Sad News

Speaks for itself. Very sad and unfortunate for all.


http://www.clickorlando.com/news/19914383/detail.html

Very sad indeed. Hope it doesn't become food for HR669

Yep there is the proverbial straw I fear.

Its sad they threw the wild population deal in there, and how they're able to survive down there.

This is indeed a sad case. But this has nothing to do with the wild populations of Pythons. Which are indeed a case of irresponsible keepers but are there not populations due to damage to stores from hurricanes and what-not?

This is a case of negligence and stupidity.

My heart goes out to they're family.

Where were the parents?

As a parent myself, my heart goes out to the family. My question is, based on the article, it was 10am and the parent was just waking up??? The 2 yr old girl was awake and able to move around the house with no supervision?

As a responsible snake owner, it really pisses me off that that snake was set up to fail by being in an enclosure that was NOT escape proof.

Its stuff like this that is going to ruin it for all of us.

Unless one of you was there then there is NO actual knowledge of how the snake was kept, what it was kept in, the condition of the parents (sober or what) or if waking up at 10 was the norm.

Maybe he worked nights. Maybe he left the cage open. Maybe someone else left the cage open. Maybe it was a poorly built cage. Maybe the kid opened it.

Jumping to conclusions is very easy. Jumping to conclusions is also a good way to be wrong.

I'm sad the kid died, that's always tough.

Of course, for a twelve foot burm, which we have no confirmation of, to try to eat a 2 year old, well, that's a hungry snake which does go right down the road to improper care BUT, having kept a few burms, some are just hungry all the time at that size.

It sucks but facts are lacking. I'd sure like to know how the snake got out.

How incredibly tragic :(

The things that could be said about this are endless but, from a hobbyist view point, we see this right after the article in the PalmBeachPost (see recent "Burm tests in SC" thread from Dreese88. From the article:

"Gibbons said a human is "just another prey item" to a python — especially a small human. Pythons are constrictor snakes and have been known to eat people in their native areas of Southeast Asia, he added."

Such bad publicity/harm to our hobby! But, of course, the real loss is to the family and the toddler!!

That is sad.. Poor family.

A good reminder to us to ensure all cages are secure though! And if you have kids, to be responsible and have locks on all cages!

Yeah- I have a kid, and I won't be owning any giant snakes. It's just not worth the risk IMO.

Sad for all. Kind of like when a dog bite happens, and the entire breed gets blamed. It's tragic, sad, and unfair- to everyone.

I really hate to bring this up, but I really hope the authorities do an autopsy on the child. It wouldn't be the first time a child died of abuse or neglect and the guilty parents tried to frame it on one of their pets.

In any case it's very very sad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MarkS

I really hate to bring this up, but I really hope the authorities do an autopsy on the child. It wouldn't be the first time a child died of abuse or neglect and the guilty parents tried to frame it on one of their pets.

In any case it's very very sad.

---

DOH!!!

I didn't even consider that possibility. Good catch.

Another reason not to jump to conclusions.

I guess like my pit bull's, we must blame the deed, not the breed.

If a pet snake kills someone, the blame rests with the keeper.. unless extraordinary events (robbery, hurricane, ????) were ultimately the cause of a dangerous snake being allowed unsupervised around a vulnerable person. This does not seem to be the case.

Poor kid, poor parents :(

Still, this makes the news when dog attacks/deaths do not?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MarkS

I really hate to bring this up, but I really hope the authorities do an autopsy on the child. It wouldn't be the first time a child died of abuse or neglect and the guilty parents tried to frame it on one of their pets.

In any case it's very very sad.

---

that was actually my first thought when reading the article.

Here's an interesting statistic (if true) from another reporting source.

"The Humane Society of the United States said including Wednesday's death, at least 12 people have been killed in the U.S. by pet pythons since 1980, including five children."

100 % hands down without a doubt is the owners fault. regardless of how the snake got out...its the owners fault. owning these animals we all have to keep in mind...they are exotic wild animals.

but the point about it possibly being the parents framing the snake, very very good point.

im sorry for the parents if it was the snake that killed the baby..i really am. its very very sad. but them being her parents it is their responsibility to watch and care for her. as well as protect her.

oh god i hope this doesnt turn out bad for us. if it does then dogs should be banned as well. even cats. agh! owner negligence simply pisses me off...

I'm very sad for the family. The news here just said that the python "broke out of the glass aquarium", but... it's the HLN news, so we really don't know what sort of cage, and whether it was left unlatched, or if it was inadequate for the size python.

If anyone tried to use this as a "We should ban all pythons because a python killed the family toddler", then they should be asked when they will support a ban of all dogs, since WAY more dogs have killed family children than pythons. With a total of 12 people killed by pythons in the past 29 years(assuming there is 12 people), I'm certain that dogs have killed close to 12 people in ONE year.

Of COURSE this will be used against the herp hobby, I almost find it suspicious that it happens right when the AR folks need a bad story.

12 people in 30 years is minimal.

I say we ban cigarettes or how about cars! WAY more deadly than dogs, cats, or pythons!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Qetu

100 % hands down without a doubt is the owners fault. regardless of how the snake got out...its the owners fault. owning these animals we all have to keep in mind...they are exotic wild animals.

---

Can you fill us in with all the details the police, family and reporters have given you that we didn't get in the news article?

It would really help us so we could judge for ourselves if it really was the owners fault.

was the burmese python housed in the same room as the child if it wasnt how did it get in the room

If not the owners fault, then whose? The snakes? Im sure he was being devious and wanted to show his lack of respect for authority.

The man didnt even have a permit. Or so we've heard. If thats the case he shouldnt have had the snake in the first place. Cant afford the $100 a year (then cant afford the snakes upkeep IMO) or just dont want anyone to know he has it? Didnt want people to know he didnt have the right cage or no-how for caring for it? Its a little suspect to me.

Poor child, poor mother. I cant even begin to know what it must feel like to lose your child, a toddler at that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MarkS

I really hate to bring this up, but I really hope the authorities do an autopsy on the child. It wouldn't be the first time a child died of abuse or neglect and the guilty parents tried to frame it on one of their pets.

In any case it's very very sad.

---

Especially in the one article i read the caller said "The stupid Snake got out".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Whodinidunit

Especially in the one article i read the caller said "The stupid Snake got out".

---

OH, the snaaake is stupid. Thanks for clearing that up, caller.

A very sad and tragic event :tears:

check out the video links on the page with that story.
at the end of the 7 min. news clip it tells how pythons can get up to
30 ft. and blah blah ( all while showing a picture of a ball python) :rolleyes:

also at one point it was being called a boa

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dusty

check out the video links on the page with that story.
at the end of the 7 min. news clip it tells how pythons can get up to
30 ft. and blah blah ( all while showing a picture of a ball python) :rolleyes:

also at one point it was being called a boa

---

Same tactics as anti-gun activists. Any bad press that can be twisted is good for them. I fell sad about the baby but things happen. We can not keep people 100% safe at all times, and banning anything and everything under the sun we feel is deadly is no way to go about it. In life their are risks, we minimize them by being educated in what we choose to do. Sadly their are stupid people out there, and their are accadents that can and do happen to even the most educated of us. Welcome to life, get a helmet.

sadly,,thats my local station.....

From reading the news article, my question is.....if the incident happened around 10 a.m. where was her mother? sleeping?

Isnt that just great a baby lost its life because of them idiots :mad::mad:.So in all the baby died and the snake was killed because the owners were law breaking no common sense idiots :mad::mad:

She died because of an irresponsible parent/caregiver, like so many children do, this one just happened to involve an exotic animal

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joepythons

Isnt that just great a baby lost its life because of them idiots :mad::mad:.So in all the baby died and the snake was killed because the owners were law breaking no common sense idiots :mad::mad:

---

The Python isn't dead.

"Authorities removed the snake from the home Wednesday afternoon. Once outside the small, tan home, bordered by cow pastures, the snake was placed in a bag then inside a dog crate. The snake was still alive.

Darnell did not have a permit for the snake, which would be a second-degree misdemeanor, said Joy Hill, a spokeswoman with the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission. He has not been charged, but Caruthers said investigators were looking into whether there was child neglect or if any other laws were broken.

Hill said the snake will be placed with someone who has a permit, pending an investigation into the girl's death."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...kfs5gD995TLSO0

Sounds like the authorities are being pretty careful in their handling of this.

What a very sad occurrence. I think Wes made a very good point earlier in this thread in that we should keep the speculation to a minimum if possible. There's simply no knowing until investigative information is properly released (and then god hope it's actually reported correctly :rolleyes:) how that snake and that poor child ended up together unsupervised like that.

As both a parent and an owner of a larger snake (9 ft female boa) all I can do is what we've always done here at home. We thought a long while about the responsibilities of bringing Tequila into our home with our own younger child. We made rules for her that are never broken under any circumstance. We make sure she was caged appropriately and under lock and key. Only Mike and I hold the keys to the padlock on her enclosure. Tequila isn't even considered a giant but she is 9 feet of very, very powerful snake and we'd be both stupid parents and stupid snakekeepers to ignore or minimize that fact.

While my heart breaks for these parents I have serious questions in my mind about how and why that baby and that snake were in close and unsupervised contact at 10 a.m.

I saw the video of them measuring that snake. It measured out at 8 foot 5 inches. Let's be generous and say 9 feet. Not that big for a burm. It was also on the thin side. I'd guess between 12 and 18 lbs. I've got an 8 foot boa that weighs 15 lbs, as of Monday, and is almost the same thickness as that burm. Let's be generous again and say 20 lbs.

Now, a 9 foot 20lb burm is NOT going to try to eat an average 2 year old human. Even if it was starving, that is simply too large a prey item to swallow unless that child was abnormally small.

I smell a big stinking heap of crap in their story.

But, I could be wrong. For the sake of the child, I hope I am. I would much rather think that an innocent slither just out being itself killed this child looking for a meal than the only other possibility; that the child was already dead, how I don't even want to know, and the snake is being blamed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wilomn

I saw the video of them measuring that snake. It measured out at 8 foot 5 inches. Let's be generous and say 9 feet. Not that big for a burm. It was also on the thin side. I'd guess between 12 and 18 lbs. I've got an 8 foot boa that weighs 15 lbs, as of Monday, and is almost the same thickness as that burm. Let's be generous again and say 20 lbs.

Now, a 9 foot 20lb burm is NOT going to try to eat an average 2 year old human. Even if it was starving, that is simply too large a prey item to swallow unless that child was abnormally small.

I smell a big stinking heap of crap in their story.

But, I could be wrong. For the sake of the child, I hope I am. I would much rather think that an innocent slither just out being itself killed this child looking for a meal than the only other possibility; that the child was already dead, how I don't even want to know, and the snake is being blamed.

---

Did anyone besides the father/mother see the snake on the child? Such as EMTS or police?

My local news did a piece on this, and went to a local reptile store. It actually didn't seem too bad. The pet store folks were pretty clear that owners were normally responsible, and that you were supposed to have a permit, and have locks on the cage, etc.

HOPEfully, it won't get too huge. Maybe the overwhelming focus on celebrity deaths will overshadow it.

Just great. Thats all I will say.

Very sad...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jerhart

Where were the parents?

---

Exactly!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Buttons

Can you fill us in with all the details the police, family and reporters have given you that we didn't get in the news article?

It would really help us so we could judge for ourselves if it really was the owners fault.

---

It does not matter if some one broke in and let the snake out! It is the parents fault for not taking every necessary step possible.

Mike

it must be nice to live in your world where everything seems to be completely black and white.

Actually that story just came on the news here a few minutes ago. I cannot believe that the snake escaped more than once, and the "responsible owner" just put it back in making no adjustments the escape-proof-ability of the cage :( it just sickens me that this could happen and make all of us look bad. The owner was obiously not responsible: No liscence where it is required to have one, did not fix the cage so that the burmeese could not escape, and STABBING the animal even though it was most likely just a feeding response. Because the kid was 2 years old, they were very small...small enough to mabey resemble food or the large snake?

I hope this doesnt catch the attention of TOO many or it could effect us in a very bad way :( not that we aren't already looked down apon and frowned on

That's a horrible and sad story, and not to jump to any conclusions or make accusations, the story doesn't seem to add up. The article said that there were multiple bite marks on the toddler. I don't know if that means a single bite with multiple teeth marks, but I took it to mean that there were several separate bites. Like Wes said, a burm that small would not likely find it's way to the babies room, mistake a toddler for food, then strike at it several times, clamping down each time, then constrict the toddler. I can't picture that scenario taking place. Especially since the dad said the snake has escaped multiple times in the past. Has anyone here ever had a snake escape, and not gotten to the bottom of the escape route and remedied the problem?

Then, the dad says he noticed the snake was gone, then went to check on his daughter, then stabbed the snake. These people are obviously not the brightest, but every owner of an 8 foot burm should know that it can be easily and quickly unwrapped in a situation like that, likely much faster than it would take to make the decision to go look for a weapon. I hope the police don't treat this as an open and shut case and just assume that this is a likely scenario if an 8 foot python gets out of it's aquarium. It just doesn't make sense.

One report I read did say an autopsy would be done on the child.

There is no good ending to this but I do hope...well, hell, I don't hope anything right now. The kid is dead and for who knows what reason.

Local news story here is the same as the other ones I've read. It's been pretty unbiased but omg, the comments that people are leaving now are ridiculous. I replied to their ignorance with statistics regarding dog related deaths(239 1979-1998), automobile deaths( 2000/yr) and neglect/maltreatment deaths (1760 in 2007). 12 people/5 kids in close to 30 years is not that big of a deal IMHO.

It simply blows me away that any reasonably sane, thinking adult would think it no big deal that a large snake was repeatedly escaping in their home, let alone a home with a very young child in it. That's the same stupid mindset of people that do have dog attacks happen and then it comes out that their dog has been showing highly aggressive attitudes for years but "we never thought he'd actually bite a child". My husand oftens says it and it's so true. People ought to have at least two more working brain cells than the animals they choose to keep!

The sad part is a lot of people are going to use this against us. Lawmakers will likely be quoting this case. Most will not acknowledge that isn't about big snakes at all. It may well be about neglectful parents, it certainly is about a neglectful and plain stupid snake owner. Unfortunately that's not likely to be the focus since the image of a big snake wrapped around a tiny toddler is just too awful to see past for most people. :(

I know for myself if this is brought up to me by non-snake owners I will be using it to help educate on proper snakekeeping. Education is the key to help quell panic and mindless fear.

In my opinion the only way it woudl NOT be the owner's fault would be if someone broke into the home, broke the snake out of it's locked enclosure, but left it there without taking it. Not a real likely schenario.

In Florida, the snake is supposed to be in a LOCKED enclosure, and most 2 year olds can't undo locks very well, especially if the key is elsewhere as it should be. Was it locked up? Doubtful. Multiple escapes?

I'm sorry, but if I saw a 8 ft snake wrapped around a toddler, I might stab it too. If I was not an experianced keeper, I might panic. Knowing what I do about snakes and handling snakes, I would probably just unwrap it, or grab alcohol to get it off.. but if those did not work for some reason, yes.. you bet I'd stab it. I'd just do a better job than he did.

Who knows? He might have even TAKEN the snake out and put it on/near his kid, thinking it would be cute for them to play together..people have done that sort of thing in the past. Whatever happened in that home, it sadly led to the death of an innocent child, and it will be bad press for us.

If a snake was harming my baby, never mind wrapped around him killing him, I would kill it, stab it, cut its head off. That Mama instinct is strong- and no snake, dog, or any other creature on this earth has my consideration if it's hurting/killing my child... THAT said... since I DO love animals and my child, I take utmost care that this will not ever be an issue. My child and my snakes are never allowed to make contact. Right now he cannot walk (he's three months old) so I don't worry too much, but we never hold the snakes except when he is napping or in bed for the night. We wash up carefully after we touch them, and we don't let them or their supplies contact anything he might touch. It's called being responsible! Once he can wander around, I plan to get one of those things so he can't open the door to the snake room, plus all the snakes are up where he can't reach them. In addition to that, we do not have any snakes larger than a four foot ball python. When our BRB and our JCP (both small babies) get large enough they could in any way EVER harm a child, they will absolutely be securely contained where he cannot reach them. Not to mention I would never have my child unsupervised... he co-sleeps in my room with me.

A few people on other forums who know I have snakes have asked how I could have these horrible creatures near my baby. People asked me this BEFORE this case happened! I get asked all the time, "How do you keep the snakes away from the baby/the dog?" Aside from my standard answers of, "I'm not an idiot" and "snakes live in tanks- they don't roam the house" I also explain that I do not keep large, powerful snakes.

People are soooo ignorant and uneducated, and their fear of snakes is so unfounded and bizarre. We have a long road ahead of us.

Whatever actually occurred, it is certainly a tragic death and of course this incident will be used as an example by the proponents of 669.

so the local news in titusville (just outside of orlando) said that he was keeping the snake in an aquairum and it kept getting out so he put it into a snake bag and then but it back into the aquairum.

so everyone at work knows im into snakes and ive beening answering questions all morning. not one of them knows of the ROC laws and most are biologist.

its sad that this happened and is something we really don't need right now!