New breeding normal (and other critters)

After lots of thinking and weighing the options, I decided to go ahead and get a large breeding female... I originally wanted another Pastel or Spider to breed with Toby, but it just wasn't feasible for the upcoming season. I'm actually on vacation in San Diego right now, and knew they had a few reputable breeders around - so I went to one of them, and put a deposit on an adult 0.1 normal I'll pick up on Tuesday (before heading home). I think they said she weighs ~700g now, and is a very good eater, so she should be ready to breed next season.

She's a little shy from living in a store/breeder, but I think she will be very sweet after some handling. Here are a couple of pictures from the store (crappy cell phone camera), and a few other animals I saw while there. FYI - she was literally shedding at this moment, so her color is a little faded. But of all the large females they had, we agreed she'd be the prettiest match with my Toby. I'll post better pics when I have her home!

Seriously shedding...
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...ts/NewGirl.jpg

Her "cagemate" who seemed nicer, but wasn't quite as pretty (mine is behind her)
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...ts/Female2.jpg

Some of the new babies - awwwww
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...ts/BabyBPs.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...s/BabyBPs2.jpg

Tree Python... I love these snakes, especially the yellow variety
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...TreePython.jpg

And finally, a giant tortoise and his little(r) friend
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...s/Tortoise.jpg

I'm happy for you that you're getting her, but I think I'd be questionable on this being a "reputable" breeder, without knowing who it is. From the pictures, the animals don't look well cared for. The babies are too thin, your girl needs shed assistance, and the green tree pythons look dehydrated.:(

agreed and the gtp also looks like it could use a good soaking if i am correct in seeing some stuck shed

Oh snap! She'll be better when she's in your hands Im sure.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

I'm happy for you that you're getting her, but I think I'd be questionable on this being a "reputable" breeder, without knowing who it is. From the pictures, the animals don't look well cared for. The babies are too thin, your girl needs shed assistance, and the green tree pythons look dehydrated.:(

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Hmmmmmm... well, it's a local exotics specialty shop with a good/long reputation, at least according to the locals. Now you have me worried, though, so I might go check out another place tomorrow (South Bay Reptiles or LLLReptile). My deposit at the other store could be applied to credit, and would easily cover the cage & supplies.

I don't know enough about GTPs to comment on dehydration, and I thought the baby BPs looked perfectly healthy in person. As for the shedding on my girl, she literally started that as I was standing there. Like five minutes earlier she was only showing it on the nose, and didn't start shedding the rest until I came back to peek in on her. It seemed to be sliding off easily, and the store clerk was watching with me.... so I'm sure they will help if it gets stuck. Overall I thought they were very knowledgeable, and they even have a special "reptile staff" and counter, so you aren't getting general help. But if you see red flags, I will certainly go check out the other places & compare. Thanks for the comments, and I'll let you know what happens. :oops:

Here's where that snake is from: http://www.yelp.com/biz/pet-kingdom-san-diego

They got 4/5 stars with 24 reviews, which is very good for Yelpers. The only bad reviews were regarding customer service (they were very friendly to me!), and one person who claims his lizard had mites - but another poster called them uninformed, yadda yadda. Anyway, I would appreciate more input asap, before I make the final decision on this girl!

P.S. Can somebody post a link to that site where people review snake breeders? I couldn't remember it the other day, which is why I ended up on Yelp. :rolleyes:

i hope you can get what you want in your care, on top of what all have said, the fact that there are multiple bp's in one enclosure is not a sign that the person knows whats good for the animal. I understand maybe needing multiple animals in an enclosure, but imo that would be fish. A good breeder of bp's will have one per enclosure...anyways if you get one it will be better in your care for sure....:)

What to do, what to do? :rolleye2:

So......... do y'all think I should take her or not? Waltah sent me the BOI link (thanks!), and I just perused it for a little while. Reptile Kingdom got mostly good comments, and the bad ones were only regarding customer service & money. Apparently they are more reliable than LLL, so I'm not sure things are as bad as they appeared. Regardless, like a few of you said, she would be better in my care - but I don't want an unhealthy or poorly bred snake. Argh!

I have been to "Pet Kingdom" and it isnt the best reptile store but average. It has a lot of stuff, more then the average place, and the animals are kept somewhat well. Example. Many of the snakes are not housed together. Ball pythons are usually kept singularly. A thing that did bother me tho are those Sulcatas (sp?) you pictured, last time I was in there was about 10 in the 10x10 pin ranging in sizes from 10" to 20" all fighting and such. It was sad. Some knoledgable staff and some not buttttt a couple cute girls who work there as well :oops:.

The only Pet Kingdom reviews that I could find on the BOI were from 2002. There was an inquiry on the previous owner who sold it, and comment were made that it went downhill after he sold it:

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...ht=Pet+Kingdom

There's a questionable thread about buying animals from LLL Reptiles (another that you mentioned) on the BOI that's more recent.

I wouldn't call any of them "breeders" though. Pet stores just aren't the place I'd be looking for a larger, healthier snake.

If you have the time, why not put up an inquiry on the BOI to get the most recent reviews of Pet Kingdom?

A 700 gram female is not likely going to be ready to breed THIS coming season, if that's what your ultimate goal is. She still needs to gain at least 800 grams, which is double her weight in just a few months to be ready to go this season.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

There's a questionable thread about buying animals from LLL Reptiles (another that you mentioned) on the BOI that's more recent.

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Yeah, I was just warned about LLL, so they're off my list... I'm still shopping around, and might have a better option or two. :gj:

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I wouldn't call any of them "breeders" though. Pet stores just aren't the place I'd be looking for a larger, healthier snake.

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I thought this place was more of a vivarium, like East Bay Vivarium where I got Delilah - which has only glowing reviews on BOI. I still don't know how to feel about Pet Kingdom, but I'm leaning towards using that deposit for a tank instead.

FYI: Since I started this discussion, I sent another email to 8BallPythons (already tried about 2 weeks ago with no response), since it clearly says "large female normals available now." If they don't get back to me, I found a few others on the BOI classifieds... any opinions on Zoo Herps, or Pacific Coast Reptiles?

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If you have the time, why not put up an inquiry on the BOI to get the most recent reviews of Pet Kingdom?

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I don't live in San Diego, and will be heading home (San Francisco) on Tuesday... which is probably why I got over-excited, since it's harder to find BPs in the Bay Area. East Bay Viv had a few normal adults last time I visited, but they were asking $250 for them. :O

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A 700 gram female is not likely going to be ready to breed THIS coming season, if that's what your ultimate goal is. She still needs to gain at least 800 grams, which is double her weight in just a few months to be ready to go this season.

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I'm not sure exactly when the next season starts, but I meant ~1 year from now. My male is only 300g last I checked, and won't be ready until at least winter '09-10... he's a voracious eater, though, so I'm counting on him to "make weight" within the year. ;)

Thanks everyone for the input, and I'll let you know what happens!

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Originally Posted by ryan9815

I have been to "Pet Kingdom" and it isnt the best reptile store but average. It has a lot of stuff, more then the average place, and the animals are kept somewhat well. Example. Many of the snakes are not housed together. Ball pythons are usually kept singularly. A thing that did bother me tho are those Sulcatas (sp?) you pictured, last time I was in there was about 10 in the 10x10 pin ranging in sizes from 10" to 20" all fighting and such. It was sad. Some knoledgable staff and some not buttttt a couple cute girls who work there as well :oops:.

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LOL... sorry, but I was only looking at the hot tattooed men. :D For the record, those were the only 2 tortoises in the tank, and they just happened to be climbing on each other (as they often do). As for the BPs being housed together, I believe that's only for sale purposes, since he said she was "raised in a rack tub." I'm sure they housed her alone in the tub, and were just putting them on display for sale. Not sure if that's any better, but thought I'd mention it!

Adam at 8ball is someone who would sell you a quality adult female. However, I know he's been more difficult to reach lately, as he's been very involved with Pijac since HR669, and is attending a lot of meetings in D.C.

Have you tried to call him? His number is listed on his site.

You might also try placing a "wanted" classified in our classifieds forum and members here can PM you if they have any adult females available.

$250 for a breedable weight female, especially a proven female is not a bad price. Just 2 years ago, people were willing to pay over $1000 for a breedable weight normal female.

How does this girl look? http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...t=adult+female

Btw, he is NOT the same as this breeder, who had that business name in 2002... http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...Coast+Reptiles

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Adam at 8ball is someone who would sell you a quality adult female. However, I know he's been more difficult to reach lately, as he's been very involved with Pijac since HR669, and is attending a lot of meetings in D.C.

Have you tried to call him? His number is listed on his site.

You might also try placing a "wanted" classified in our classifieds forum and members here can PM you if they have any adult females available.

$250 for a breedable weight female, especially a proven female is not a bad price. Just 2 years ago, people were willing to pay over $1000 for a breedable weight normal female.

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Thanks for the info and the PM, and I will try your suggestions. That reduced-pattern from Pacific Coast Reptiles looks promising, otherwise I might just go with East Bay Viv or call 8Ball. Muchas gracias!

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Originally Posted by Lolo76

How does this girl look? http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...t=adult+female

Btw, he is NOT the same as this breeder, who had that business name in 2002... http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...Coast+Reptiles

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I like her a lot - but I'm also a huge reduced pattern fan too.

One thing to consider if you're planning to breed to your pastel and you want to produce the nicest babies that you can, is to try to find you a nice light colored female. The normal does have influence on the quality of the babies that you produce.

Here's an example of a female that I chose to use last year to breed to my pastel:

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...e/IMG_5170.jpg

Ooooh, that's a pretty normal. :) I was thinking that reduced might be too dark, especially since I'm aiming for an eventual super pastel clutch - and Toby has a beautiful light color. But that girl from Pacific Coast is so nice looking!

Sorry, one more to show you! http://www.flickr.com/photos/37541902@N07/3562371785/
Gee, can you tell I've been stewing over this all night? :D She's a nice looking light-ish normal advertised on BOI, and I love that beautiful stripe down her back... she's 1200g and they are asking $150.

Keep in mind ball python net has many many great breeders, imo if you want a good animal, one you know is well cared for, go with one of the many here, or you could check out the following of many sites...

Brain at BHB'
Adam at 8ball
Justin at Jkolybka lol not spelled right
Heather at heather herps
Ralph at ralph davis reptiles
Exotics by Nature

The list is endless, well not endless but a good start....anyways you very seldom go wrong with reputable breeders, my two cents....sorry for those i left off the list, just giving examples:)

that is NOT a GTP. that is an emerald tree boa!!! if it was marked as a green tree then im not sure i would even shop at that store.

Thanks for the list of breeders! I've already been to most of the big sites, and they just don't seem to work out - either too expensive, not what I'm looking for, no communication, etc. I also really wanted to pick her out in person, but I guess that might not happen. I'll find my girl somehow... :)

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Originally Posted by Lucas339

that is NOT a GTP. that is an emerald tree boa!!! if it was marked as a green tree then im not sure i would even shop at that store.

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My bad... I'm sure it was marked correctly, I just mis-identified it. Like I said, those are not a breed I know anything about! :oops:

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Originally Posted by Lolo76

Sorry, one more to show you! http://www.flickr.com/photos/37541902@N07/3562371785/
Gee, can you tell I've been stewing over this all night? :D She's a nice looking light-ish normal advertised on BOI, and I love that beautiful stripe down her back... she's 1200g and they are asking $150.

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Yes, I've seen that ad - and she IS very nice looking and one I wouldn't mind adding myself. Check out the BOI for feedback on the seller and if no red flags are raised, I think that's a much better choice than the one at Pet Kingdom.

I agree with Robin that the last one posted would be a much better choice. Don't forget that if there are no posts regarding the seller that you can post an inquiry about them. Good luck!

Thanks to everyone for the input, and I have found a much better girl thanks to J&JReptiles (from this forum). I'll just use the deposit at Pet Kingdom for her tank & accessories, which should cost just a little more than I put down. Here's a link to my NEW female's picture, and I think she will make beautiful babies with Toby... http://www.jnjreptiles.com/pictures/4.jpg

(She's arriving on Wednesday, and I'll post more pics then)