the prayers. We are going to see snow this morning. I think im going to end up having to find roxy a home. Sarah is terrified of the dog now. She started crying this morning when she saw her. Also riley was on our back porch last night when all this happened so he saw a 120 pound dog attack his mother and it really did a number on him.

It could of been a domince thing. We have never really had an alpha female thing going on. BUt it very well could of just started. We do have two male siberian huskies and both are about the same age and both think they are alphas and we always kept them separted in different kennels they never come into contact with one another. But roxy is 6 years old and snow is almost 9 years old. Snow is housed in a kennel outside and roxy was an inside outside dog. She always came outside when we would take care of the other dogs or really anytime we were outside. We just never have had anything like this happen. Snow and roxy have always been so good together. They even lay with each other in the explorer wwhen we take them for there shots. I just dont know why roxy snapped. And it was like snow didnt even put up a fight back. I feel so sorry for her. Roxy weighs in at about 120-125 and snow doesnt weigh but 60 pounds so roxy is twice as big as she is. But the way sarah told me it sounded like roxy was trying to prtect her kill or something because sarah opened the kennel and roxy ran in and grabbed snow they fought and then she said roxy let her go and went to lay down in a dog house and sarah opened the kennel grabbed snow and pulled her out and she said when she did roxy ran an jumped on her and we have two shovels at the kennel that we use to clean the kennels out with and she grabbed one and smacked roxy with it two times and she said roxy ran back into the kennel and she slammed the door shut. Its just hard to understand a dog that you have had for 6 years that has slept in your house with your children and your wife would ever turn andn charge one of them. I still havent come to terms with all that. I love that dog always have been in love with german shepards and have always had them around me growing up my grandfather and uncle trained them for police work and my grandfather had one that worked with him on the force for the sc state troopers. But I love my family more and I need to be sure they never get attacked by any dog. I feel horrible with my self because that should of never happened to sarah last night. She has always been 110 percent with me on my love for animals and anything I wanted to bring home was ok with her. And nothing like this has ever come close to happening. I guess maybe since snow was a little older roxy wanted to show everyone who was boss or something. But roxy has always been a bigger dog then my siberian huskys. Most of them weigh around 60 pounds I have one male that weighs 80 but none are nowhere near as big as roxy is

---

Sounds to me like you are doing the responsible, although hard, thing and putting your family first. Good luck finding Roxy a good home.

A friend of mine owns two German Shepards (one male, one female). He got a male german shepard puppy for Christmas a couple of years ago. They came home one night to find that the older female had literally torn the puppy apart. That's some scary stuff. They ended up keeping the female, but they won't let it out with their other dogs anymore.

I want to say I am sorry this happened!

I personally could not keep any animal which had attacked with my other dogs (my dogs' ability to get along is extremely important to me. I generally will not keep a dog that cannot be trusted unsupervised 100% with any other dog I have). I definitely would consider the potential for harm to the children, too. Even if the dog isn't going after the children or any other person, the dog could hurt someone while fighting with another dog, as you experienced.

Rehoming such a dog of ANY breed, but especially a German Shepherd or other large breed dog is very VERY difficult, and no reputable rescue will adopt out a dog that has bitten someone. You have some tough choices... you and your pups are in my thoughts- I know how hard it is!

Very sad news, but sometimes things like that happen, even puppy tame dogs can sometimes (and for unknown reasons) turn on their keepers:
My uncle once owned an Doberman for 7 years, always a gentle and obedient dog, but one day this dog turned on my aunt and bit her in the throat, when she was changing his water, she was not harmed too bad, but the dog had to go.
Another incident, I eyewitnessed was when a friend of my father, an avid hunter, was attacked by his German Drahthaar for no obvious reason, the dog started to attack hiw owner during a hicking trip we made and just let go after he good some real hard punches with hicking sticks. Dominance might have been a problem or the ways the owner tried to make the dog "game", but the sight was terrifying, I was 12 back then.
And to come to an end, my last story. An other uncle of mine once owned an GSD, a very sweet dog, who allowed me to steal food from his bowl, did not mind me try to ride him and did almost everything I told him (I have been 8 or 9 back then), this angle of a dog one day attacked my uncle who lost his right thumb because of this.
So I hope snow will recover fast and luckily there are no worse human casaulties, except the mental thing.
All the best.

I have a white GSD and i love him to death. But if he ever attacked one of my family members he would be fertilizer in my garden. If i were you i would take the dog to the pound and start over with a new one. If the dog hurts someone again it will be your fault for not taking action when you had the opportunity.

I am really sorry to hear about this whole situation.

Any dog at any time can easily turn on each other or their handler unfortunately. It can be due to the pack order, redirected aggression (which sounds like why she went after your wife; easiest way to explain it is they go into a 'zone' and don't necessarily realize who they are attacking once in it), flooding, alphas etc... I am just speaking from personal experience and dog training.

If you are attempting to rehome or not, I would absolutely recommend keeping leashes on your girls at ALL times for atleast 6 weeks. Also keep them seperated if only one of you are home. It takes canines about 1 1/2 months to straighten out their issues with eachother and settle the pack again (usually).

I am sorry this has happened (and sorry I didn't see this thread sooner). I had 4 dogs before my house burned down. The oldest dog who is in my gallery and my favorite was the alpha after me. My wife made the mistakes of getting me to handle him whenever he gave a problem. He always listened to me. By her not showing dominance over him (and showing fear around him)made him feel like he was above her. He passed from a heart attack after I got him out of the house the day of the fire. The other three lived but were constantly fighting in what I beleive was to try to establish dominance. My dog that passed away ALWAYS kept the others in check. Without him and the stress of all that had happened they all lost their position in the pack. When I first came home they were even growling at me and jumping up on there kennels barking at me. I had to slowly move my way back up to the leader of the pack. I didn't actually go near any of them for a week (I couldn't). I stayed outside of their kennels talking to them (while they were barking and growling at me) slowly establishing my dominance again. I established it over time but they never established where they each stood in the pack after me. The nicest one the rottie and probably the last in the social oreder got adopted back to the breeder. The other two had to be put down after much thought. They were ABSOLUTELY mean to other dogs and people (they were not like this before the house fire). No way of any chance to adopt them out. One of the reasons they were put down was because of my youngest son. I was pretty sure I could keep him safe from the dogs (and my wife for that matter, they eventually became to much for her. They would let her go near them and love her but wouldn't listen to her). The fact that I was pretty sure was the determining factor. I needed to be 100% sure. My family means the world to me and protecting them is my job. I could never live with myself if something happened to my son or wife because of me. And it would have been my fault because I had final say in the outcome.
Anyways, as a friend you and your family are always in my prayers but when things like this happen I will most certainly take time out to say a special one for you. I hope snow pulls through with a remarkable recovery and that your family is doing okay after all of this.