Oversized Prey Leading to Off Feed?

So 2 and a half weeks ago I tried to move my BP up from Medium rats to large rats. I don't have a scale so I'm not sure on her weight, but the medium rats looked too small for her. Anyways, it took her like 20 minutes to get the rat down, but she did it. I didn't want her to have to work so hard to get the rat down, so the following week I went back to Mediums. First of all, when I feed her I always make sure to take her out for a few minutes beforehand to wake her up and get her ready. I gave her about 20 minutes to eat the rat before taking it out. Not wanting to give up, I kept the rat and tried again the following night. Unfortunately, after showing a bit of interest and checking out the rat, she quickly lost interest and refused to eat. I simply assumed she was still full from the previously large feeding, so I gave her another week and a half before I tried again. A week and a half was up tonight, and I again tried to feed her and again after showing interest at first she gave up, just like before.


Is it possible that she will go off feed for long from this? She was eating great before, wasn't having any issues at all.

She is in a 55 gallon long tank with two identical hides and a large water dish. I have a heat lamp above half of the tank that consistently keeps the temperature on the warm side at around 91 degrees.

I know that it is not uncommon for bps to go off feed, but has anyone had any experience with it being for this reason?

Just looking for a bit of feedback, hopefully I gave enough information for solid replies, thanks!

Same thing happened to me when I went up to medium rats. She hasn't eaten for three weeks now. I'll be trying again Friday.

It happens though. Make sure everything is correct with the husbandry. 55g seems a bit big, even for a snake that size. Could you post some pics of your setup so we can see if anything's up?

Just keep offering food on a weekly schedule. Don't be worried unless she starts losing some serious weight.

Keep us updated!

Oftentimes, large enclosures and/or open spaces stress bp's and cause them to stop eating. Mine is in a 40g tank right now. I decided to switch her to a 20L after this next feeding attempt, because I regrettably admit that the 40 is too big.

The tank is ultimately for the bp, not me. :(

Hi,

I read a very good post from Adam at one point where he discussed the reason he only feeds small rats.

Typically I can't find it at the moment but, from memory, the gist was that it was better to use smaller prey and have a more consistent, regular eating pattern than to use large prey and run the risk of triggering a fast.

I know I am missing the reasoning behind it though. :oops:

I think it had to do with the snakes need for fuel for growth dropping off as they age. :confused:


dr del

Hi,

It is mentioned in passing in the caresheet on his site - under the feeding section.


dr del

i recently switched my baby bp to a 5 day feed cycle. she was fine past 3 feedings. well today was feeding day and she rejected it. switching back to every 7 days.

her weight: ~70.7 grams
mice hopper size: ~11 grams

her prey size should be around 7.07 grams but this is the weight of hoppers here. one size down are fuzzies which i think are too small.

thanks dr del for that informative link.

Yeah thanks Del. I know that I have a pastel that got scared of a good sized small rat and refused to eat for two weeks until I had an adult mouse left over from a feeding and just threw it in there to see if he would even eat it, and he took it with the quickness!

actually i should be feeding my baby bp fuzzies as they are 4.50 - 7.00 grams and hoppers are 8.00 - 12.00 grams. i went with hoppers because i have read numberous threads about anything less then a hopper doesn't have the proper nutrition.

(and i just bought a bag of 15 hopper mice, ugh)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eMonk

actually i should be feeding my baby bp fuzzies as they are 4.50 - 7.00 grams and hoppers are 8.00 - 12.00 grams. i went with hoppers because i have read numberous threads about anything less then a hopper doesn't have the proper nutrition.

(and i just bought a bag of 15 hopper mice, ugh)

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I don't know of any breeder that starts their babies on fuzzy mice - most all of us start them on mouse hoppers at the bare minimum. Or rat fuzzies.

Yes, for nutrition's sake, only because a mouse fuzzy is more of an appetizer for them, than a hopper would be.

Why do you believe she should be on fuzzies?

As to the OP - I don't have a single ball python in my collection that gets fed large rats, or are fed in separate feeding enclosures. I have consistently feeding animals with a wonderful growth rate by feeding large smalls, or small mediums for the adults. I also do not encounter any aggressiveness as a result of feeding in their enclosures on days that are not feeding day (ie, mistaking me for food). However, once they realize that food is coming, there's no way I'd attempt to move them - I'd surely be bitten! ;)

I do believe that most likely, the large rat triggered your current fast - that and offering on back to back days.

Hope this helps!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

I don't know of any breeder that starts their babies on fuzzy mice - most all of us start them on mouse hoppers at the bare minimum. Or rat fuzzies.

Yes, for nutrition's sake, only because a mouse fuzzy is more of an appetizer for them, than a hopper would be.

Why do you believe she should be on fuzzies?

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Because fuzzies are 4.50 - 7.00 grams.
10% of my snake's weight is 7.07 grams.
Hoppers are 8.00 - 12.00 grams.

After reading the link dr del posted, it's better to offer prey a bit smaller then the girth of your snake. these hoppers are creating that "lump" noted below.

Quote:

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Feeding
All of my ball pythons are fed once a week ... age or size doesn't matter ... Monday is feeding day at my "shop". I like to feed whatever my ball pythons will eat. Mice or rats, it doesn't matter to me as long as they are eating regularly and not losing weight. Unlike many of the larger species of pythons, I have had success feeding my ball pythons smaller sized food items ... rodents that are slightly smaller than the animals girth. I feel that feeding ball pythons too large of a prey item (one that creates a lump) will cause them to become "back up" and end up refusing food later down the road. I personally prefer to have my snakes eat more consistently ... and it's worked for me so far.

http://www.8ballpythons.com/journal/caresheet.htm

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can babies go on off feed too? mine rejected todays feeding and my husbandry is within range. nothing new or removed from enclosure. however i have recently switched her to a 5 day feed cycle instead of 7. she had no problems the past 3 feeds till now. hopfully she will contine to eat on a 7 day cycle with these hoppers.

Generally the "smaller than the girth" suggestion is for animals with a bit more maturity on them.

I happen to be very good friends with Adam, he also has this article on getting hatchlings started:

http://www.8ballpythons.com/journal/...ingseating.htm

You notice, he either offers a rat pink or a mouse hopper (which are basically equivalently sized).

I feed my hatchlings once every five days. Hatchlings up to one year old generally feed every five days without fasting for me. They may miss one feeding here or there, but because they are "hard wired" to try to grow as quickly as possible as babies (because the smaller they are, the more predators they have), refusal of food is unusual.


I'm not sure what sized enclosure you house your baby in, but my babies are in six quart tubs, which offers them more security than a larger enclosure, and I feel produces a more confident and eager feeder.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eMonk

can babies go on off feed too?

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In my experience, it's rare for a baby of your size to go off feed if everything else is correct (husbandry, properly sized housing, etc). You always have an exception to the rule, of course, but in general terms, babies are generally very eager feeders and seldom refuse to feed.

i feed my baby every 7 dayz...works fine for me