Soon to be new owner.

Hello, my name is Travis, or TraviZ if you will, I have had my eye on a bp for a few weeks now, actually it started last year but that idea died, but recently since i've moved and am more settled, It has been bugging me again to get a snake! I am just looking for some pre-setup advice before I pick the critter up. And I wanted to hear it from you professionals.
So far I have a 20 gal tank picked out, with aspen bedding, two wood hideouts, a water bowl big enough for his body to fit in(correct?) and a tree decoration somewhere in the middle and branched up for him(or her) to play on. I would like some more advice on heating and cooling for my baby to be.. I understand I should put a heat pad under the tank on one side and some light on the other side from above? what kind of light should I get? I saw lots of choices from 100-150watt bulbs and infrared that can be left on all the time? also long uvb bars that run across the whole tank? I want to get the best for my baby and money is no consideration.
is it best to use those round gauges for temperature or should I use strips like fishtanks use? do I need one on both sides of the tank to monitor temps? should the heatpad have some sort of temperature control ?
lots of questions I know, but I want to know im doing everything properly before I bring another life under my care :)

Thanks :)
-TraviZ:snake:

Thanks for doing your homework. You are off to a good start IMO. I don't use lights on mine, but under the tank heating. I also do give large bowls though apparently that's not absolutely needed. I learned that here today :)

Here ya go http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=55849
Mike.

Check out this great sticky: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=56846

It's what I honed in on when I first came! It talks about the temperature questions you have. :)

:welcome:

welcome to the site :salute:

Thanks for the compliments, Can I ask, I am still not clear on, how can I maintain humidity? I keep reading about 50% normally and 70% when they prepare to shed?

couple things:
do this right off the bat
using a substrate that holds humidity (repti bark, cypress mulch, newspaper)
sphagnum moss
spray bottle
humidifier in the room
humid hide (pretty much a hide with damp sphagnum moss, but this isn't really necessary unless all above fails)

To maintain humidity of a tank in a low humidity area ( Salt Lake City ), I "insulate" the screen lid with foil & plastic. Sphagnum moss, larger water bowl and light misting during sheds. Here's some pics of what my set up looked like before I switched to racks/tubs.


"insulation"
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...1/img00300.jpg
Sphagnum moss on a half log that he used as a tunnel to go hot to cool side
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...1/img00297.jpg

Lots of info here for temps and humidity and so much more. Welcome!

thanks for the info! this is helping alot!

I bought my tank this morning and the astro turf stuff. and reptile-bark made form douglas fir.

I also will be picking up the heating pad after work and some caves and water bowl.

two questions..

how big a water bowl should I get? A bigger one will help with humidity right?

and I am not sure still what lamps I should get for the top of the cage, what do our lovely bp's prefer? the infrared or what?

and I understand I should have two bulbs? which one should be on the hot side and which one should be on the cooler side? thanks for all your assistance so far!

:snake:

Also one last thing on my mind, should I cover the sides of the tank so he is not exposed on all four sides? how should I do this best? where the tank is setup, cna be viewed from both the living room and kitchen. Perhaps I should block off view from all sides except one?

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Originally Posted by TraviZ

Also one last thing on my mind, should I cover the sides of the tank so he is not exposed on all four sides? how should I do this best? where the tank is setup, cna be viewed from both the living room and kitchen. Perhaps I should block off view from all sides except one?

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I would love to take a picture of my painted tank, except my camera broke. I personally like using acrylic paint cuz you can put some sort of design if you add different colors...

I'm not a breeder, so I do have a tank setup (which is more expensive)...I don't have much to decorate inside the 10gal, so instead I pretty much painted an abstract mini mural on all three sides (all dark colors used) People seemed to be impressed by the artwork as well...

I do this only because, my house is well insulated already, his temperatures are right, so the foam wall is not necessary for me....

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Originally Posted by TraviZ

thanks for the info! this is helping alot!

I bought my tank this morning and the astro turf stuff. and reptile-bark made form douglas fir.

I also will be picking up the heating pad after work and some caves and water bowl.

two questions..

how big a water bowl should I get? A bigger one will help with humidity right?

and I am not sure still what lamps I should get for the top of the cage, what do our lovely bp's prefer? the infrared or what?

and I understand I should have two bulbs? which one should be on the hot side and which one should be on the cooler side? thanks for all your assistance so far!

:snake:

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by TraviZ

Also one last thing on my mind, should I cover the sides of the tank so he is not exposed on all four sides? how should I do this best? where the tank is setup, cna be viewed from both the living room and kitchen. Perhaps I should block off view from all sides except one?

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you can use any light you want really they only need it for day night cycle unless you need a topical heat source for ambient temperature. if your house never goes below 75*F i wouldn't worry about a heat source for the cool side. i use the a regular 50w basking bulb on my 30 gal tank. for my ball python. works just fine.

i have a heat pad on hot and cold side. 80*F on the cool side and 94-95*F on the hot side.

be sure to REGULATE any heat sources. this is a must. BPs don't require any supplementation light such as UV light. so don't bother with those.

use any water bowl you want. its not a big issue. u just may need to adjust the size when you figure out where your humidity is.


that reptile carpet STINKS to high heaven when its a few months old and there isnt really a way to get rid of the stank its a bacteria breeding ground. i suggest just returning it.

covering 3 of the sides is not necessary. some people do this to help picky ball pythons. yours may or may not be. if he is then covering 3 of the sides would be an idea to help it feel a lil safer and less stressed. The best suggestion is to fill his environment with lots of fake plants and other good looking clutter. the tighter and more of a mess it is the happier a ball python seems to be. dont worry about floor space per-say as its a snake it will climb in on and under what ever it wants when it wants.

Hey guys thanks! I got my buddy tonight! I have my cage all setup, My concern right now is the cold side is right around 75 degrees and my hot side is good at 90-95, it may be getting too hot with that heat pad though, it said it was adjustable from 4-24watt but i see no way to change the heat output? I should invest in a thermostat? I have a day time 75watt and a 40watt black light for night. my humidity is good at 50-55% just takes a mist or two a few times a day to keep it up :)

He has been home for about an hour now and he pretty quickly found his way up his little branch and been hanging out up top. is that ok? normal?

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Originally Posted by TraviZ

I bought my tank this morning and the astro turf stuff. and reptile-bark made form douglas fir.

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Actually, you don't want to use pine as a bedding and fir is a type of pine. If you haven't opened it yet - return it and get apsen instead. Cedars and pines can be toxic to ball pythons because of the oils in them.

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and I understand I should have two bulbs? which one should be on the hot side and which one should be on the cooler side? thanks for all your assistance so far!

:snake:

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You don't need any lamps, under tank heaters are preferable (controlled with thermostats so that they don't overheat). Ball pythons need belly heat to aid in digestion. Most people use the lamps to help supplement heating, but belly heat is preferred. Lamps tend to suck most of the humidity out of the enclosure.

Good luck with your new baby!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TraviZ

Hey guys thanks! I got my buddy tonight! I have my cage all setup, My concern right now is the cold side is right around 75 degrees and my hot side is good at 90-95, it may be getting too hot with that heat pad though, it said it was adjustable from 4-24watt but i see no way to change the heat output? I should invest in a thermostat? I have a day time 75watt and a 40watt black light for night. my humidity is good at 50-55% just takes a mist or two a few times a day to keep it up :)

He has been home for about an hour now and he pretty quickly found his way up his little branch and been hanging out up top. is that ok? normal?

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Yes, you do need a thermostat!

It's more normal for him to be inside his hide where you can't see him, but his behavior right now is normal for a snake in a new environment and testing for ways of escape until he settles in! :)

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Actually, you don't want to use pine as a bedding and fir is a type of pine. If you haven't opened it yet - return it and get apsen instead. Cedars and pines can be toxic to ball pythons because of the oils in them.



You don't need any lamps, under tank heaters are preferable (controlled with thermostats so that they don't overheat). Ball pythons need belly heat to aid in digestion. Most people use the lamps to help supplement heating, but belly heat is preferred. Lamps tend to suck most of the humidity out of the enclosure.

Good luck with your new baby!

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i'm sorry, but i think you should retract this statement as it is false

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Originally Posted by Shin86

i'm sorry, but i think you should retract this statement as it is false

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What is false? No retraction here.

http://www.ball-pythons.net/modules/...warticle&id=59

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Originally Posted by rabernet

What is false? No retraction here.

http://www.ball-pythons.net/modules/...warticle&id=59

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i agree, i dont see any false info there.
Shin86; if your referring to the lamp statement... remember that boas and pythons are nocturnal for the most part.
the only snake that has a lamp in my collection is the tree boa and thats because its nice to watch on display. it has no heat value at all.

and if your referring to the statement about pine. it is in fact toxic to all reptiles. its a well documented fact here and every where els.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

What is false? No retraction here.

http://www.ball-pythons.net/modules/...warticle&id=59

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k then...try telling this statement to the other schkibillion or so people who use fir bark....

without any negative consequences

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Originally Posted by Shin86

k then...try telling this statement to the other schkibillion or so people who use fir bark....

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What's schkibillion?

I guess you didn't choose to read the link I posted, so I'll quote it for you.

Quote:

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SUBSTRATE
Under no circumstances should you keep these animals on pine or cedar. Pine, cedar and other phenol-containing woods have toxins which can cause significant health problems in a variety of herps and other animals and should not be used. Sand, gravel, and crushed walnut are also very poor choices for ball pythons.


Your choice on substrate should be something readily available and one which lends itself to easy spot cleaning and other cage maintenance chores. You should check your enclosure daily for odors or more visible signs or waste and remove them – replacing the substrate when necessary.

Some viable options for substrate include but are not limited to:
Repti-Bark or Jungle Bark type chips
Aspen
Newspapers/Newsprint
Paper towels
Carpet (harder to maintain)
Cypress Mulch
Coconut Husk-based substrates
Care-Fresh or similar products that do not pose impaction risks

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Originally Posted by Shin86

without any negative consequences

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Please provide data and sources from "schkibillion" to support that claim.

k well i'm telling you your WRONG....and schkibillion is a made up number, considering im not a wizard and know exactly how many people use fir....which is what reptibark is.....

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Originally Posted by Shin86

k well i'm telling you your WRONG....and schkibillion is a made up number, considering im not a wizard and know exactly how many people use fir....which is what reptibark is.....

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Good luck with that! :gj:

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Originally Posted by Shin86

k well i'm telling you your WRONG....and schkibillion is a made up number, considering im not a wizard and know exactly how many people use fir....which is what reptibark is.....

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your arguing with some one who has been keeping snakes for decades owns more then i can count and breeds as well :rolleye2:

if its any ones opinion and information i trust around here rabernet IS one of the few.

you should do some light reading. this is one of the THOUSANDS of articles on the internet explaining why cedar, pine and other soft woods from that family are TOXIC to reptiles.

http://www.anapsid.org/cedar.html

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Good luck with that! :gj:

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I bought reptibark which says made of douglas fir. so im confused. maybe its treated, dried or whatever. anyways. I am going to go out today and buy this thermostat. I found my buddy went into his rockcave I gave him so thats good! no more hanging in the tree like a snake monkey! One concern, m digital thermometer with probe says the hot side this morning is 121! but not until it got that hot he came down from the tree. i touched the surface where the probe is and it feels a little warm but nothing crazy at all. In fact I bet it feels about 90 because my house is chilled at 75 right now. think my thermometer is bad? I think I am going to try to measure with another tool I have.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TraviZ

I bought reptibark which says made of douglas fir. so im confused. maybe its treated, dried or whatever. anyways. I am going to go out today and my this thermostat. I found my buddy went into his rockcave I gave him so thats good! no more hanging in the tree like a snake monkey! One concern, m digital thermometer with probe says the hot side this morning is 121! but not until it got that hot he came down from the tree. i touched the surface where the probe is and it feels a little warm but nothing crazy at all. In fact I bet it feels about 90 because my house is chilled at 75 right now. think my thermometer is bad? I think I am going to try to measure with another tool I have.

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as long as its treated (kiln dried or something of the like) then its ok.

Zilla brand is treated.

So, is Repti bark bad? A handful of people here use it, and it does say it's ok to use in the caresheet.

JeffJ, kiln drying it gets rid of the vapors?

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Originally Posted by JeffJ

your arguing with some one who has been keeping snakes for decades owns more then i can count and breeds as well :rolleye2:

if its any ones opinion and information i trust around here rabernet IS one of the few.

you should do some light reading. this is one of the THOUSANDS of articles on the internet explaining why cedar, pine and other soft woods from that family are TOXIC to reptiles.

http://www.anapsid.org/cedar.html

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Jeff, thank you! Not decades, I'm afraid, but about 5 years now! :)

k well my point is that reptibark is fir....end of story...if it was bad they wouldn't sell it...

i'm not trying to come off rude, so i'm sorry if i'm coming off like that(little hungover), plus i just like to argue with ppl ;)

Also traviZ

if it feels warm to you its too hot.

remember our body temp is about 96-98 which is already as warm as the snake should feel. (96*F) if it feels warm to you it means its beyond our body temperature which is too hot.

the thermometer isnt bad. its accurate. IF its digital :P your going to have to put your heat pad on a dimmer or a thermostat. my accu-tmep digital thermometer never goes above 99*F on my taks. and thats with 1/4" substrate. i set it a lil high because there is a few degrees of error/heat loss.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mrshawt

So, is Repti bark bad? A handful of people here use it, and it does say it's ok to use in the caresheet.

JeffJ, kiln drying it gets rid of the vapors?

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according to what i read kinl drying is a way of treating it to make it safe. (makes the toxic vavours evacuate the wood fibers.) but there is also the issue of oils that may or may not be toxic. Research is the best option.

now according to zilla Reptile bark is "treated" to make it safe and blended with eucalyptus. i don't know there methods but they claim its safe.

Duglas Fur IS part of the same soft wood family as pine and cedar so i dont know. this is why i just stick to aspen. i never have toworry whats going on with my substrate.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Jeff, thank you! Not decades, I'm afraid, but about 5 years now! :)

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haha oops im getting you confused with one of the other staff members thats older then dirt maybe :P

however i stand by my word that i trust your advice 100%. you have helped me much. and it has always been spot on advice.

Thank you for the lovely debate. I am going to stick with my reptie-bark as it claims its safe, but when its time to change out in the future, I will switch to an aspen. Does aspen hold humidity better?
Is it bad my friend likes the extra hot under his rock?
Last question, is there a difference between dimmer and thermostat and is there any generic models I can buy at a home improvement store or something? I hate to spend 50 dollars at petco on a 1000watt model when my heat pad only pulls 24watts. but if thats the only option, then ill do it asap.

no repti-bark holds humidity better....

u can pick up a dimmer at any store with a hardware section

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TraviZ

Thank you for the lovely debate. I am going to stick with my reptie-bark as it claims its safe, but when its time to change out in the future, I will switch to an aspen. Does aspen hold humidity better?
Is it bad my friend likes the extra hot under his rock?
Last question, is there a difference between dimmer and thermostat and is there any generic models I can buy at a home improvement store or something? I hate to spend 50 dollars at petco on a 1000watt model when my heat pad only pulls 24watts. but if thats the only option, then ill do it asap.

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Aspen does a great job with humidity. ive never had a bad shed using it. only when i used sand (i know bad JeffJ, BAD)

you can get a lamp dimmer that will work on a heat pad just fine at lowes, Home Depot or any other place like that. a dimmer is like what it says. it dimms a lamp, (restricts current to the device) there for making the heat pad not run as hot.

a thermostat its a device with a temperature probe that monitors the temperature and either dimms or turns the heat source on and off as needed to keep the target temperature. the lamp dimmers are about $15 and 300W it will work just fine for nay heat pad and or lamp combo. just be sure nothing over 300W or it becomes a fire hazard as your overloading the potentiometer ion the dimmer.

as for the heat under the rock. its not uncommon for it to be a lil hotter in there as the cave will gather heat. if your friend stops using the cave its because its too hot. tone it down a few more degrees. and anything over 100*F can be potentially lethal or cause irreversible brain damage to the snake.

thanks! I will think about the dimmer, another thing though, should i get a second smaller pad for the cold side, I cant get it to get above 75 naturally.. light or not.

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Originally Posted by TraviZ

thanks! I will think about the dimmer, another thing though, should i get a second smaller pad for the cold side, I cant get it to get above 75 naturally.. light or not.

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you could. it will most definitely have to be on a dimmer to maintain the lower temperature. even the smallest of heat pads unregulated will get 120-140*F

are you in a cold part of the globe or do you blast your ac? im in the temperate zone and keeping a cool side temp of 80*F is simple for me in a glass tank.
no cool side heat source/.

that reminds me.....glass or plastic?

i am in northern cali with ac set for 77, but even now, ac is off and its only 73. and my cold side sadly says 70 right now :( this is plexi glass. petco or petsmart do not even offer glass anymore. and where I live I do not have any real petshops within a reasonable distance.

ya i'd get two with a therm. or dimmer if i was you...im in colorado, which is kinda close to your climate(you got more humiditity,lucky),

u gotta get that temp up asap!

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Originally Posted by Shin86

u gotta get that temp up asap!

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yup, thanks I am leaving now to go get a second small heat pad and the thermostat since it has two plug ports on it. can the thermostat regulate each pad at its own temperature? I guess ill find out when I get there.

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Originally Posted by TraviZ

yup, thanks I am leaving now to go get a second small heat pad and the thermostat since it has two plug ports on it. can the thermostat regulate each pad at its own temperature? I guess ill find out when I get there.

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depending on how much money you wanna spend.....

ok i got another small heating pad and went to lowes and got two dimmer switches, its all plugged in and my pads are heating up and i will get them to 82-92 and mess with the dimmers to get them to hold. im guessing a few degrees variance throughout days and nights wont be terrible?

Ideally your temps shouldn't change more than a degree or two. Make sure your cool side is set to 82* and your hot side is 92*.

With the dimmers you might find yourself adjusting them throughout the day depending on the temperature of the room. You should really think about getting a thermostat. They are much more reliable and easier. Once you set it, you never have to change it.

ok i installed dimmers but they are junk, even on the lowest dim, they are both getting too hot! I guess I will have to dish out for two thermostats at 40 bucks each..