Flexwatt

I will be building my rack very soon and it will be in a book shelf style with 4 32 quart tubs on each level. The flexwatt will be connected to a Helix.

my question is could you cut 11" flexwatt in half? lengthwise not widthwise? Because i think that 11" would be covering too much of the tubs and i could use 5" and 6" strips to heat up each row.


If not then do you think the 4" flexwatt would be sufficent for each row of tubs?

I'm going to go on a stretch and say no. From what I have learned, flexwatt is made so that the heat travels along the metal sides and is spread out by the mid-black lined area. I was told, when cutting it to avoid the black lines and try to cut the clear area.
I'm guessing, it would not work nearly as well cut that way. I think 4" flexwatt would do fine. It heats up my 32qts very well.

you cannot cut it lengthwise!!! you will ruin it.

go with the 4"

basically,,the black inside,connect the circut to heat it up,,so wont work,i think big apple,or bean farm,or somebody has 5 inch or 6 inch,,but i only seen it on one site

you could just cut a 11" in half,ending up with two pieces 11" wide and 6" long.most people think you have to cut in 1 ft. pieces,that serrated line is just a guide,you can cut width wise anywhere you want.

to the best of my knowledge flexwatt comes 3",4",11" 17" and 22" widths.

as far as what would work best that depends on type of rack,room temps etc.if in doubt it's best to be a bit over powered rather than under.

in my blanket box enclosed melamine racks with a room temp of 75-78 i use 3" 6 watt flexwatt and it works like a charm,BTW i would not use the 3" 10 watt as unregulated it can get upwards of 150 degrees.hope this helps,have fun!

edit:ALWAYS insulate the cut end of flexwatt.

11" isn't going to be to much for 32qt we use 11"
Mike.

I am going to be the bad guy here as many people are going to disagree with the following statements, but the risk is real and people should be aware of any safety issues regarding any product they are using. I also have to blame Lucas for asking me to put my 2cents in.

Flexwatt is a potentially unsafe product, is not UL or CE listed to use as we do in the reptile industry, has a long track record of causing fires, went bankrupt years ago due to law suits that resulted from some of these fires as well as posing some other risks as well.

I received a letter from Calorique on 05/21/06, where they were trying to get us to purchase their product. In the letter it states and I quote “Not to be used on plastic or wood based terrariums”. This shows they are well aware of the risks involving their product. Despite this, they have no problem selling it in large volumes to unsuspecting users in our industry.

There is story after story about this product shorting out, melting cages and causing fires. No matter how small the risk, I can’t believe anyone would want to come home someday to find their animals dead, or worse, some smoldering embers that are all that is left of their house.

No matter how the product is regulated, one can’t eliminate this risk. Back in Jan of this year, I was talking with what is my opinion, one the most respected breeders in our industry. He told me that he recently had a length of flexwatt under several cages that malfunctioned and melted the bottom of all of these cages. As bad as that was, it could have been a lot worse.

We don’t sell undertank heaters or have any product that is appropriate for a rack or similar setup, so I have no bias regarding this product for this use just to sell mine.

Unfortunately, there are few alternatives, and there is no question that flexwatt is inexpensive and easy to use. There are other brands of undertank heaters and heat mats that are UL and CE listed for this purpose, but they have limited configurations and can’t be modified. The methods I recommend are UL listed heating pads, if they are suitable and UL & CE listed heat cables. I know that they are harder to install and can’t be used in every case, but I would rather go through the extra trouble and at least be able to sleep at night or leave my house without constantly worrying.

Like everything else, I have heard many people say they have been using the product for years without any problems, but it only takes one time to wish that a safer alternative had been chosen. There is no way to know if the product is going to fail or when. Not every piece is going to have a problem, but every year we get the calls and hear the stories.

Lucas asked me to touch on why flexwatt is not a suitable heating element for a radiant panel. The first reason is because of the risks stated in this post. Even if the product didn’t present these risks, a laminated heating element is not designed to operate at the temperatures required to create an efficient radiant panel, so will be fairly limited in the performance it can offer. This is basically what Big Apple sells as a radiant panel. It is nothing more than an undertank heater that they put a spin on trying to market it as an overhead radiant panel. Most people that have tried these will attest that they do not work very well.

Any electrical device can be a hazard. Unless it has the approval of UL, ULC or CE, there is no guarantee that it will not cause a problem. Look at any electrical device or appliance you own and try to find something that is not UL listed and ask yourself why?

Another issue is companies that imply that a product is UL listed as they state that a component is UL listed. This is like saying one goes to Radio Shack and buys a UL listed transformer and then builds an entire TV set with this one UL listed item, then implies that the finished product is safe as some of the components are UL certified. A UL listed component means nothing, only if the product is UL certified for a specific purpose, can one be sure that it is safe to use for that purpose. Fortunately, UL is starting to go after these companies for making such misleading claims.

Bob Pound
Pro Products

i gotta agree wit bob

Until something cost effective and safer makes it to the market, most of us are limited to flexwatt or heating cable. Used properly with a thermostat, risk should be minimal. UTHs will fail, too. Nothing is 100% safe.

To the OP, don't cut the 11". 4" flexwatt will work just fine for those size tubs. I use it for all mine, from 12qts all the way up to 41qts with no problems at all.

flexwatt can not be cu in the way you want the metal end are what causes the current po heat the black ink( special ink ) to make heat it can be cut in smaller than 1 ft lenghts but you need ot tape the black ink part up. I use he 11 ( in 3 ft lenghts) to heat my ( just shy of 4 ft wide rack wit h34 /40 qt tubs with no problem ( once I got a proper tstat) you can run a dimmer as a secondary control if you think it will heat up too fast ( after the tstat plug ) andjust cause it ot take longer to get ot the shut off temp.:D this will help limit how fast it heats up.

I am about ot order another large flexwatt order andi don't use the connectors they show i solder my connection and then tape them well with electrical tape. I set each shelf flexwatt as individal plug so if I happen to empty a shlf I can unplug it and help save some juice lol...

My snakes have been very happy and safer since i swapped to the tstat control ( no more close calles with meltdowns.from dimmer control giving out )


and yes flexwatt can cause a fire. I got luck when m,y dimmer control went south it allowed he 3 inch flexwatt to go wide open and it burnt the (scapr ) pieces of lamonate flooring . I only found out when my niece was helping me move the cage it was used to heat and pointed out the burnt marks and the smell of it.. I had spacer bewteen the floor and the cage but I guess they were not big enough to prevent the no air movement or the failure of the dimmer ( it went wide open and then brunt out ( I found the dimmer control very hot to the touch and had unplugged it and I only had 80 watts being used ( and the dimmer was reated 300) so it was just my luck lol

that might ove been what prevented a fire ( or th fact the printed ink part was all broken were the plastic melted.

but I never had this problem with my 11" wide stripes ( beats a couple doors down )

below are the 2 pieces ( wire up parallel)





http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/s...attfail002.jpg

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/s...attfail001.jpg

yikes...dat could have been bad...

thanks again for chiming in bob.

the main point i wanted bob to make is that it is never ok to fashion a heat pannel out of flex watt. this is probably the best way to make a fire with this stuff....other than letting it run wide open for a while.

lolz i got an infraction already....idk why u guys freak out over little comments like that....and don't tell me it's because they could shut your forum down...cuz they cant'..

This article from the BeanFarm might be of use to you. It mentions cutting. Good luck!

http://www.beanfarm.com/heating/flexwatt_userinfo.pdf

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Originally Posted by Shin86

lolz i got an infraction already....idk why u guys freak out over little comments like that....and don't tell me it's because they could shut your forum down...cuz they cant'..

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What are you talking about? The owners/administrators (names in red) can shut down the forum at any time. But I'm not sure how that's related to infractions? We have no interest in shutting down our forums, why would we?

You get infractions for violating the TOS that you agreed to when you joined the forum. Infraction discussions can take place in Quarantine (if you need access, contact an administrator) or by PM to a staff member.

no discussion, jus wondering why everyone's such wankers on here.....grow up, we aren't all in 4th grade here

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Originally Posted by Shin86

no discussion, jus wondering why everyone's such wankers on here.....grow up, we aren't all in 4th grade here

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I would highly recommend that you take your own advice and not lower yourself to name calling.

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Originally Posted by Shin86

no discussion, jus wondering why everyone's such wankers on here.....grow up, we aren't all in 4th grade here

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Nobody here is a wanker, this forum just happens to maintain higher standards and thus a greater respect and a friendlier community. That's why this forum manages to stay on topic 98% of the time, this isn't a place to disrespect and flame post after post after post.

OP...I cut some of my sheets t 10"x11" wide. Works fine.

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Originally Posted by Shin86

no discussion, jus wondering why everyone's such wankers on here.....grow up, we aren't all in 4th grade here

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i suggest you grow up and take you discussion into PMs with a moderator or admin. no need to throw our enitre community under the bus b/c you slipped up.

it was just a warning anyway!!

i'm just saying....as an admin of a much larger forum board, the rules r a little ridiculous...not tryin to start beef..just a little curious as to how it's being run

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Originally Posted by Shin86

i'm just saying....as an admin of a much larger forum board, the rules r a little ridiculous...not tryin to start beef..just a little curious as to how it's being run

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The Terms of Service posted in Site Info will answer all the questions that you have about how this forum is run. Cheers!

thnx bro....glad we're friends agian...;)

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Originally Posted by Shin86

thnx bro....glad we're friends agian...;)

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you mean sister

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Originally Posted by JeffJ

you mean sister

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:gj:

ohhhhhhhhhhh gotcha :)

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Originally Posted by Shadera

Until something cost effective and safer makes it to the market, most of us are limited to flexwatt or heating cable. Used properly with a thermostat, risk should be minimal. UTHs will fail, too. Nothing is 100% safe.

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My sentiments exactly.

Anyone can obviously use what he or she wants. My only reason I replied on this thread was someone asked me to provide some factual information (specifically about using flexwatt as a radiant panel element) that most people in our industry are not aware of. Although using this element in a radiant panel is definitely asking for problems, the overall risks associated with this element are not well known.

As I said in my post, unfortunately there are very few alternatives available, especially for a rack or similar setup. Does this mean that one should completely throw caution to the wind and use something that can potentially burn their house down? Where is the logic in that?

Using a thermostat or dimmer will not eliminate the risk of the product failing as it can fail regardless of the amount of power being applied, so even if it is not operating at full power, the risk is still there. It’s all about resistance and overheating and the two “feeding” on each other causing the material to short, the same problem another product in our industry has.

Although harder to install, heat cables can be used in most applications and do not pose the same risk. Take a look, they are UL listed for the use, where the other is not.

At the present time, there is no great alternative, but flexwatt shouldn't be given a rave endorsement either. How do those of you feel about any manufacture that knows (proven over time) that their product poses a risk of shorting out and possibly causing a fire when operated in the manner our industry does. On one hand they sell the product and like the money they make from us, but then place all kinds of disclaimers to distance themselves when a problem occurs.

Somewhere in this thread was a post to a link on the Bean Farm. Read the beginning of the instruction sheet and look at how strong a disclaimer they clearly spell out should the product fail. Now find any electrical appliance, approved heater, TV and so on and see if these products have to place such a disclaimer with their products.

I didn't reply to this thread to try and recommend a specific product, because unfortunately, there are no great products that are designed for this use. On the other hand, if I knew that a product I was using, or was thinking of using, had the potential and track record to be potentially catastrophic, I would certainly try to find an alternative that wouldn't create the same risk, no matter how small.

One last example of an actual situation, I received a call a while back from a woman in CA. She stated that she came home from work one day to find an 18” hole in the bottom of her cage, the carpet and the sub floor of her home. She told me that she had “Thanked the Lord” that the fire extinguished itself and didn’t continue to burn her entire house. This is not a unique experience and just one of many instances where this product has failed, in our industry as well as many others.

Again, anyone can use whatever they want, but despite any argument, the facts regarding this product can’t be disputed. I for one have always opted for a heat cable over any other unapproved element or heating device in my racks.

Bob Pound
Pro Products