Check out this interesting clutch!

Lesser x normal yields... a white snake that looks like an ivory???
http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1704292,1704292

The "Normal" looks like a yellow belly to me. I'm more thrown off about a Lesser x Yellow Belly = Ivory... Maybe Ben has a Yellow Belly Lesser and wasn't aware of it. Seems unlikely but plausible.

Yea no way that a lesser threw an Ivory.

Yeah, that is what some people are speculating on the thread over there.

I don't see YB in the mom myself, but I already know I'm just HORRIBLE at recognizing them, so that doesn't mean much.

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Originally Posted by kc261

Yeah, that is what some people are speculating on the thread over there.

I don't see YB in the mom myself, but I already know I'm just HORRIBLE at recognizing them, so that doesn't mean much.

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She has a clear belly and has the signs on her belly. In my opinion she isn't the greatest example of a yellow belly but I think she is none the less. Ben said that he knew Yellowbelly x Lesser throws white snakes, that's the first I've heard of that. Does anyone have a link to a page where I can see a clutch that did?

The little white snake in that clutch is definitely an Ivory though.

Of course they don't tell you if it was a double sired clutch.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Of course they don't tell you if it was a double sired clutch.

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This is true, I didn't consider that.

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Originally Posted by AaronP

She has a clear belly and has the signs on her belly. In my opinion she isn't the greatest example of a yellow belly but I think she is none the less. Ben said that he knew Yellowbelly x Lesser throws white snakes, that's the first I've heard of that. Does anyone have a link to a page where I can see a clutch that did?

The little white snake in that clutch is definitely an Ivory though.

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I did not mean that I knew yellowbelly x lesser makes white snakes--I was speculating that possibly it does. It was just one a few possible scenarios I was running through my head. I wrote.



"Then I thought, well I guess the female is a yb and lesser x yb does in fact make white snakes, and the 3 nicer lessers are lesserbellys."

I actually had thought that yellowbelly x lesser will NOT make a white snake, but then again--how many clutches of yellowbelly x lesser has anyone heard of?--Enough to actually say definately not a possibility? I have only heard of one other confirmed yb x lesser clutch and no it did not produce the white.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Of course they don't tell you if it was a double sired clutch.

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And of course, had that been the case, I would have mentioned it. If it was a double sired clutch, I would not have even posted it up as I would have had my answer already. I disclosed all info on the breeding with the pictures of the mother. It was my first clutch of the year and was only bred using my lesser male. I have another 2 clutches from him to normals, and will like to see if they produce any ybs in the clutch--that would be confirmation that he is in fact a yb lesser. I would also like to see if there are any pics of yb lessers floating around as 3 of the lessers look different than the fourth.

I was actually browsing those pics and it really caught my attention regarding the possibility why it produced an ivory. There's no clearer pic of the mom's belly, making it hard to speculate if its truly a yb. But how can he produce an ivory if the dad would be the only one carrying the yb gene? Confusing right? :) My opinion regarding the breeding is that the mom maybe just a not-so-very good example of a yb, but a yb indeed. And the dad may be a lesser yb, that he just didnt noticed due to lessers very light coloring and hi flames. Well, just my 2 cents. Unless its a double sired clutch. :)

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Of course they don't tell you if it was a double sired clutch.

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I was assuming that since that possibility wasn't mentioned, that it wasn't. Not always safe to assume though.

It could also be retained sperm, I suppose.

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Originally Posted by AaronP

Ben said that he knew Yellowbelly x Lesser throws white snakes, that's the first I've heard of that. Does anyone have a link to a page where I can see a clutch that did?

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If this is true, I'd definitely like to know about it! It certainly goes against everything I thought I knew about how to produce ivories and BELs.

If you are referring to the sentence where he says "Then I thought, well I guess the female is a yb and lesser x yb does in fact make white snakes", you have interpreted it differently than I did. I thought he meant his thought at the time was that this clutch was proving that lesser x yb can make a white snake, rather than that it had been proven in the past.

Ben please don't take offence at my comment I was simply saying that there are allot of possiable reasons for that out come..Its intresting to see why a YB to lesser would make an Ivory.. I wonder if a Lesser to spector would make a Super stripe..

Well, this issue just adds to the ever-expanding possibilities of a yellow belly when mixed w/ other traits. :)

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Originally Posted by kc261

If you are referring to the sentence where he says "Then I thought, well I guess the female is a yb and lesser x yb does in fact make white snakes", you have interpreted it differently than I did. I thought he meant his thought at the time was that this clutch was proving that lesser x yb can make a white snake, rather than that it had been proven in the past.

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exactly what I meant, but stated much more clearly-THANKS!

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Originally Posted by siegelreptiles

I did not mean that I knew yellowbelly x lesser makes white snakes--I was speculating that possibly it does. It was just one a few possible scenarios I was running through my head. I wrote.

"Then I thought, well I guess the female is a yb and lesser x yb does in fact make white snakes, and the 3 nicer lessers are lesserbellys."

I actually had thought that yellowbelly x lesser will NOT make a white snake, but then again--how many clutches of yellowbelly x lesser has anyone heard of?--Enough to actually say definately not a possibility? I have only heard of one other confirmed yb x lesser clutch and no it did not produce the white.

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Oh okay, I misunderstood you then. But in my opinion I think you got a Yellow Belly Lesser Ben!

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Ben please don't take offence at my comment I was simply saying that there are allot of possiable reasons for that out come..Its intresting to see why a YB to lesser would make an Ivory.. I wonder if a Lesser to spector would make a Super stripe..

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no prob---I am actually leaning towards thinking the male lesser is a lesser yellowbelly. It fits perfectly and he is quite pretty for a lesser.

I'll be really interested to see the results of the sire's other clutches. Exciting for you if you have a lesser yb, but even more exciting if it appears the sire does not have yb in him. What sort of possibilities does that open up?

Either way - it's a way cool clutch! AND - :welcome: Ben to BP.net, we're happy to have you!

heyy,Bens here,great clutch man,,,i really need to make the jaunt down to your shop someday

thanks everyone-longtime lurker-just registered the other day

I would like to think that the mom is a YB and Daddy is Lessorbelly.
I would also like to think that Mom is a new morph that when bred to the Blue eyed complex (Lessor,Butter,Mojo) produces an animal similar to an Ivory.

Either way that is an awsome surprise to have.

My other thought since he stated it is not multiple males, and I believe it was mentioned above would be retained sperm. Do you know she was in fact a virgin, just asking not accusing.

I had the snake about a year and did not attempt breeding last year as she was not of size-would have to doubt sperm retention.

Anyone have some pics of lesser x yellowbellys? Would love to hear from anyone else who has produced clutches from lesser x yellowbellys.

Wow that is quite a clutch!
My guess is also a lesser belly to yellowbelly but the idea of another unknown genetic possibility is very interesting.

Congrats and welcome Ben:gj:

Ben,
Let me tell you, thats snakes verry bad for your collection. I will pay the shipping charges and waive my typical fee's to Adopt a snake. I will take really really good care of him/her :p.

Seriously, I'm very interested in this. Congrats.....I'm really curious to see if your onto something.

Scott @ CvExotics has a lesser yellow belly male. So, they are around. Who knows how that white snake popped up.

we will see. If anybody knows of anyone who has bred yellowbelly x lesser, and the results, that would be much appreciated.

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Originally Posted by siegelreptiles

we will see. If anybody knows of anyone who has bred yellowbelly x lesser, and the results, that would be much appreciated.

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Ben - Hope these pics help solve the puzzle. :confused: Butter Belly was produced(Oct. 08) by my Butter breeder male paired with a BRIGHT/FLASHY Y.B.. I am am one who believes the Butter and Lesser are different -- yet similar morphs. The Lesser Belly could not be too much different than my guy I would think?

The breeding pic shows him trying to figure out "what goes where"?? He has not bred yet -- but will have the summer to figure it out. ;)

What is the history on the male --pics?? Did he come from Amir? Based on the pics and current info, I would agree on the "little white guy" being an Ivory -- FUN STUFF!!!!

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...00_grams_7.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...00_grams_4.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...ly_belly_2.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...elly_belly.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...y_x_pastel.jpg

Love the head pattern on this butter belly! Thanks for sharing

There is a picture of a hatchling lesser goblin (RDR's line of yellow belly) in 2006 clutch 36 at http://ralphdavisreptiles.com/birthi...thons_4_06.asp

thanks for the link randy--will just have to let them shed and see what they look like. I think I have 3 lesserbellys and one lesser--

Im not complaining.

Would still like to hear of any other lesser x yellowbelly clutches---