Burm tests in SC

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/state/c...g_Pythons.html

A friend of mine in Palm Beach sent this to me. Not sure how I feel about how the snakes are portrayed, but at least they are going to see how ridiculous that USGS map was.

Yes because every time I clean a burms cage they show me there fangs! Well at least they are testing something. I dont believe they could survive here.

The more poodles they eat the better :D

I think it would do good if they took a few stray cats out. We have a HUGE feral cat problem here. THey cause more damage yearly then any snake could.

Although I think this test will prove that they will not survive a slightly more northern climate. I think the article was ridiculous, I just can't believe how so called scientist make crap up like they would love poodles. Aren't they supposed to base their opinions in science and not speculation?? This is a small part of a very big problem. And that is that the majority of people in this country read these so called scientist opinions and take them as fact. We are losing the war on public opinion and we need to do something about it quick or your Ball Python and it's fangs will be out lawed as well! Brian(BHB)

has ANYONE ever seen substantiated reports of any large constrictor EVER successfully eating a human(even a small child)? Everything I have come across has been unsubstantiated or even proven to be a complete hoax(the guy half-inside a dead retic's sliced open stomach for example)

I agree with you two, I was reading that report and thought they made it sound like a horror movie script.

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Originally Posted by BHB

Although I think this test will prove that they will not survive a slightly more northern climate. I think the article was ridiculous, I just can't believe how so called scientist make crap up like they would love poodles. Aren't they supposed to base their opinions in science and not speculation?? This is a small part of a very big problem. And that is that the majority of people in this country read these so called scientist opinions and take them as fact. We are losing the war on public opinion and we need to do something about it quick or your Ball Python and it's fangs will be out lawed as well! Brian(BHB)

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I wouldn't call Witt Gibbons a 'so called' Scientist. He's been in charge of the Savannah River Ecology Lab for quite some time, several decades I think. And is a very well respected herpetologist who has authored several papers and booklets on reptiles from serious studies to identification guides. Some people here may even have read his works without even knowing it. I believe he wrote, or wrote a large part of, the Boy Scouts Reptile merit badge guide.

I remember watching him give a talk about 15 or so years ago on one of his projects involving the study of snake ranges and tracking their movements using PIT tagging techniques. It was a very interesting talk, but what I remember best was his quirky sense of humor. The type of humor that would be very easy to misrepresent in a printed article. I don't doubt that he actually said what he is claimed to have said in the article, what I would like to know is how he said it and the tone of voice used.

I believe that this study will show very quickly, that burmese pythons can NOT survive as far North as was claimed by that stupid map. Then there would be actual PROOF, not just guesses.

anyone have a link to the map?

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Originally Posted by Ben Biscy

anyone have a link to the map?

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http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=1875

What saddens me most about this study is the fact the burms will suffer and most likely die where they are-I live 2 hours southwest of Aiken (outside of Charleston) and the burms we have would not survive in the temps we have during the winter-it freezes here and gets into the 20's at times.

There is no way that burms will survive the winter in SC.

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

has ANYONE ever seen substantiated reports of any large constrictor EVER successfully eating a human(even a small child)? Everything I have come across has been unsubstantiated or even proven to be a complete hoax(the guy half-inside a dead retic's sliced open stomach for example)

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I don't think theres ever been a true report but I honestly would be surprised if something like that has never happened befre, especially with a small person or child. But obviously its not a common ocurrence, especially with no truely monster pythons existing anymore in the wild.

Hopefully this "test" proves how stupid that map was. It may not be humane for kind for those snakes but its fr the good of the species in the hobby and for there reputation.

i believe it was the guy from vpi,or snake keeper,that did his own temp tests,as well as i believe eugene besset,i could be mistaken,that did temp tests,that showed at 60 degrees for extrended times,burms suffer massive if not complete die off,they cant even live in orlando fla int he winter,let alone SC,why dont they do this closer to the everglades where the issue is,and stomp out any speculation,when this shows they live in sc,they will still claim as far north as georgia and over to cali,up to arizona on the west side,it will never end

and as far as a snake eating a human,i am kinda sure,if you have a 19 ft anaconda or burm,and you have a 5'2" 115 pound woman,if it started from the feet,it wouldnt be an issue at all,maybe even a good bit larger person,considering thier stretchy,and the prey sizes they tend to eat in the wild

Poodles? Now come on, my poodle is 70lbs! Not easy prey by any means! It is quite unfair to portray all poodles as easy prey people! :colbert: :)
I agree it is a inhumane way to test whether they will survive. I mean, I doubt anyone would stand by while they filled a pit with cats or some other fluffy feral species. Are they feeding the pythons?

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

has ANYONE ever seen substantiated reports of any large constrictor EVER successfully eating a human(even a small child)? Everything I have come across has been unsubstantiated or even proven to be a complete hoax(the guy half-inside a dead retic's sliced open stomach for example)

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Perhaps not eaten, but certainly killed and tried:

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,,24242797-401,00.html

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A PYTHON has killed a student zookeper at the weekend and was caught trying to swallow the man's body when horrified coworkers arrived, Venezuela's El Universal newspaper reports.
The other employees of the Caracas zoo had to beat the 3m-long Burmese Python to make it release the body of 29-year-old Erick Arrieta, whose head it was swallowing.

According to the daily, Mr Arrieta had been working the nightshift alone on Saturday, looking after the reptile section of the zoo.

The university biology student had broken the park's rules by entering the cage holding the snake, which had been donated two months ago and was not on public display, according to the zoo's management.

A snake bite on his arm indicated the python had attacked Mr Arrieta before wrapping itself around him and crushing him to death.

"The young man underestimated the animal's instinct," said the director general of the Parque del Este zoo, Javier Hernandez.

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Originally Posted by Emmastaff

Poodles? Now come on, my poodle is 70lbs! Not easy prey by any means! It is quite unfair to portray all poodles as easy prey people! :colbert: :)
I agree it is a inhumane way to test whether they will survive. I mean, I doubt anyone would stand by while they filled a pit with cats or some other fluffy feral species. Are they feeding the pythons?

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my money would be on the poodles, meanest dogs on earth!

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Originally Posted by Emmastaff

I agree it is a inhumane way to test whether they will survive. I mean, I doubt anyone would stand by while they filled a pit with cats or some other fluffy feral species. Are they feeding the pythons?

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I would be extremely surprised if they are not making sure the snakes are getting enough to eat. The study would be useless if the results come back that the snakes starved to death. They want to find out what the temperatures do to them.

Unfortunately, I don't see any other way to test if they can survive the cold temps than to expose them to the cold temps. And to conclude "they can't survive", they will have to have fatalities.

And while you are correct that doing this to snakes will cause less of an uproar than a similar experiment done on something fluffy, don't fool yourself into thinking that these kinds of experiments aren't done all the time, even to fluffy animals.

I am sad for these 7 snakes. But I'd much rather have these 7 snakes slowly die of exposure to the cold winter than to have our entire hobby slowly (or not so slowly) die of exposure to negative press based off of totally false "scientific" reports.

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Originally Posted by burmmamma

What saddens me most about this study is the fact the burms will suffer and most likely die where they are-I live 2 hours southwest of Aiken (outside of Charleston) and the burms we have would not survive in the temps we have during the winter-it freezes here and gets into the 20's at times.

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Remember that these are pythons that were captured in Florida, if they hadn't been saved for the experiment they would have been put to death anyway.

Unfortunately for the burms they will probably die from a nasty respitory infection. Should be pretty obvious, they come from tropical asia not North America. The Everglades/south Florida(asides from Hawaii) is the only place in the USA where that even comes close to their natural climate and is the only reason they can establish there.

In the long run this may be good for herpers because it will put some of these ridiculous myths to rest. I think the big question to the ones conducting the test is can they burrow down like other reptiles and find a way to escape the extreme cold and survive. this scenario is very unlikely and should prove to be the death of them.

What concerns me with these reports of these escapes burmese python populations is when the leave out the burmese and just say python. There are many many python species but most people are only aware of the really big one that ate some guy in some country so they think that all pythons are huge and dangerous. Not mentioning the species hides certain facts.

Its like saying a feline and not mentioning if its a tiger or a house cat, obviously two very different animals. I think that ridiculous report on pythons traveling all over the USA was based on 100's of python species, which come from many different places in the world and not just the ones in question. This is where they are pulling the wool over the publics eyes with out then realizing it.

The main problem with all the big snakes are the uneducated and undevoted people who buy then as little babies and then dont want to deal with them (or know how) when they get big and intimidating. They end up on the news and scare the crap out of everyone. Of course we never hear of the 10,000's of responsible herpers on the news, just like pits only the bad ones get news coverage.

It is this small irresponsible group which is ruining it for everyone.










People need education and facts not myths.

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Originally Posted by West Coast Jungle

What concerns me with these reports of these escapes burmese python populations is when the leave out the burmese and just say python. There are many many python species but most people are only aware of the really big one that ate some guy in some country so they think that all pythons are huge and dangerous. Not mentioning the species hides certain facts.

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Yes. I think a lot of people have no idea there are different species of pythons. I took my daughter to a pet store recently when we had a little bit of time we needed to kill. My daughter wanted to hold some of the reptiles, so we ended up looking at a boa. I asked the employee how big they get and was told "pretty big, but not as big as a python". Further discussion made it clear she thought the word "python" was synonymous with "giant snake".

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Originally Posted by MarkS

Remember that these are pythons that were captured in Florida, if they hadn't been saved for the experiment they would have been put to death anyway.

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They would have been humanely put to death. My husband and I have been keeping/breeding burms for years and I have seen first hand the suffering a burm can endure from an RI.
While I understand that to appease the government and those concerned about the spread of the burms into the rest of the US, information would have to be presented. I do not however agree with this "experiment". Gathering data and facts from those of us who have kept burms and doing intensive studying into our care and husbandry would yeild some very conclusive results.
Once again I do agree that the information needs to released to stop the panic associated with the supposed spread of the burms but I do not agree with the steps being taken to do so.
If we were to keep our burms in enclosures outside during the winter here in SC and someone with knowledge of reptiles were to find out and report us-number one the snakes would be seized from us and number two-we would be fined with animal cruelty.

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Originally Posted by burmmamma

If we were to keep our burms in enclosures outside during the winter here in SC and someone with knowledge of reptiles were to find out and report us-number one the snakes would be seized from us and number two-we would be fined with animal cruelty.

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i rescued a burm kept outdoors past the prime of summer. the snake did not pull through, even after extensive bills. the guy who kept the snake no longer has any animals (thanks be to god).

it's too true though; propaganda is ok, lets watch the snakes suffer. however, if you are KEEPING ONE, then you are doing something wrong. "we" can kill them in the name of science, but YOU cannot kill them as you are responsible to keep them healthy....

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Originally Posted by MarkS

I don't doubt that he actually said what he is claimed to have said in the article, what I would like to know is how he said it and the tone of voice used.

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Your right quoting out of context happens all the time with media members.

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Originally Posted by MarkS

http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=1875

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There are already studies that dispute the models laid forth by the USGS survey research.

See http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...l.pone.0002931

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Originally Posted by Mendel's Balls

There are already studies that dispute the models laid forth by the USGS survey research.

See http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...l.pone.0002931

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Thank for that link it is an excellent evaluation of the situation and possible future scenarios. This needs to be stapled on the foreheads of the paranoid folks pushing these bills based on myth and not scientific fact.

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Originally Posted by West Coast Jungle

Thank for that link it is an excellent evaluation of the situation and possible future scenarios. This needs to be stapled on the foreheads of the paranoid folks pushing these bills based on myth and not scientific fact.

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Your welcome.

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Originally Posted by MarkS

I wouldn't call Witt Gibbons a 'so called' Scientist. He's been in charge of the Savannah River Ecology Lab for quite some time, several decades I think. And is a very well respected herpetologist who has authored several papers and booklets on reptiles from serious studies to identification guides. Some people here may even have read his works without even knowing it. I believe he wrote, or wrote a large part of, the Boy Scouts Reptile merit badge guide.

I remember watching him give a talk about 15 or so years ago on one of his projects involving the study of snake ranges and tracking their movements using PIT tagging techniques. It was a very interesting talk, but what I remember best was his quirky sense of humor. The type of humor that would be very easy to misrepresent in a printed article. I don't doubt that he actually said what he is claimed to have said in the article, what I would like to know is how he said it and the tone of voice used.

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Yeah, I'd have to agree with you--although no offense to BHB. I LOVE SnakeBytes, can't get enough actually--but scientists can be a quirky bunch and can make, or attempt to make, unorthodox jokes from time to time. I wasn't there, but I can see where the reporter may have included in the article only the portions of the interview that she actually understood, and spun it to get that sensationalist response with the poodle and fangs quotes. Some folks like to stir the pot. Responsible journalism does not include sensationalist dead poodle jokes, and we don't know the context in which this comment was originally made. The good doc should not have said it to a reporter, and the reporter should not have exploited it.

Im so glad i live in Nebraska. The big bad Burms wont be able to eat me and my family up here.

though what im about to say may sound crazy but i think they are doing it for two reasons to see if the species will thrive (probly not) and they released them in a nuclear facility land to see if thier is any effect from nuclear waste (it is also a dumping site) so if they do live they will be monsters 80+ feet:rofl:

this hole research thing is a big waste of animal life. I do not understand why these scientist would put so much time and effort into this. Their are plenty of books already explaining what can happen tp these cold blood animals that they can spend their time reading about on this hole deal. I'm sorry and I know I am not the only one thinking this but their is noooooooo way exotic snakes can live in a cold climate. I've kept and breed many snakes for many years and also have done many rescues. Threw my years I have picked up snakes with ri and no matter how much you try I'm sorry but the ri will always be their. But then again someone needs to finally see that these snakes can not strive in the colder climates. I hate that those burms lives have to suffer but maybe this will get threw some of these scientist thick skulls. Just my 2 cents.