Future owner with questions

Hello,

I am looking to get my first BP in a few months and had some questions. I have learned the basics (humidity, warm/cool side, identical hides, etc), but there are a few things I don't know. Now, I was thinking about getting my snake from the show here in havre de grace, md.. but I'm a little worried about either being ripped off, or not knowing the breeder. Is there any way to know which breeders will attend certain shows?

I was also wondering if there seems to be a temperment difference between males and females. Right now, since I'm still living with my mother, she first didn't want me to have a bp at all, then agreed on a male because they don't get as large. And on here, I have seen some MASSIVE females. However, do they get that big naturally? Or is it because of frequent feeding? I just really wish I'd be able to keep my options open with gender and be able to tell my mom that females don't really get that much bigger.

I have also seen many opinions on tank size. After what I've read, I'm thinking about going with a 20gal. Is that really large enough for a full grown BP? I was also wondering if 1 UTH would be enough? One person here told me 2 would be better for the warm and cool side since my house is a little cooler for my chinchillas, but being a 20 gal, would it really be necessary? Not that I don't trust who told me (they were a huge help), just want multiple opinions.

Thank you. :) I'll ask more questions as I think of them, lol.

I have to use two UTHs for my 20g because we don't have central air in my house. They are both hooked up the same tstat however, with the dimmer backup for the cool side turned down lower to get a temp gradient.

I was actually thinking of getting a chin, but I decided having a pet that needs cooler air and one that needs warmer air isn't a good idea for energy conservation.

Thanks :) I was thinking about getting a duel thermostat, but they're $210 or something like that. I'm guessing there are no more that are cheaper?

Another question. I was just off reading a retained shed thread, and was wondering, how often do they shed?

I don't have a double tstat. Most will have more than one plug to control multiple devices. I use the Repti temp 500r, which has two plugs and costs about $30.

Depends on the snake. Most shed every 4-6 weeks. But like I said it depends per snake and their growth rate.

Oh ok, thanks! :) You were saying about backing it up with a dimmer, how would that be done?

You can buy a light dimmer for $10 at the home depot or lowes. You just plug the dimmer into the t-stat and one of the heat pads (cool side) into the dimmer. Tada! You can now dim down the cool side temp :)

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Originally Posted by TheBallPython

Hello,

I am looking to get my first BP in a few months and had some questions. I have learned the basics (humidity, warm/cool side, identical hides, etc), but there are a few things I don't know. Now, I was thinking about getting my snake from the show here in havre de grace, md.. but I'm a little worried about either being ripped off, or not knowing the breeder. Is there any way to know which breeders will attend certain shows?

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There should be a website set up for the show, and they typically list the breeders expected to attend. From there, I would go on this website to research them: http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...splay.php?f=13
The other members here alerted me to that site, and it's been a fabulous resource! :gj: I've only attended one show so far, where I saw some decent (but not amazing) deals... picked up a hatchling male pastel for $125, who is both gorgeous and SUPER sweet. But it's possible I just got lucky, so definitely do your research first.

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I was also wondering if there seems to be a temperment difference between males and females. Right now, since I'm still living with my mother, she first didn't want me to have a bp at all, then agreed on a male because they don't get as large. And on here, I have seen some MASSIVE females. However, do they get that big naturally? Or is it because of frequent feeding? I just really wish I'd be able to keep my options open with gender and be able to tell my mom that females don't really get that much bigger.

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Females are typically bigger at full size, but I can't say if that's genetic or environmental. They have to be around 1500g or more to breed, whereas males can breed much smaller (and younger)... so that could have something to do with it, although I believe it's also somewhat natural.

FYI, I have 2 females (one 1770g adult, one 350g yearling) and my baby male... can only speak from experience with these snakes, but I've found the boy to be calmer and more "affectionate." I've had the younger female since she was a baby, and she still hisses at me sometimes - never strikes or bites, but you can tell she has mixed feelings about handling. Toby, on the other hand, can't seem to get enough cuddle time! :) They all have unique personalities, though, so there are no guarantees based on gender.

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I have also seen many opinions on tank size. After what I've read, I'm thinking about going with a 20gal. Is that really large enough for a full grown BP? I was also wondering if 1 UTH would be enough? One person here told me 2 would be better for the warm and cool side since my house is a little cooler for my chinchillas, but being a 20 gal, would it really be necessary?

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Generally a 10-15gal is recommended for hatchlings/yearlings, and a 20gal is sufficient for the rest of their life... some will go as big as 40, but it's not really necessary for a BP. Keep in mind, they often reside in termite mounds in the wild, so large open spaces can be intimidating. Go for a long/narrow tank, rather than a tall one, and fill it with stuff (branches, fake plants, etc) if there's empty space. As for the UTH, I think one is fine since they need one side to be warmer. If the ambient temp is still too cold, which is a problem I have with the glass tanks, you can add an overhead light - I use a ceramic. Good luck and have fun!! You know they are addictive, right?? :D:D

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

You can buy a light dimmer for $10 at the home depot or lowes. You just plug the dimmer into the t-stat and one of the heat pads (cool side) into the dimmer. Tada! You can now dim down the cool side temp :)

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In order to set a sufficient temp in case the tstat fails, you first plug the heat pads into their respective dimmers. Set them at a point where the hot side temp is about 95 and the cool about 85 (This may take a while.). Then, you can hook it up like Kaorte said.

This way, if the tstat fails in the open position, your dimmers will regulate the temps only up to 95 and 85 until you notice.

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Originally Posted by TheBallPython

Hello,

I am looking to get my first BP in a few months and had some questions. I have learned the basics (humidity, warm/cool side, identical hides, etc), but there are a few things I don't know. Now, I was thinking about getting my snake from the show here in havre de grace, md.. but I'm a little worried about either being ripped off, or not knowing the breeder. Is there any way to know which breeders will attend certain shows?

I was also wondering if there seems to be a temperment difference between males and females. Right now, since I'm still living with my mother, she first didn't want me to have a bp at all, then agreed on a male because they don't get as large. And on here, I have seen some MASSIVE females. However, do they get that big naturally? Or is it because of frequent feeding? I just really wish I'd be able to keep my options open with gender and be able to tell my mom that females don't really get that much bigger.

I have also seen many opinions on tank size. After what I've read, I'm thinking about going with a 20gal. Is that really large enough for a full grown BP? I was also wondering if 1 UTH would be enough? One person here told me 2 would be better for the warm and cool side since my house is a little cooler for my chinchillas, but being a 20 gal, would it really be necessary? Not that I don't trust who told me (they were a huge help), just want multiple opinions.

Thank you. :) I'll ask more questions as I think of them, lol.

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Being pretty new to the hobby myself there is a couple of things that i wish i never did and recomend not doing to someone else.

1. I have been to harve de grace personally and i took a coulple of friends there myself and I would say they are all pretty good breeders and produce good quality. I can recomend rick krimurae(how every you spell it) he occupies the far left back corner when you walk in the door... nice animals and you can talk to him on pricing. But harve dre grace is a small show and its pretty much always the same people there.

2.first i wouldnt buy a tank 10 easyer toi meet the reqirements in a tub cost is 90 better. all you would need is a drill or soder iron(recomended) from radio shack and you can make it great for you bp... (cost 20 tub and soder)

3.In my oppinion now that i have three the only true difference is length neither is really that mach bigger asto where the can harm you. it seems thats the worry with size... as far a bps what makes them seem bigger is girth that has to do with what you feed. So mom should have any worries with what you bring home. If you get a normal I'd say get a female if you do desided to expand a male would almost be usless in future breeding.

GOOD LUCK and dont forget to show us what you got!!!

We have a 2200 gram male... lol it really depends! He's eight years old...

Wow, thanks for all the info everyone! :)

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Originally Posted by Lolo76

Generally a 10-15gal is recommended for hatchlings/yearlings, and a 20gal is sufficient for the rest of their life... some will go as big as 40, but it's not really necessary for a BP. Keep in mind, they often reside in termite mounds in the wild, so large open spaces can be intimidating. Go for a long/narrow tank, rather than a tall one, and fill it with stuff (branches, fake plants, etc) if there's empty space. As for the UTH, I think one is fine since they need one side to be warmer. If the ambient temp is still too cold, which is a problem I have with the glass tanks, you can add an overhead light - I use a ceramic. Good luck and have fun!! You know they are addictive, right?? :D:D

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Thanks :) I think I'm going to just start with a 20 to save the time/money on upgrading. Would a juvenile be ok in a 20 if it's filled? I also heard that overhead lights could zap humidity, how do you keep humidity levels up in a glass enclosure? And I've seen on this site how addictive they are, how long before one do you think I'll have another? :oops: lol.

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Originally Posted by mrshawt

In order to set a sufficient temp in case the tstat fails, you first plug the heat pads into their respective dimmers. Set them at a point where the hot side temp is about 95 and the cool about 85 (This may take a while.). Then, you can hook it up like Kaorte said.

This way, if the tstat fails in the open position, your dimmers will regulate the temps only up to 95 and 85 until you notice.

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Thanks. I'm still not sure though exactly how it'd be hooked up. If the heating pads are plugged into a thermastat, how would you hook up the dimmer? Do heating pads have more than one hookup?

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Originally Posted by aff19802

Being pretty new to the hobby myself there is a couple of things that i wish i never did and recomend not doing to someone else.

1. I have been to harve de grace personally and i took a coulple of friends there myself and I would say they are all pretty good breeders and produce good quality. I can recomend rick krimurae(how every you spell it) he occupies the far left back corner when you walk in the door... nice animals and you can talk to him on pricing. But harve dre grace is a small show and its pretty much always the same people there.

2.first i wouldnt buy a tank 10 easyer toi meet the reqirements in a tub cost is 90 better. all you would need is a drill or soder iron(recomended) from radio shack and you can make it great for you bp... (cost 20 tub and soder)

3.In my oppinion now that i have three the only true difference is length neither is really that mach bigger asto where the can harm you. it seems thats the worry with size... as far a bps what makes them seem bigger is girth that has to do with what you feed. So mom should have any worries with what you bring home. If you get a normal I'd say get a female if you do desided to expand a male would almost be usless in future breeding.

GOOD LUCK and dont forget to show us what you got!!!

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Thanks for the info on the show! It sounds like I may find what I'm looking for there. Would they sell supplies I would need there too?

It'll still be a few months from now until I get him with a vacation coming up and my mother still "thinking about it". She's totally on board, she just has to say things like this because she's a mom. :giggle: You would never guess I'm 20 yrs old.. god I need to graduate college, lol. Parent's house, parent's rules. :rolleyes: But I will DEFINITELY be sharing when I do get him! :gj:

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Originally Posted by TheBallPython

Thanks :) I think I'm going to just start with a 20 to save the time/money on upgrading. Would a juvenile be ok in a 20 if it's filled? I also heard that overhead lights could zap humidity, how do you keep humidity levels up in a glass enclosure?

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Most people recommend starting with a 10g just so it won't stress the hatchling out. It won't really cost a lot to upgrade to a 20 in the future anyways, you'll find some on craigslist for $30.

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Originally Posted by TheBallPython

Thanks. I'm still not sure though exactly how it'd be hooked up. If the heating pads are plugged into a thermastat, how would you hook up the dimmer? Do heating pads have more than one hookup?

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pad > dimmer > tstat

If you have two pads, plug each dimmer (with pads plugged into them) into the two different plug inputs on your tstat. The pads aren't plugged into the tstat directly, they are plugged into the dimmers which go into the tstat.

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Originally Posted by TheBallPython

Thanks :) I think I'm going to just start with a 20 to save the time/money on upgrading. Would a juvenile be ok in a 20 if it's filled?

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I would recommend starting with a 10gal, since even if you fill it up, they might get stressed by the size. They really aren't expensive if you go used - like mrshawt mentioned, you can usually find them CHEAP (sometimes even free) on craigslist. The major expenses are in the lighting and heating, but the tank itself shouldn't cost much.

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I also heard that overhead lights could zap humidity, how do you keep humidity levels up in a glass enclosure?

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I have trouble regardless of the lighting with glass enclosures, so I've been using a little moistened moss to raise it. You can buy "reptile moss" of various types at the pet store - just soak a chunk in water, squeeze it out, and scatter around the tank. I did that the other day in Mona's tank, and it brought the humidity from 43 to 58 within minutes! :gj: Just make sure to change it out frequently, so it doesn't get moldy and stinky. Misting with a spray bottle works too, but only for a short time before it drops back down.

Btw, my pastel is in a fancy wooden (with glass doors) enclosure, and I find it a million times easier to manage temps and humidity... cost me $150, though, so it depends on how much you want to invest.

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And I've seen on this site how addictive they are, how long before one do you think I'll have another? :oops: lol.

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I give it a month... LOL. :P I got my first BP in late February, then waited a whole 3 months until May to get my second - the third followed a few weeks later, and I'm already planning the fourth. :D They are great animals!

Here's a picture of my wooden enclosure, so you can see what I'm talking about... I love this tank, but can't afford to have them for every snake! I got it at a local vivarium, and they offered to buy it back (at about 40% cost) when I'm ready to upgrade to a 20gal.

Ignore the guard-kitty on top, LOL... it's the only good shot I have of the tank!
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...s/DSCF5148.jpg

OK here is my few cents...

1. Get your habitat set up and running for a few days (if not at least a week) so that you know what is happening before you get your new friend.

2. If you live in MD contact Adam Wysocki over at 8Ball Pythons. He has great animals and good prices. He is respected by almost all in the reptile community, if not it is because they are jealous! ;)

3. I would go with a tub. I spent almost $500 on a cage enclosure and it is collecting dust. Tubs are quick and easy to maintain.

If you are wanting to have an animal you can watch and be mesmerized by look at something else.

If you want an BP to display get a tank. There is a great little how-to here

Hope this helps some.

Mike

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Originally Posted by Lolo76

I would recommend starting with a 10gal, since even if you fill it up, they might get stressed by the size. They really aren't expensive if you go used - like mrshawt mentioned, you can usually find them CHEAP (sometimes even free) on craigslist. The major expenses are in the lighting and heating, but the tank itself shouldn't cost much.



I have trouble regardless of the lighting with glass enclosures, so I've been using a little moistened moss to raise it. You can buy "reptile moss" of various types at the pet store - just soak a chunk in water, squeeze it out, and scatter around the tank. I did that the other day in Mona's tank, and it brought the humidity from 43 to 58 within minutes! :gj: Just make sure to change it out frequently, so it doesn't get moldy and stinky. Misting with a spray bottle works too, but only for a short time before it drops back down.

Btw, my pastel is in a fancy wooden (with glass doors) enclosure, and I find it a million times easier to manage temps and humidity... cost me $150, though, so it depends on how much you want to invest.



I give it a month... LOL. :P I got my first BP in late February, then waited a whole 3 months until May to get my second - the third followed a few weeks later, and I'm already planning the fourth. :D They are great animals!

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This is an easier method, without the smell of swamp in your tank!

Both work, I just like Argentra's idea better.

Yep you can pic up everything you need there and at good prices... if you go with a tub just pic one up from walmart on your way...

I seem to know your situation all to well I am also 20 but i got mine at college an had to bring him home she wasnt cool with it at first she use to put towels stuffed under my room door when i wasnt home or at night... LOL... but now i have a rack and 2 additions an she still wont get close but she's cool with it... If you deside to go with I tank setup pm me an I can offer you my old one which is about 5 months old used for 3 if you can meet me somewhere I have it all and a few different size tanks 5, 10, 40(Not advertising everyone just trying to help him out)...

Thanks guys! I'll definitely be starting with a 10 gal then. Unfortunately I'm hitting some more road blocks with my mom, she just doesn't seem to realize that this snake won't kill me.. :weirdface. Keeping my fingers crossed though, at worse I'll have to wait another 2-3 years, but here's hoping! I contacted 8ball pythons and they did say they'd be setting up at the show near me. It's awesome that I'd be getting one of his snakes, they're gorgeous!

And thanks aff19802, once it gets closer I may take you up on your offer. You're pretty close, I'm sure we could easily meet up.

*oh, as a side note, i'm a she, lol. everyone on this forum thinks i'm a guy. :D

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Originally Posted by TheBallPython

Thanks guys! I'll definitely be starting with a 10 gal then. Unfortunately I'm hitting some more road blocks with my mom, she just doesn't seem to realize that this snake won't kill me.. :weirdface. Keeping my fingers crossed though, at worse I'll have to wait another 2-3 years, but here's hoping! I contacted 8ball pythons and they did say they'd be setting up at the show near me. It's awesome that I'd be getting one of his snakes, they're gorgeous!

And thanks aff19802, once it gets closer I may take you up on your offer. You're pretty close, I'm sure we could easily meet up.

*oh, as a side note, i'm a she, lol. everyone on this forum thinks i'm a guy. :D

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Yeah, parents can be difficult sometimes. Luckily there is no record I can find of a ball python injuring a human being more than a simple bite. No deaths that I can find either.

My parents still send me EVERY news article they find about snakes killing people though. And every time I explain, they are BALL PYTHONS!!! But they don't get it. They just refuse to educate themselves :( . I guess some people will just never be snake people.

All I can suggest is trying to educate your mom as much as you can. Make her read a book or research "snake attacks" or something. Snakes in my opinion are less dangerous than dogs or cats. If I get bit by a cat I am going to the hospital, with a snake? I am going to get a bandaid. Lol

Yeah, parents really just need to chill out, lol. I think what bugs me most is that I'm 20 and still have to ask permission. If it were up to me I'd already have him here! I told her there was nothing to worry about, but she keeps getting upset saying that she hasn't said yes yet. Another arguement is she says I already have enough pets, and when is enough enough.. but why does it matter? They're my pets. I pay for them, their needs, vet bills... AND they're in my room! Ugh.. ok, done venting. :D

Well, the good news is I did get her from "absolutely not" to "thinking about it", so maybe in a few more months I'll get her there.

Since I don't live with my parents anymore, I just get them well, without their permission. I have my own apartment and my landlord is OK with reptiles. I told my parents initially when I got a snake and they told me to take it back. But I wasn't about to take the love of my life back.

I have 2 more snakes and soon a crested gecko :P they still think I have one snake. What they know won't hurt them. I suppose since it sounds like you are living at home, you should get permission since it is her house. Good luck to you! I have found getting a snake to be one of the best parts of my life :)

Sounds like you need to introduce her to an ambassador snake. An adult ball python that she can touch and possibly handle.

just get a female and tell your mom its a boy :)

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Originally Posted by TheBallPython

Hello,

I am looking to get my first BP in a few months and had some questions. I have learned the basics (humidity, warm/cool side, identical hides, etc), but there are a few things I don't know. Now, I was thinking about getting my snake from the show here in havre de grace, md.. but I'm a little worried about either being ripped off, or not knowing the breeder. Is there any way to know which breeders will attend certain shows?

I was also wondering if there seems to be a temperment difference between males and females. Right now, since I'm still living with my mother, she first didn't want me to have a bp at all, then agreed on a male because they don't get as large. And on here, I have seen some MASSIVE females. However, do they get that big naturally? Or is it because of frequent feeding? I just really wish I'd be able to keep my options open with gender and be able to tell my mom that females don't really get that much bigger.

I have also seen many opinions on tank size. After what I've read, I'm thinking about going with a 20gal. Is that really large enough for a full grown BP? I was also wondering if 1 UTH would be enough? One person here told me 2 would be better for the warm and cool side since my house is a little cooler for my chinchillas, but being a 20 gal, would it really be necessary? Not that I don't trust who told me (they were a huge help), just want multiple opinions.

Thank you. :) I'll ask more questions as I think of them, lol.

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Depending on the morph you want to purchase, not sure on the pricing. I'm just guessing you want a normal. Baby normals can be anywhere from $40-$80, maybe more or maybe less. Try to get a cheap one, but make sure it's healthy.

Many females are fed A LOT for breeding purposes, so females normally don't get large unless you feed it large food items. Though, you wouldn't want her to get too fat. Females only get massive when fed large food items and given a large enclosure for space to grow. Males can also get pretty large when fed the same way and given a large enclosure.

A 20 gallon enclosure is too small for a fully grown adult BP. Adult BPs will need a 40-55 gallone enclosure. The smallest size you could go would be a 40 gallon enclosure. Also, I think 1 UTH would be just fine.

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Originally Posted by BallPythonLOVER

Depending on the morph you want to purchase, not sure on the pricing. I'm just guessing you want a normal. Baby normals can be anywhere from $40-$80, maybe more or maybe less. Try to get a cheap one, but make sure it's healthy.

Many females are fed A LOT for breeding purposes, so females normally don't get large unless you feed it large food items. Though, you wouldn't want her to get too fat. Females only get massive when fed large food items and given a large enclosure for space to grow. Males can also get pretty large when fed the same way and given a large enclosure.

A 20 gallon enclosure is too small for a fully grown adult BP. Adult BPs will need a 40-55 gallone enclosure. The smallest size you could go would be a 40 gallon enclosure. Also, I think 1 UTH would be just fine.

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Where did you get this info from? I don't believe a bp will grow according to the size of it's enclosure. Also, 40-55g? Wayyy to big imo. You can certainly do it, if you're wiling to heat it. And then there's the stress factor of the bp involved.
Can I see where you read this info?

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Originally Posted by BallPythonLOVER

Depending on the morph you want to purchase, not sure on the pricing. I'm just guessing you want a normal. Baby normals can be anywhere from $40-$80, maybe more or maybe less. Try to get a cheap one, but make sure it's healthy.

Many females are fed A LOT for breeding purposes, so females normally don't get large unless you feed it large food items. Though, you wouldn't want her to get too fat. Females only get massive when fed large food items and given a large enclosure for space to grow. Males can also get pretty large when fed the same way and given a large enclosure.

A 20 gallon enclosure is too small for a fully grown adult BP. Adult BPs will need a 40-55 gallone enclosure. The smallest size you could go would be a 40 gallon enclosure. Also, I think 1 UTH would be just fine.

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Sorry, that doesn't make any sense.

Enclosure size has nothing to do with how big they grow. Nothing at all.

a 20g long is perfectly fine for a full grown MALE bp. I would never put a male bp in anything bigger. A full grown FEMALE bp would go in a 30g long, nothing more.

A 55g is the most useless tank for a BP. It is far too tall and has about 10 more square inches of space than a 30g long.

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Originally Posted by TheBallPython

Yeah, parents really just need to chill out, lol. I think what bugs me most is that I'm 20 and still have to ask permission. If it were up to me I'd already have him here! I told her there was nothing to worry about, but she keeps getting upset saying that she hasn't said yes yet. Another arguement is she says I already have enough pets, and when is enough enough.. but why does it matter? They're my pets. I pay for them, their needs, vet bills... AND they're in my room! Ugh.. ok, done venting. :D

Well, the good news is I did get her from "absolutely not" to "thinking about it", so maybe in a few more months I'll get her there.

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Get a tub and hide him in your closet. :gj: She'll NEVER know.

I don't recommend getting a 20g to start with, you may end up buying a 10 gallon anyway because the animal may get stressed from so much space. Hides and cages must grow with the snake, the snake should not grow into them.