Provent-A-Mite

Just got off the phone with pro-products.com. i called to to check on my order for PAM to see if it shipped yet since we only live and hour or so from them. I was told New York state E.P.A has banned the sale of Provent-A-Mite in NY. so all of us new yorkers are completely out of luck. now what do i use? and dont say Black Night cause thats a no no also!:rage::rage::rage::mad::mad:

**removed to comply with site TOS.**

Guys,

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Originally Posted by Site T.O.S.

8. No posts promoting illegal behavior will be tolerated, including but not limited to warez/pirating of copyrighted material, illegal drug or alcohol usage, and illegal ownership or trafficking of species.

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dr del

maybe some of the old school breeders can provide some info on the old school pest strips.

One thing that has worked for me in an emergency, which I do not recommend unless there is nothing else is Dust off, the lowest number( I think 7 or 5, what ever is lower). IT worked well but if dont incorrectly can cause problems just like any other mite prevention.

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Originally Posted by dr del

Guys,




dr del

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Banning the sale, not the ownership of the product. just like in Canada. ordering it from a place that is allowed to sell it isn't "promoting illegal activities" because they are not breaking any laws unless its illegal to own said product. in which case pre-existing owners and people who still have a shelf full of it at there store are in trouble. The OP wasn't told he couldn't own it. unless he didnt specify. just IMO

they could even just give him a can as long as they are not selling it.

i gave the exact same answer others have given in this forum to canadians who have a hard time locating PAM. "buy it from some where that its legal to sell it and have it shipped"

not trying to cause a problem. just don't think what i said was against any rules.

Ok the sale of it in NY is no good, but what if you had a friend out of state that sends you PAM as a gift? Hypothetically speaking of course. I wonder if its the sale and transport or just the sale...

Derek- You can remove my post if it is violating TOS but it was not my intention to do so.

Edit: I was getting at something similar to what you just said :) Little slow though...

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Originally Posted by JeffJ

Banning the sale, not the ownership of the product. just like in canada. ordering it from a place that is allowed to sell it isn't "promoting illegal activities" IMO

they could even just give him a can as long as they are not selling it.

i gave the exact same answer others have given in this forum to canadians who have a hard time locating PAM. "buy it from some where that its legal to sell it and have it shipped"

not trying to cause a problem. just don't think what i said was against any rules.

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I've had success with Reptile Relief..not sure if the ban would still apply..worth a shot
http://naturalchemistry.com/

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Originally Posted by JeffJ

Banning the sale, not the ownership of the product. just like in Canada.

i gave the exact same answer others have given in this forum to canadians who have a hard time locating PAM. "buy it from some where that its legal to sell it and have it shipped"

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PAM's not illegal to sell in Canada... I can name several places off the top of my head where I've seen it being sold, including the place I've bought a can from on two occasions.

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Originally Posted by Pandora

PAM's not illegal to sell in Canada... I can name several places off the top of my head where I've seen it being sold.

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every place i go to say they wont carry it because its not legally approved for use on pets in Canada, there fore the cannot sell it. including straight from my herp vets mouth. he tried to sell me reptile relief in place.

sure they could be carrying it. but it doesn't change the fact that its not an approved pesticide for use in Canada.

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Originally Posted by JeffJ

every place i go to say they wont carry it because its not legally approved for use on pets in Canada, there fore the cannot sell it. including straight from my herp vets mouth. he tried to sell me reptile relief in place.

sure they could be carrying it. but it doesn't change the fact that its not an approved pesticide for use in Canada.

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Why is it that a major chain retailer like Big Al's sells it? As well as every reptile shop in Ontario I've ever visited...
Not to mention, several people at the ontario reptile expo have several cans for sale at almost every show I go to

It baffles me because I have two cans sitting on the shelf beside me and both of them were purchased in Canada; One just last month. As well, a few friends of mine purchased some PAM last week.

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Originally Posted by Pandora

Why is it that a major chain retailer like Big Al's sells it? As well as every reptile shop in Ontario I've ever visited...
Not to mention, several people at the ontario reptile expo have several cans for sale at almost every show I go to

It baffles me because I have two cans sitting on the shelf beside me and both of them were purchased in Canada; One just last month. As well, a few friends of mine purchased some PAM last week.

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im just going by what i was told. no need to get upset.

And as of Mar 4th 2009, Provincial Gov is setting up to announce a ban on residential use of all external pesticides. which has been in effect in my county for 2 years now. maybe this is why i have a hard time finding it and have gotten the answer i did.

can you direct me to where it is for sale on there website as it would be easier to order from there. The dont seem to carry it at Big Al's

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Originally Posted by JeffJ

every place i go to say they wont carry it because its not legally approved for use on pets in Canada, there fore the cannot sell it. including straight from my herp vets mouth. he tried to sell me reptile relief in place.

sure they could be carrying it. but it doesn't change the fact that its not an approved pesticide for use in Canada.

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I was curious if you knew the actual wording on the ban, since PAM is not actually used on the pet at all.

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Originally Posted by JeffJ

im just going by what i was told. no need to get upset.

And as of Mar 4th 2009, Provincial Gov is setting up to announce a ban on residential use of all external pesticides. which has been in effect in my county for 2 years now. maybe this is why i have a hard time finding it and have gotten the answer i did.

can you direct me to where it is for sale on there website as it would be easier to order from there. The dont seem to carry it at Big Al's

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I know I get pciky from time to time, but so does government. Maybe I am a little confused by the above statement. What is the definition of external? If that is the actual verbage, it was poorly written, and porrly written legislation is always up for clarification (i.e. "loop holes" will exist).

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Originally Posted by muddoc

I was curious if you knew the actual wording on the ban, since PAM is not actually used on the pet at all.



I know I get pciky from time to time, but so does government. Maybe I am a little confused by the above statement. What is the definition of external? If that is the actual verbage, it was poorly written, and porrly written legislation is always up for clarification (i.e. "loop holes" will exist).

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any public pesticide use (law pesticide. weed pesticide for example) except that of which is required for agricultural use has been banned in the province of ontario since april 22nd 09. they bill was presented on april 4th 09. but this has been in effect in my county for much longer. RAID any of that stuff your not supposed to use outside any more.


as for pam i was told by my herp vet that he could not sell me any because it wasn't approved for use in Canada because it contains a neural toxin. there for could not be used on or for pet use. like i said going by what i was told. and also havn't been able to find it locally ever. last reptile expo i went to in the GTA area also didn't have any there. so i asumed what i was told to be accurate. if im wrong thats cool just means i SHOULD be able to find a closer and cheaper source then my previous one. i welcome some one to point me in the direction.

also, @ Pandora Big Al's does not carry PAM according to there online store and catalog.

That's cool. It sounds more clear now, and that there aren't any loop holes in it. I was just trying to help if possible.

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Originally Posted by muddoc

That's cool. It sounds more clear now, and that there aren't any loop holes in it. I was just trying to help if possible.

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not unless your a farmer and you can prove it. the weeds stay on ur lawn and u cant spray them pesky bees.

Now, what you may want to try would be some type of Lice Bedding spray. The only down side to that I see, is that in Canada, it may be a prescription only product. It technically is a pesticide, but is used for human treatments. The Lice spray / PAM debate has been gone over numerous times, and most agree that it is not as effective or safe, but sometimes drastic circumstances call for drastic measures.

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Originally Posted by muddoc

Now, what you may want to try would be some type of Lice Bedding spray. The only down side to that I see, is that in Canada, it may be a prescription only product. It technically is a pesticide, but is used for human treatments. The Lice spray / PAM debate has been gone over numerous times, and most agree that it is not as effective or safe, but sometimes drastic circumstances call for drastic measures.

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first thing i always do is soak the snake when i find mites. thats step one regardless of what you use to kill them. that provides almost immediate relief for the animal.

I'm not going to say anything that goes against the TOS of bp.net but just let me say this:

i live in NY state at the moment and have for the last 4 years.

i have a can of PAM.

i did not bring the can with me from PA (where i'm originally from).

Well upon further research P-A-M doesn't have the Pest Management Regulatory Agency (PMRA) of Health Canada through the Pest Control Products Act. seal of approval on the can so technically. unless my can is out dated its not approved for sale in Canada.

which explains why no online pet stores list the product that i can find. With out this seal of approval it means it has not been reviewed by the Pest Management Regulatory Agency and is not supposed to be sold in Canada. but again my can could be old or something.

"Registration will be granted if the pesticide's safety and value for its proposed use are found to be acceptable. With registration, the manufacturer must ensure that specific guidelines and information appear on the product's label. "

http://pestcontrolcanada.com/Pestici...pesticides.htm so i don't know :S

the active ingredient in PAM "permethrin" is also on the class 9 pesticide ban list for Ontario, Canada.

Port Credit Pets, Pet Mart, and Big Al's on Dundas (all in Mississauga) sell PAM. As well, vendors at the Ontario Reptile Expo sell them from what I've seen.
BTW, I wasn't getting upset with you. I just didn't understand how it wasn't legal for sale in Canada if I've seen it everywhere. I know pesticides are illegal in Ontario now, I just wasn't aware it should affect something like PAM

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Originally Posted by Pandora

Port Credit Pets, Pet Mart, and Big Al's on Dundas (all in Mississauga) sell PAM. As well, vendors at the Ontario Reptile Expo sell them from what I've seen.
BTW, I wasn't getting upset with you. I just didn't understand how it wasn't legal for sale in Canada if I've seen it everywhere. I know pesticides are illegal in Ontario now, I just wasn't aware it should affect something like PAM

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well the active ingredient in pam is classified as a prohibited pesticide. so i dont know :( i emailed big als as i have ordered other stuff from them and they told me that they did not think they sold it in Canada and they were not aware if it was in fact legal at this point in time and asked me to contact a store directly. however, the stores don't ship i think. im not sure. next time im in your neck of the woods im stopping at big al's and buying a few cans if they have it. cuz shipping it over the boarder sucked large.

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Originally Posted by JeffJ

well the active ingredient in pam is classified as a prohibited pesticide. so i dont know :( i emailed big als as i have ordered other stuff from them and they told me that they did not think they sold it in Canada and they were not aware if it was in fact legal at this point in time and asked me to contact a store directly. however, the stores don't ship i think. im not sure. next time im in your neck of the woods im stopping at big al's and buying a few cans if they have it. cuz shipping it over the boarder sucked large.

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I can always send you some if you need it, just let me know; shipping should be cheap from here. I go to those stores on a regular basis. Or, if you're hitting up the expo on the 14th, grab some.

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Originally Posted by Pandora

I can always send you some if you need it, just let me know; shipping should be cheap from here. I go to those stores on a regular basis. Or, if you're hitting up the expo on the 14th, grab some.

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not sure if im hitting the expo yet. i always seem to spend all my money when i go to those things :P

thanks for the offer if i don't make it that way ill probably take you up on it. and of course make it worth your while. :)

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Originally Posted by Pandora

I can always send you some if you need it, just let me know; shipping should be cheap from here. I go to those stores on a regular basis. Or, if you're hitting up the expo on the 14th, grab some.

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It's just my advice, but if you guys are going to engage in potentially illeagal acts, you may not want to air them in public. I personally don't care, but I don't think it is wise.

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Originally Posted by muddoc

It's just my advice, but if you guys are going to engage in potentially illeagal acts, you may not want to air them in public. I personally don't care, but I don't think it is wise.

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it may not be illegal if its not used as a pesticide out side in public, and if infact its legal for sale in canada (PMRA aprroved). which appears i may be incorrect in the information that i have gotten that its illegal. im trying to figure out more info on this. the arrangement for her to send me some is strictly for geographical reasons, not because im trying to thwart the laws on this. if it is infact illegal.

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Originally Posted by JeffJ

it may not be illegal if its not used as a pesticide out side in public, and if infact its legal for sale in canada (PMRA aprroved). which appears i may be incorrect in the information that i have gotten that its illegal. im trying to figure out more info on this. the arrangement for her to send me some is strictly for geographical reasons, not because im trying to thwart the laws on this. if it is infact illegal.

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Since the legality of the product is in question, I would assume that shipping illeagal items within the country, or even exporting them would be illeagal. Since I am not from Canada, and don't know the laws very well, I will keep my mouth shut from here on out.

My apologies for anyone that took offense,

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Originally Posted by muddoc

Since the legality of the product is in question, I would assume that shipping illeagal items within the country, or even exporting them would be illeagal. Since I am not from Canada, and don't know the laws very well, I will keep my mouth shut from here on out.

My apologies for anyone that took offense,

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nah no offense taken no worries. just my discussion here is based on the assumption i can obtain it in canada legally. if i cant then nothing ive said in relation to having pandora ship me some is not going to happen.

This is what I use.... Make sure to read the label.

http://www.drugstore.com/products/pr...ELAID=61273495

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Originally Posted by MarkS

This is what I use.... Make sure to read the label.

http://www.drugstore.com/products/pr...ELAID=61273495

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The instructions for PAM are the same. Thanks Mark, I use the same thing, but from Wal Mart, different brand. In Fact there 17 Brands all from the same manufacturer.

thanks all that pm'd me with things to use. i called are vet to see what they recommend since they are a 100% holistic vet. the head vet that owns the place got on the phone with me and told me what they use when a reptile comes in with mites. well thanks to her the snake is not mite free. And for all that would like to know what it is we used betadine solution mixed about and oz to a gallon of water till the water is a light tea color. 5 to 10 min in the water and the mites and eggs are gone. all i can say it i am very thank full i do the 90 day qt on all new snakes this guy was a rescue he has been here for a little over a month and last weekend mites on him guess the eggs hatched.

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Originally Posted by XGetSome

The instructions for PAM are the same. Thanks Mark, I use the same thing, but from Wal Mart, different brand. In Fact there 17 Brands all from the same manufacturer.

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Nowhere on my can of PAM are there instructions for applying to clothing, nets and tents? :confuzd:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Nowhere on my can of PAM are there instructions for applying to clothing, nets and tents? :confuzd:

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i wouldn't use it on my clothing it smells horrid. i do spray the carpet around my viv's tho if i suspect mites.

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Originally Posted by JeffJ

i wouldn't use it on my clothing it smells horrid. i do spray the carpet around my viv's tho if i suspect mites.

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I was being facetious, since he said the instructions on that link were the same as on PAM - they aren't. Nothing on those instructions about the treatment of reptile mites and how to properly use it for that purpose was my point.

I don't plan to use PAM on my clothes, although I was seriously considering zapping it on the mosquito that got in the house and was annoying the crap out of me last night!

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Originally Posted by rabernet

I was being facetious, since he said the instructions on that link were the same as on PAM - they aren't. Nothing on those instructions about the treatment of reptile mites and how to properly use it for that purpose was my point.

I don't plan to use PAM on my clothes, although I was seriously considering zapping it on the mosquito that got in the house and was annoying the crap out of me last night!

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lol it is the season for mosquitoes! i hate them as well.... dont you hate that single bugger that gets through the screen some how and buzzes in your ear at 3 am? :taz::taz:

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Originally Posted by JeffJ

lol it is the season for mosquitoes! i hate them as well.... dont you hate that single bugger that gets through the screen some how and buzzes in your ear at 3 am? :taz::taz:

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LOL - for some reason, he didn't follow me to the bedroom - he just hung out in the living room with the other mammals (dog, cats, rats). Thing's going to live to be 100 at this rate!:mad:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

LOL - for some reason, he didn't follow me to the bedroom - he just hung out in the living room with the other mammals (dog, cats, rats). Thing's going to live to be 100 at this rate!:mad:

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if u catch it, keep it in a jar lol. new pet... if it lives to 100 then damn id be amazed, whats the life span on them.... a few weeks?

only a few hours in my house my kitten loves to eat anything that moves.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Nowhere on my can of PAM are there instructions for applying to clothing, nets and tents? :confuzd:

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Actually it seems you take this too personal. When I join a PAM thread I always see you jump all over the peole, I even mentioned to my girlfriend I shouldnt join thse threads because peole like you jump all over people who dont swear by PAM, Ironically I personally named you as the one that would attack me, because I've seen it in many others threads. And you read that post wrong. I pm'd him with the instructions how to use it. I was telling him he needs to read the instructions off a can of PAM.

I do have to say this, just because somebody doesnt recommend the same things as you do, theres no reason to attack people. I was allready told in this thread I was stupid (I'm not 12 and I'm more mature then to waste my time replying to that person), your opinions mean a lot (Yes Robin that includes you, I've always respected all of the oeoples opinions on this board).
But sometimes, somebody isnt going to share your opinions, you should respect that.

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Originally Posted by XGetSome

Actually it seems you take this too personal. When I join a PAM thread I always see you jump all over the peole, I even mentioned to my girlfriend I shouldnt join thse threads because peole like you jump all over people who dont swear by PAM, Ironically I personally named you as the one that would attack me, because I've seen it in many others threads. And you read that post wrong. I pm'd him with the instructions how to use it. I was telling him he needs to read the instructions off a can of PAM.

I do have to say this, just because somebody doesnt recommend the same things as you do, theres no reason to attack people. I was allready told in this thread I was stupid (I'm not 12 and I'm more mature then to waste my time replying to that person), your opinions mean a lot (Yes Robin that includes you, I've always respected all of the oeoples opinions on this board).
But sometimes, somebody isnt going to share your opinions, you should respect that.

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but Mark link'd to repel thats clearly a bug repellent that has instructions for spraying on your clothing/gear. and in the same breath you thank him and say the instructions are the same as pam. i read that the same way she did. what exactly did you mean by that statement then?

I just explained it in the post that you quoted, First paragraph, last sentence.:gj:

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Originally Posted by JeffJ

but Mark link'd to repel thats clearly a bug repellent that has instructions for spraying on your clothing/gear. and in the same breath you thank him and say the instructions are the same as pam. i read that the same way she did. what exactly did you mean by that statement then?

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Originally Posted by XGetSome

Actually it seems you take this too personal. When I join a PAM thread I always see you jump all over the peole, I even mentioned to my girlfriend I shouldnt join thse threads because peole like you jump all over people who dont swear by PAM, Ironically I personally named you as the one that would attack me, because I've seen it in many others threads. And you read that post wrong. I pm'd him with the instructions how to use it. I was telling him he needs to read the instructions off a can of PAM.

I do have to say this, just because somebody doesnt recommend the same things as you do, theres no reason to attack people. I was allready told in this thread I was stupid (I'm not 12 and I'm more mature then to waste my time replying to that person), your opinions mean a lot (Yes Robin that includes you, I've always respected all of the oeoples opinions on this board).
But sometimes, somebody isnt going to share your opinions, you should respect that.

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I'm terribly sorry, this is all my fault I'm afraid. What I should have said (and actually meant to say) was to read the list of ingredients, not the directions. I think you'll find that it's very similar. My apologies for causing any confusion. Chalk it up to yet another senior moment. :rolleye2::rolleye2:

Mark

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Originally Posted by XGetSome

I just explained it in the post that you quoted, First paragraph, last sentence.:gj:

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ummm ok? then you need to word it correctly. for example "Just like on repel you must read the instruction on pam." what did you expect people like my self to get from your paragraph when you word it like that and u quote mark's suggestion of rapel?

The instructions for PAM are the same. wut? for rapel? since when is rapel recommended for veterinary use. or wait does pam go on my clothing? see the confusion.

its like saying me "hey i drive a Honda, Read the manual"

and then you say "yah jeff, Ford's manual is the same."

not very clear

and then you complain about her ragging on you in this thread, which i dont even think she was doing. it was a pretty straigh forwards non condescending comment in regards to what she gathered from your post given the crappy context you put it in.

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Nowhere on my can of PAM are there instructions for applying to clothing, nets and tents?

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how is that taking things to personal. i mean if she has done it some where els in this thread then atleas quote the right comment so i can understand what your trying ot talk about at this point because so far its not working out lol

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Originally Posted by XGetSome

The instructions for PAM are the same. Thanks Mark, I use the same thing, but from Wal Mart, different brand. In Fact there 17 Brands all from the same manufacturer.

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Originally Posted by MarkS

I'm terribly sorry, this is all my fault I'm afraid. What I should have said (and actually meant to say) was to read the list of ingredients, not the directions. I think you'll find that it's very similar. My apologies for causing any confusion. Chalk it up to yet another senior moment. :rolleye2::rolleye2:

Mark

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nah there is no confusion until some one stated the instructions for pam were the same lol

is the active ingredient in rapel the same? if so this could be interesting to try if there are no other toxins in it that can be harmful after the fact.

Why did the EPA make it illegal in only New York? It isn't illegal here in GA. Fortunately I've only had to use it once (yeah it's that darn good). I know an old school recipe that I was told to use on my mite problem. I "attempted" it but I was a idiot and bought the wrong supplies. I'll look up what the ingredients were and post them here.

I clarified it, drag the previous comment through the mud after its been clarified. Have fun, I dont play in the mud anymore. Go on and talk about your Honda and Fords, I dont drive either I have a Toyota, and a Chevy.

I have read Posts that are years old, and time and time again, people who have used anything other then PAM or sworn to be witches. The same people time and time again come in and condemn them.

Off Topic, EPA doesnt approve PAM in New York, what do you recomend to the people in New York who want to buy PAM? Well, Many people have posted a product (in this thread even) that can be found in New York, and Ive personally used it for many years.

My Career is a Shift Supervisor in a chemical plant, I deal with Hundreds yes literally Hundreds of MSDS's. I have dealt with EPA on numerous occasions. I am on a Fire Brigade, and Hazmat rescue team. I deal with Hundreds of Thousands of gallons of Hazardous Chemicals(Yes Hundreds of thousands).

Dont attempt to treat me as uneducated. I will tell you my fingers type faster then my head sometimes. I have many many friends in the Local Herp Society that use Equate not PAM, I have dealt with reptiles for 25+ years, probably 30 years.

I have been using Equate BEFORE PAM was marketed.

Coulston Products registered its product (PAM) with EPA in 1989 for a pesticide, then in 2001 PAM was marketed and they use Coulstons product



Registered Uses in the U.S. for Cic residual pressurized insecticide no. v
Uses
Insecticide , Miticide

Pests
Pillbugs , Sowbugs , Centipedes , Millipedes , Scorpions , Spiders , Mites , Ticks , Grain mite , Red spider mites , Spider mites , Clover mite , Lice , Lice (eggs) , Leafminers , Bloodsucking lice , Poultry lice , Fleas , Thrips , Firebrat , Silverfish , Sawtoothed grain beetle , Granary weevil , Rice weevil , Carpet beetle , Japanese beetle , Red flour beetle , Confused flour beetle , Gnats , Blow flies , Mosquitoes , Horn fly , Face fly , House fly , Stable fly , Horse flies , Deer flies , Bed bug , Lace bugs , Whiteflies , Aphids , Bees , Wasps , Ants , Pavement ant , Hornets , Small flying moths , Angoumois grain moth , Armyworm , Indian meal moth , Clothes moths , Cockroaches , Palmettobugs , Waterbugs , Crickets

Crops and Locations
Ornamental flowering plants (foliar treatment) , African violets (foliar treatment) , Aster (foliar treatment) , Begonia (foliar treatment) , Carnation (foliar treatment) , Chrysanthemum (foliar treatment) , Dahlias (foliar treatment) , Fuchsia (foliar treatment) , Geranium (foliar treatment) , Delphinium (foliar treatment) , Marigold (foliar treatment) , Rubber plant (foliar treatment) , Snapdragon (foliar treatment) , Stocks (foliar treatment) , Zinnia (foliar treatment) , Crassula (foliar treatment) , Kentia palms (foliar treatment) , Wandering jew (foliar treatment) , Azalea (foliar treatment) , Camellia (foliar treatment) , English ivy (foliar treatment) , Euonymus (foliar treatment) , Rhododendron (foliar treatment) , Roses (foliar treatment) , Grapevines (ornamental) (foliar treatment) , Laurel (foliar treatment) , Dogwood (foliar treatment) , Dairy cattle (animal treatment) , Goats (animal treatment) , Sheep (animal treatment) , Beef cattle (animal treatment) , Hogs (animal treatment) , Pet kennels (enclosed premise treatment) , Animal quarters (enclosed premise treatment) , Pet bedding , Pet sleeping quarters , Dogs (animal treatment) , Poultry (animal treatment) , Poultry cages (enclosed premise treatment) , Poultry houses (enclosed premise treatment) , Poultry roosts (enclosed premise treatment) , Poultry nests , Horses (animal treatment) , Milk room premises , Domestic dwellings (indoor) , Clothes storage , Rugs/carpets , Food processing plants (indoor inedible) , Eating establishments (indoor inedible) , Food marketing/storage/distribution facilities (indoor inedible) , Commercial/institutional/industrial buildings (indoor inedible) , Human bedding , Mattresses , Clothes

Equate has the same LISTED ingredients. The same amount of active ingredients.

So I still use Equate, The EPA claims are all the same, except PAM is registered for use with reptiles. The chemicals are the same, ive read the manufacturers claims they are different.....and you know, they may be? But Ive been using Equate a decade before PAM was ever produced, I've seen no ill effects of the product. I made a mistake last year of buying 30 ball pythons all within a few months time, and the later snakes had mites, I had an outbreak.......Equate bedding spray solved my problem. PAM would have been 100% equally effective. They both work.

Its fine to recommend a product you believe in. Any post Ive read on a believer of anything but PAM results in comments like "theres no cure for stupidity....you can lead a horse to water" comments that was left for me earlier in this thread......well I was using this product BEFORE PAM was invented, its worked for 15 years for me...why should I switch?
If I was 100% set on prouct, and an adult. I would recommend my product and run along, I wouldnt call names, throw insults, and pretend I am on a high horse because 90% of rest of the people on this thread agree.

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Originally Posted by JeffJ

ummm ok? then you need to word it correctly. for example "Just like on repel you must read the instruction on pam." what did you expect people like my self to get from your paragraph when you word it like that and u quote mark's suggestion of rapel?

The instructions for PAM are the same. wut? for rapel? since when is rapel recommended for veterinary use. or wait does pam go on my clothing? see the confusion.

its like saying me "hey i drive a Honda, Read the manual"

and then you say "yah jeff, Ford's manual is the same."

not very clear

and then you complain about her ragging on you in this thread, which i dont even think she was doing. it was a pretty straigh forwards non condescending comment in regards to what she gathered from your post given the crappy context you put it in.




how is that taking things to personal. i mean if she has done it some where els in this thread then atleas quote the right comment so i can understand what your trying ot talk about at this point because so far its not working out lol

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Originally Posted by JeffJ

nah there is no confusion until some one stated the instructions for pam were the same lol

is the active ingredient in rapel the same? if so this could be interesting to try if there are no other toxins in it that can be harmful after the fact.

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The major ingredient in Prevent-A-Mite is permethrin, I'm trying to confirm the home-made solution's ingredients, it's extremely simple only 2 drops of permethrin and water but I'm confirming what the Permethrin comes from.

If permethrin is illegal in NY then you're out of luck for my solution.

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Originally Posted by XGetSome

Actually it seems you take this too personal. When I join a PAM thread I always see you jump all over the peole, I even mentioned to my girlfriend I shouldnt join thse threads because peole like you jump all over people who dont swear by PAM, Ironically I personally named you as the one that would attack me, because I've seen it in many others threads. And you read that post wrong. I pm'd him with the instructions how to use it. I was telling him he needs to read the instructions off a can of PAM.

I do have to say this, just because somebody doesnt recommend the same things as you do, theres no reason to attack people. I was allready told in this thread I was stupid (I'm not 12 and I'm more mature then to waste my time replying to that person), your opinions mean a lot (Yes Robin that includes you, I've always respected all of the oeoples opinions on this board).
But sometimes, somebody isnt going to share your opinions, you should respect that.

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I'm not sure how you perceived that as an attack? My apologies if you took it that way.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

I'm not sure how you perceived that as an attack? My apologies if you took it that way.

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Actually my apologies to you, Ive just come to learn that If I wanna join a thread debating PAM, I need to be defensive. Ive read posts similar to this fot years....and the non believers get ttacked to the threads dead....
Knowing this, I probably shouldnt have joined this thread :gj:.

I re read my statement, and it wasnt clear so your post wasnt out of order. However mine was. My applogies:please:.

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Originally Posted by XGetSome

I clarified it, drag the previous comment through the mud after its been clarified. Have fun, I dont play in the mud anymore. Go on and talk about your Honda and Fords, I dont drive either I have a Toyota, and a Chevy.

I have read Posts that are years old, and time and time again, people who have used anything other then PAM or sworn to be witches. The same people time and time again come in and condemn them.

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right you don't play in the mud, but yet you admit to throwing rabernets commits from past threads in her face now for no real reason. why would u bother. especially since the lil dig you took at her the point you were trying to make made no sense because she wasn't even making it personal in this thread. your all over the place man. hence why i said atleast quote her comment that inspired you to go off on your spiel which made no apparent sense to me at the given time.

this isn't really an issue, i mean we are all good people here entitled to our own opinions, except it irritates me that you have the audacity to call some one out in a demeaning post about "people like her" that isn't even "taking things personal" mean while your inability to put things in a well constructed context is what caused the confusion in the first place. Yes you clarified it now, but after you felt the need to complain about rabernets comment, which was based upon your now "clarified" comment.

so in an essence, her comment which was inspired by you unclear post, made you feel the need to dig up past issues you have had with her and throw them in her face, talk a lil demeaning. classify her as some sort of PAM warrior which i dunno she may be but it wasn't in this thread. Which in turn irritated me, so you "clarified" to try and make it look like her comment was not called for... (still dont really know why you may feel this way seriously) then when i pointed out the fact that you comments in THIS thread towards her approach to the issue were uncalled for and really were un needed towards her since the issue u have with her opinions pertains to other threads. you call it childish (playing in the mud) which is really all your doing... wouldn't an adult just leave things in the past? i talk to people on here daily that i have disagreed with. so, where shall we take this form here?

So, why dont we try to stop the bats from crudding up the future shall we?

I think that the best thing is that everyone use what they are comfortable using to treat mites. If you feel comfortable using equate fantastic, if you like PAM or BK good on ya. Everybody finds different things that works differently for them. I can't speak with any authority on how well Equate works versus Pam because I have not had to deal with enough mites to be able to give a first had experience on the matter.

Xgetsome, thank you for your first hand knowledge of how well equate works versus PAM. I'm glad that someone who has had to treat enough snakes for mites on more than one or two times was able to say with such certainty that it works the same.. that's great it means I may have a substitute in a pinch.. again thank you.