ASF Pros & Cons

I know that African Soft Fured Rats getting more and more popular as ball python feeders
I would like to know your experiences with them and opinion about them
Thanks
Rafal

Getting more and more popular? ASFs are a BPs natural food source. I think they're great for starting problem feeders and fasting females back on a normal schedule. I use 1, they eat it and the following week they eat anything. Cons? BPs imprint, and you might get a snake with a taste for rodent delicacies, taking a couple extra dollars out of your pocket.

This is a good question. I've herd ASF's are escape artists but thats to be expected with a rat. I'm at the point where I'm not too fond of un-thawing 15-20 rats/mice a week and want to start a rat rack but I'm not sure if I should go ASF or not.:confused:

another pro is that they dont outgrow a ball

Pros -
- Less odor than 'regular' rats
- They breed, and breed, and breed very easy to keep enough on hand

Cons -
- Imprinting. I personally would never start a hatchling on ASFs
- They are fast, some BP's have a hard time catching them if they are live (say a spinning spider...)

There are a TON more of each, but my brain doesn't work right now...

Everything in this post is "regurgitated" info that I read from someone else posting it, because I've never owned an ASF nor fed one to one of my snakes. However, I have been thinking about starting an ASF colony, so I have researched it quite a lot.

You didn't state if you are thinking of breeding your own ASFs, or just purchasing them as feeders. There is a somewhat different list of pros & cons for both situations.

As feeders:
Pros:
- like mice & rats, they are perfect nutritionally for BPs (at least as far as we know, since BP nutritional requirements haven't been scientifically researched)
- most BPs will readily take ASFs, even if they are used to feeding on something else
- many problem feeders (WCs, hatchlings, snakes that are fasting, or snakes that are just picky) will take ASFs even when they won't take a mouse or rat
- it appears that ASFs can be used to "jump start" problem feeders, then they usually can easily be switched to other types of food
Cons:
- possibility of imprinting, then you'd have to feed that snake ASFs forever (I see lots of people concerned about this, but I'm not sure I've seen even one post of someone that has actually experienced it)
- reduction of saleability of the snake: people who don't have ASFs available to them may be reluctant to purchase a snake that has been feeding on ASFs
- possibly more dangerous to feed live, because they are more aggressive than mice or rats
- lack of availability, unless you breed your own, you may have trouble finding them

As breeders:
Pros:
- once established, they breed prolifically
- unlike rats, they never get too big for BPs
- unlike mice, you won't have to feed multiples all the time (I would guess some situations like maybe a female that just laid and is trying to gain back the weight, but most of the time a single full grown ASF should do it)
- less odor than mice or rats
Cons:
- they grow slowly compared to rats
- some breeders report problems with them chewing out of plastic tubs or chewing up water bottles, so you may need to use glass tanks & bottles
- some breeders report problems getting a colony started, but it doesn't seem to be as bad as getting mice started
- they can be aggressive, especially when defending babies, so you are more likely to get bitten than with mice or rats

I've been breeding ASF's for the last year or better.
I'll try to put some I didn't see up there.

Pro's.
- Never out grow a Ball
- big litters
- they make a latrine an all use it
- can stand warmer temps than rats or mice

Cons:
- Take for ever to get big enough to be a meal for a Ball
- Fast if you drop one forget it get a pellet gun.
- they bite....hard

They are evil...

To anyone tired of thawing feeders but don't want to feed live, I just want to say that it might be worth your time to learn to perform cervical dislocation so you can just fresh kill and feed P/K. You have the benefit of feeding safely that you get from f/t, with convenience of offering live feeders you raise yourself.

i just thought of one that would go into the cons for the breeder is that some chew up their food

another pro for breeders is that they require less maintinence because you dont have to change their bedding as often as mice and rats and you dont have to remove the male when there is a litter

And to help with any escapee issues, this was posted in an asf escape thread a while ago:

YouTube - Building a Better Mouse Trap!! (ORIGINAL VERSION)

just remember not to feed off or reintroduce caught escapees back into the group, there are health concerns.

thats a cool idea, i never saw that thread.
the last mouse was pretty stupid to jump jump in

I wouldnt be surprised if an adult ASF could jump out of the bucket though

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Originally Posted by pavlovk1025

Getting more and more popular? ASFs are a BPs natural food source. I think they're great for starting problem feeders and fasting females back on a normal schedule. I use 1, they eat it and the following week they eat anything. Cons? BPs imprint, and you might get a snake with a taste for rodent delicacies, taking a couple extra dollars out of your pocket.

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For what it's worth, I've personally never had any of mine imprint on ASF's. I started all my hatchlings on live ASF hoppers last season (because I don't breed mice), and all switched readily to regular rats.

When I have an abundance of ASF's, I have no problem feeding them off to my crew and then switching back to rats the following week.

The one issue I have not seen covered is availability. Some states outlaw ASF's so if you move or want to sell animals feeding on ASF's this could be a limiting factor.:confused:

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- possibly more dangerous to feed live, because they are more aggressive than mice or rats

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This was a concern of mine when ASF's first became the "rage". I was very anti-ASF's at the time.

However, it's been my experience that ASF's are no more "flexible" than rats or mice, so, they have no magical powers to actually inflict any more damage to your snakes than any other frightened prey.

My ball pythons (and king snake that gets live ASF hoppers) are very efficient hunters and injury is rare. The most severe injury from any prey item has been a scratch, and that is after feeding thousands of live prey items off in the past four years.

I often don't even know when an ASF has been hit by the snakes, because they don't make a sound when hit, unlike mice and rats that often let out a loud squeek.

Yes, they are more aggressive than mice and rats, but that tends to be more in general, every day life in their enclosure. My male will literally leap off their hide to get to my hand if I reach in to upright their exercise wheel. He usually nails me once a month. One of these days, I keep telling him - one of these days he's going to become dinner! :colbert:

I thought if the ASFs were frozen then they are ok in the outlawed states, may be wrong but im not sure

In my experience i havent had any of my asfs attack me like Robin says her male does

We feed both regular rats and ASF's and were very concerned about issues surrounding prey imprinting. However, our experience over the past couple of years seems to be that most of the snakes could care less as long as it's warm, furry and a rodent - it's dinnertime! We have the occasional stubborn snake that will eat only one particular thing but that's just how it is and doesn't seem (at least in our experience) to be related to ASF's but more just the way that specific snake is.

We started our babies last year regular rat pinks, switched back and forth between regular rats and ASF's to see how that went and quite honestly none of those babies imprinted strongly either way. :)

Over the next year we'll likely be moving more and more to feeding ASF's as they take less room to keep, are a community rodent so easier to manage, have less smell and never outgrown our BP's needs. I've noticed as we've raised more and more generations that they are slightly less nippy but the males especially will still give a strong bite (or females with litters). I can't blame any animal though for protecting it's group, that's just nature and completely understandable.

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

They are evil...

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Now this is true! They can be nasty little suckers:O

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Originally Posted by rabernet

For what it's worth, I've personally never had any of mine imprint on ASF's. I started all my hatchlings on live ASF hoppers last season (because I don't breed mice), and all switched readily to regular rats.

When I have an abundance of ASF's, I have no problem feeding them off to my crew and then switching back to rats the following week.

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I alternate weekly. I bought F/T prey from a local breeder and I just chose size not species so I have mice rats and asfs from 20gms-60gms, covering the spectrum. I read that they imprint but havent heard about anyone that had a BP only eat ASFs.

i used live asf and rats pups when i need rodents , they do produce fast if allowed to do so and they do take a while to get up to size. They do better on the same food as my rats and they don't stink as bad I am changing my rat tank about every 5 days and the asf are about once a week to every 9 days.

The asf love t ochew I too to making a mini table from a piece of plywood and 4 small 1x4 leggs and they chew it up ( seen it on here ) This has cut down on the number of bottles they chew up ( also helped I went to glass lol) and the table doubles as a place for them to hide when scared.