ribbon snake

my brother got bit by one today. so we kept it if we had to take him to the hospital. but I wasnt there when it happened so I couldnt tell them. lol
so now we have a wild snake thats actually pretty calm. we're probably releasing it later though.

Why would you have to keep it incase you had to take him to the hospital? Just curious?

Actually, why would you have to take him to the hospital?

I would assume because they either could not identify the snake for sure, and/or even if they knew the species, didn't know if it was a venomous species.

Not a bad idea, but it still relies on the people at the hospital to be able to identify the snake.

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Originally Posted by kc261

I would assume because they either could not identify the snake for sure, and/or even if they knew the species, didn't know if it was a venomous species.

Not a bad idea, but it still relies on the people at the hospital to be able to identify the snake.

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What's the chance of a person at a hospital being able to identify a snake. Even when I didn't know anything about snakes, I still knew a ribbon was venomous.

If you are in any doubt at ALL that you may or may not have been bitten by a venomous snake, and remember, some people simply DON'T KNOW.... it is a very good idea to attempt to collect the specimen, live or dead, for identification if you yourself can't ID it. You would rather have a monovalent anitvenin (species specific) as opposed to just a polyvalent (less specific) one and you must be able to ID the species somehow if you are to receive a species specific antivenin. If you can't ID it, hopefully you can find someone who can. A person like me would know the species if I were bitten, but many people simply have no clue, especially when they are total, out of the blue accidents!

I know, it's just kinda rather funny. I know the ins and outs trust me. I was just commenting.

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Originally Posted by Neal

I still knew a ribbon was venomous.

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they're not venomous.


you take them just in case b/c he didnt know what kind of snake it was. so yea

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Originally Posted by TylerxToxic

they're not venomous.


you take them just in case b/c he didnt know what kind of snake it was. so yea

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Yea, that was a typo. I meant to put wasn't. Glad somebody noticed that, I definately wouldn't of.

mhmm. =]

LOL, if you thought a ribbon snake was venomous, my niece would know more. I've been messing with snakes a very long time. She doesn't know anything about snakes but she knows for U.S. Snakes the spade shaped head = venomous like on most vipers throught the world because of the enlarged venom glands, she also knows that the only 2 venomous snakes that don't have the spade shaped head are the 2 coral snakes found in the u.s. and she knows to stay away from them even though she knows the color saying, which only holds true to north american corals.

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Originally Posted by TylerxToxic

they're not venomous.

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You sure about that?

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

You sure about that?

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I'm sure they're not lol. I just made a typo, and happens a lot because I type too fast.

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Originally Posted by Neal

I'm sure they're not lol. I just made a typo, and happens a lot because I type too fast.

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I think you were right the first time.........

Oh, come on, let's not get into that discussion.

Sure, some people have had bad reactions to Thamnophis bites. I don't think they're venomous... I think those people just happen to be allergic to some saliva. We all know saliva has enzymes in it, and that doesn't make a snake venomous.

Well if you want to consider that, I know about that but i mean actually considered venomous. They're not considered venomous, like dutch said, an allergic reaction to some saliva.

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

Oh, come on, let's not get into that discussion.

Sure, some people have had bad reactions to Thamnophis bites. I don't think they're venomous... I think those people just happen to be allergic to some saliva. We all know saliva has enzymes in it, and that doesn't make a snake venomous.

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Thamnophis are venomous. When it comes to venom, I read Fry's work. If Fry says they are venomous and posts the research to back it up (which he does and has) - I go with him. Beats getting my info from Wikipedia. Or shopping for opinions on the forums.................

http://www.venomdoc.com/forums/viewt...ophis&start=10

Oh noes! Even Wikipedia has their facts straight! Extra! Extra! Thamnophis now considered venomous! Wikipedia says so!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garter_snake

The yield may be small and their teeth ill-designed to effect medically significant results on a human - but the fact remains, they produce venom.

As to the myth that people can be spontaneously allergic to a venom they've never been exposed to:

http://www.venomdoc.com/forums/viewt...ght=thamnophis

So Neal, your first statement was correct. They not only are considered venomous, but studies have been done that prove that they are.

Interesting. I knew they produced something like that, but I wasn't aware that they're now considered venomous. That's like my little rufous, he doesn't bite or hasn't ever attempted to and i've yet to find any cases of them biting, but he is rear-fanged consider venomous, even though I do not consider him it.

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Originally Posted by Neal

Interesting. I knew they produced something like that, but I wasn't aware that they're now considered venomous. That's like my little rufous, he doesn't bite or hasn't ever attempted to and i've yet to find any cases of them biting, but he is rear-fanged consider venomous, even though I do not consider him it.

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When you have the time, I cannot recommend enough reading through Fry's website.

The main page has links to his publications and even though it's dry reading, his papers on colubrid venom are interesting.

His forum also has several long and informative threads regarding colubrids, how he rates them in terms of potency and how many specvies we consider non-venomous, actually are.

I will go read it in a bit, and continue to read over the next few days. I know he discovered that they have a sub-species of beaked snakes that is very potent.

well like he got bit by it. and nothing happened it got him pretty good. he held on for like 10 seconds maybe.

It would have to walk bite, and then it would have to get a really good latch on, and not everybody will have ill effects from it.

skip, if you didn't come off as a jerk, your posts might carry more weight. you get more bees with honey than vinegar.

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Originally Posted by Neal

Interesting. I knew they produced something like that, but I wasn't aware that they're now considered venomous. That's like my little rufous, he doesn't bite or hasn't ever attempted to and i've yet to find any cases of them biting, but he is rear-fanged consider venomous, even though I do not consider him it.

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I've got a couple papers on my hard drive regarding studies done on Rufoxin - which is the neurotoxin in rhamphiophis venom..........the conclusions are far from earth-shattering, but they may interest you.

Fry does a nice job of ranking the different colubrids in terms of potential risk on a couple of his threads. The difference between rhamphiophis and thamnophis is that rufous snakes are a marginally better equipped to actually get some juice into you.

I don't have the link handy, but Fry's studies pretty much concluded that with the exception of pantherophis, elaphe, lampropeltis and pituophis - all colubrids are technically venomous.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

I've got a couple papers on my hard drive regarding studies done on Rufoxin - which is the neurotoxin in rhamphiophis venom..........the conclusions are far from earth-shattering, but they may interest you.

Fry does a nice job of ranking the different colubrids in terms of potential risk on a couple of his threads. The difference between rhamphiophis and thamnophis is that rufous snakes are a marginally better equipped to actually get some juice into you.

I don't have the link handy, but Fry's studies pretty much concluded that with the exception of pantherophis, elaphe, lampropeltis and pituophis - all colubrids are technically venomous.

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If you could find me the papers or a link or something to read up on, I would greatly appreciate it. It took me about 6 months to locate a rufous, and I did a lot of re-search on them before I got my little guy, but the information if vague, not too much on it. I know they nicknamed the toxin from them rufoxin. I would like to know how potent the venom is and the re-actions and tests done, though it will not change me handling my little guy. All the reports i've read I couldn't find one single bite report of a rufous, and I handle him everyday without a longsleeve shirt & gloves.

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Originally Posted by Neal

If you could find me the papers or a link or something to read up on, I would greatly appreciate it. It took me about 6 months to locate a rufous, and I did a lot of re-search on them before I got my little guy, but the information if vague, not too much on it. I know they nicknamed the toxin from them rufoxin. I would like to know how potent the venom is and the re-actions and tests done, though it will not change me handling my little guy. All the reports i've read I couldn't find one single bite report of a rufous, and I handle him everyday without a longsleeve shirt & gloves.

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Neal:

PM me with your e-mail and I'll send over the files.

yes indeed, thamnophis are technically venomous!!!

I really need to get out my camera and try and get some of those big rear teeth on my FL blues exposed!!!