New Ball Python Owner

Just checking in to ensure that I'm doing things right. I've been consulting some experts on other sites, talking to herp vets and a local herp shop but apparently I can't rest till I have all the information possible.

Okay, so my sister apparently didn't get the memo about not buying pets as gifts and bought me a juvenile ball python for graduation.

She bought him from Petco (which I would NOT have) and bought me a kit enclosure. The kit included a 20 long tank (glass on all sides) with a sliding lid with a lock, water dish (which I replaced with a bigger one), wood chip bedding (which I replaced with bed-a-beast), one rock hide, and two 8.5 inch reflector dome lamps.

I have added a log hide, a bunch of vines and leaves, a hunk of slate to partially cover the entrance to his favorite hide so he feels more secure, and two large pieces of driftwood (one arranged to allow him to climb on top of his log to bask - which he does particularly at night - and the other to partially cover his water dish so he feels comfy.

My sister also bought an UTH pad which I have stopped using as my local herp shop experts said not to use it unless I have a super serious thermostat on it, which I don't...and that they just use heat lamps on their balls.

So...I've blacked out three sides of his enclosure with black aquarium liner...made his enclosure totally cozy with lots of stuff...and I'm not handling him except to take him out once a week to attempt to feed...thus far he's not falling for it.

I've had him for about three weeks. For the first two, he never left his hide. But since the last feeding attempt he is coming out and basking and generally looking more comfortable.

I'm keeping his warm side between 85 and 95 degrees on the floor, and his basking spot is probably closer to 100 degrees at the highest point. The humidity on the warm side is 50% and on the cool side it's 65%. The cool side of the enclosure ranges from 70-80 degrees.

So...I'm going to attempt feeding him again on Saturday, and the herp shop recommended in lieu of the mouse on the tongs approach, that I just pop him and the prey item into his rubbermaid (opaque) feeding bin and close the lid and leave him for 2-3 hours. If that doesn't work, they suggested bagging him and the mouse overnight in his enclosure.

Every time I put him back in his enclosure after a feeding attempt he drinks and explores (and yawns which is the cutest thing ever) so I think he's doing okay, just still stressed out.

So...I'm just looking for any advice...I've considered placing his UTH under his water dish where he can't get to it (which is on the cool end of the tank) but I'm afraid that would screw with the humidity...and I just can't afford a thermostat right now...I've already spent like $150 getting him acclimated...

Oh, and here's a picture for you.

I present....Simon Lazarus...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...3/IMGP2989.jpg

I use under the tank heat only on my snakes (or the real Florida outdoor heat :) ) I have never put it under the dish, as I feel like warm water is just begging to grow nasty bacteria. I just have a thick enough layer of bedding (repti bark usually, but sometimes newspaper) in my tanks so that they're not directly laying on the heating pad right through the glass.

Congrats on your new snake- pretty animal!

Oh, forgot to add...I contacted the petco where he was purchased and they had no feeding history on him...all they could tell me is that they feed F/T fuzzies, and they do so every Thursday but couldn't tell me when he last ate.

Also, they guaranteed that he is captive bred (which was a load off my mind)

Glad he is captive bred. Mine usually don't eat when I first get them.

I was shocked when last week I had three snakes shipped by mail from out of state, and two of them pounded two mice on their second days here. I consider that remarkable.

Whoa, yea, I'd consider that remarkable as well!

It was. I wasn't even going to try feeding them but I fed everyone else and I figured what they heck, you know? And be darned if that little pied and my new black pastel boy didn't nail those mice right away. Woohoo! But my pastel girl did not... I will try again next week... she's definitely healthy so I am not worried.

Your snake is lucky to have found a caring owner who is seeking info and taking responsibility. I don't think many pet market snakes are so lucky.

Yea, I agree...especially since he was purchased duing the 'ball python sale'. My sister had intended on buying me a corn snake, but since the balls were on sale for $10 less than the corns, and since I <3 balls, she bought him for me...And really, I'm just thankful that he's not in the pet store anymore...their cage setup is so wrong it's not even funny.

Congrats on the new babies! I'm sure youre little girl will turn around soon!

Yeah, it really irks me to see snakes in pet stores to be honest. Maybe it's because I come from the dog world and the concept of selling puppies in pet stores sickens the vast majority of dog lovers.

Live animals should not be impulse purchases! Your snake is definitely lucky :) Keep sharing pics. I am sure more experienced keepers than I am will join in with more tips. I have quite a few snakes and they are all thriving, but I am by no means an expert.

I agree...I'm a total animal SUCKER...and it makes me nuts to see them in chain pet stores. We have a local shop that I trust, but they are highly responsible with their animals and with who they are adopted out to...which is a rarity these days.

I totally appreciate any and all advice at this point! I just want to make sure I'm going about this the right way because all my previous experience is in pets is of the furred variety. :-)

Yup, me too! We did get a pastel male from a shop, but it is a small, private shop and they care very much about their animals. They knew we'd give him a good home.

First of all, I don't know anything about Bed-A-Beast but I'm going to guess it's like ground cypress, which should be fine.

Get rid of that log hide. Those are extremely useless to ball pythons. Balls also don't need large water bowls because they don't need to soak, anything the size of a deli cup (2 in wide) is fine. They just need it to drink.

Ball pythons do not bask, they hide constantly. They need there proper temperatures where they hide. Get two identical one opening hides (make sure they are snug, you want all sides of the hide to touch him at all times!) and put one on the warm side and one on the cool side.
100F is burning temperature!! You never want any area to exceed 95F under the substrate. Remove any basking light you have immediately, because it sucks humidity and they would not use it anyway. You have a UTH? What are you using to control it? If nothing, get a dimmer temporarily from a hardware store (they go for 50c or so a piece) and look into investing for a nice thermostat to control your UTH.
Do you have digital thermometers with probes? Digital hygrometer for humidity? You can get the probe thermometers at a petstore or online (you should have two, one for warm one for cool, and the probes should be put under the substrate above the UTH) and a digital hygrometer/thermometer set at Walmart or Home Depot in the gardening section, this will tell you your ambient temp which should stay at about 80-85F.
If you have any dial (non-digital) thermometers or hygrometers, trash them. They are extremely inaccurate and useless.

Feed him in his enclosure, taking him out of the cage will only stress him out more.

I am surprised to hear about the small bowls. We have large bowls for ours- every one of them soaks occasionally.

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

First of all, I don't know anything about Bed-A-Beast but I'm going to guess it's like ground cypress, which should be fine.

Get rid of that log hide. Those are extremely useless to ball pythons. Balls also don't need large water bowls because they don't need to soak, anything the size of a deli cup (2 in wide) is fine. They just need it to drink.

Ball pythons do not bask, they hide constantly. They need there proper temperatures where they hide. Get two identical one opening hides (make sure they are snug, you want all sides of the hide to touch him at all times!) and put one on the warm side and one on the cool side.
100F is burning temperature!! You never want any area to exceed 95F under the substrate. Remove any basking light you have immediately, because it sucks humidity and they would not use it anyway. You have a UTH? What are you using to control it? If nothing, get a dimmer temporarily from a hardware store (they go for 50c or so a piece) and look into investing for a nice thermostat to control your UTH.
Do you have digital thermometers with probes? Digital hygrometer for humidity? You can get the probe thermometers at a petstore or online (you should have two, one for warm one for cool, and the probes should be put under the substrate above the UTH) and a digital hygrometer/thermometer set at Walmart or Home Depot in the gardening section, this will tell you your ambient temp which should stay at about 80-85F.
If you have any dial (non-digital) thermometers or hygrometers, trash them. They are extremely inaccurate and useless.

Feed him in his enclosure, taking him out of the cage will only stress him out more.

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Bed-a-beast is ground coconut husk. My local herp shop uses only this for their snakes because you can keep one side dry and one side moist for humidity variability.

Actually, my ball tends to climb up on top of his log hide (which is what I intended it for) and bask in the leaves under his heat lamp. He also spends a fair amount of time climbing up in the leaves and vines wrapped around his driftwood logs. My herp shop recommended a basking point between 95 and 105 degrees that he can climb up to if he so desires. This is the ambient temp in that area, not a surface temp.

I do not use the UTH that I have because my herp specialists told me not to. All of my temps are achieved via overhead heat lamps. These do not dry out my tank too much because I'm using bed-a-beast and have a large water bowl to help maintain humidity.

My ambient temp on the floor of the enclosure is 85-95 on the warm side and 70-80 on the cool side. I do not use probes for under substrate temps because I do not use under tank heaters.

I have thermometers and hygrometers on both ends of the tank laying right on the surface of the substrate. They are not digital. At some point I will upgrade to digital, but like I said, I already spent $150 getting his enclosure to this point and can't afford anything else for a while as I'm about to enter an internship that costs $10,000. Besides, the dial therm/hygrometers that I currently have are reading at least somewhat accurately currently because if I swap them out, they quickly adjust to the new area and read what the previous gauge read in that spot.

Also, my herp shop specialists recommended the feeding bin to actually minimize stress because he will be in complete darkness and will have more privacy in an opaque bin than in his enclosure. Besides, I don't want him swallowing substrate accidentally.

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Originally Posted by TheOtherLeadingBrand

I am surprised to hear about the small bowls. We have large bowls for ours- every one of them soaks occasionally.

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Soaking pre-shed will actually cause the shed to be much worse and can be avoided. Bigger bowls are hunky and more of a hassle that isn't really needed. :gj:

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Originally Posted by bella

Bed-a-beast is ground coconut husk. My local herp shop uses only this for their snakes because you can keep one side dry and one side moist for humidity variability.

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That's a fine substrate then, as long as it doesn't mold easily.

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Actually, my ball tends to climb up on top of his log hide (which is what I intended it for) and bask in the leaves under his heat lamp. He also spends a fair amount of time climbing up in the leaves and vines wrapped around his driftwood logs. My herp shop recommended a basking point between 95 and 105 degrees that he can climb up to if he so desires. This is the ambient temp in that area, not a surface temp.

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I hate to say this, but your herp shop has some dangerous information. Anything above 95 degrees is a dangerous zone for ball pythons. Basking heat is not needed for bps because they need proper belly heat to digest their food. If he is active and climbing, that is a sign of stress, and bps can hurt themselves because they are ground snakes and are not very good at climbing. If he is on top of the log hide, it sounds like he is sacrificing his hiding desires for his heat desires, which means you need a better thermoregulation set-up with identical hides (so he doesn't have to choose and sacrifice).

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I do not use the UTH that I have because my herp specialists told me not to. All of my temps are achieved via overhead heat lamps. These do not dry out my tank too much because I'm using bed-a-beast and have a large water bowl to help maintain humidity.

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A very very large percentage of the members on here (most of which have healthy, eating, and breeding snakes) use UTHs ONLY. The large water bowl is not a proper way to achieve humidity, as you can see, it creates a humidity gradient on one side whereas the other side is not the proper humidity. Be careful wetting the bed-a-beast. If the substrate is damp consistently it can lead to mold or scale rot problems, as well as RIs, which are expensive vet bills.

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My ambient temp on the floor of the enclosure is 85-95 on the warm side and 70-80 on the cool side. I do not use probes for under substrate temps because I do not use under tank heaters.

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Your temperatures should not be a 10 degree variable. And it should never get below 78F (IMO) on the cool side. 70F is dangerously low temperatures as well.

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I have thermometers and hygrometers on both ends of the tank laying right on the surface of the substrate. They are not digital. At some point I will upgrade to digital, but like I said, I already spent $150 getting his enclosure to this point and can't afford anything else for a while as I'm about to enter an internship that costs $10,000. Besides, the dial therm/hygrometers that I currently have are reading at least somewhat accurately currently because if I swap them out, they quickly adjust to the new area and read what the previous gauge read in that spot.

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You can get a digital hygrometer/thermometer combo at Walmart for less than $10. You only need one because you should not have that much variability in ambient temps and humidity.

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Also, my herp shop specialists recommended the feeding bin to actually minimize stress because he will be in complete darkness and will have more privacy in an opaque bin than in his enclosure. Besides, I don't want him swallowing substrate accidentally.

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I don't know how specialized your herp shop specialists are, but I feed all 14 of my snakes in their cages, and they pound rats like there is no tomorrow. There is also no association between hands and feeding (that is a myth) and substrate ingestion is rarely an issue as they digest bones and hair very easily. Plus handling is generally a stressful thing, so when you handle previous to an attempted feed and put them in a brand new place and shove a rat in their face, man, I would be stressed too!
He should be at 100% privacy in his enclosure, that is our goal here. ;)

I drew a picture of a well done set-up. It's very simple and has worked wonders. This is a set-up for a tank, if you wanted to try to temporarily switch to a tub (as a home) to see if that helps him eat, that's an even more simple set-up.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...g?t=1243974193

Edit: P.S. You sound like you don't have a ton of money to spend on this bp. They are expensive animals (as you will quickly find through feeding them) and that should be considered prior to getting a bp.
However, if you would be willing to consider a tub set-up, it's much less stressful but is also much less expensive and easier to heat and keep humidity.

Okay well if you would like some actual advice (no offense) please take it into consideration. I am not trying to put you down or tell you you are not caring for your new BP correctly. I would like to help as much as possible if I may :)

First off, those half log hides are not really ideal for ball pythons because they don't give them much security. The rock cave types are much better but make sure the snake fits snugly inside. The tighter the fit, the better secure the snake feels. The hides should be identical and there should be one on the cool side and one on the warm side, water bowl in the middle.

Okay now to address your temps. They are pretty off mostly because you are using lamps. I find belly heat to be much more efficient and accurate than lamps. The herp store was right though, you do need to run a UTH (and a lamp for that matter) with a thermostat. It doesn't really have to be fancy and expensive as he suggested though. The reptitemp 500r is the most basic and runs abour $25. They are more widely available online though.

Okay, so your hotside temp should be around 93*F and cool side should be around 83*F. 100* anywhere in the enclosure is more than enough to cause burns or even cook your snake. You can still use a lamp, but you really should use a dimmer with it (at least). You can find a piggy back dimmer at the home depot for about $10.

That should help you get started with your temps. But another important part is how you are getting temps. If you are using those dial gague thermometers, ditch them. They can be up to 10* off and that is not so good. Invest in some digital thermometers that have external probes so you can get an accurate temp reading on the surfaces where the snake is.

I've got to run to work, but I'll be back with LOTS more questions for you soon!

I've been checking a few things out on websites so be prepared for questions about the quality of certain items.

Thanks!

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Originally Posted by bella

I've got to run to work, but I'll be back with LOTS more questions for you soon!

I've been checking a few things out on websites so be prepared for questions about the quality of certain items.

Thanks!

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No problem, ask questions! That's what we're here for.

Just remember, we're not all experts but we are very experianced in setting up these guys, so advice from our members on here is a good thing to listen to! :gj:

Oh, and I feed ALL my animals in their enclosures, and I don't touch them without necessity for 48 hours after they eat. I have 13 snakes, soon 14, and have had snakes for twenty years, since I was eight. I have never been bitten as a result of feeding my snakes in their tanks. Just my experience :)

Yea, I don't remember why my herp shop recommended feedig in feeding bins...but it wasn't because of potential aggression...I just know I was all about it because it gives me a few uninterrupted hours to thoroughly clean out his enclosure LOL

Okay, back in a few hours with more questions about heating and such...

Thanks all!

I don't know what others do but all mine but two I can just put on my neck/shoulders while I clean their tank, or I hand them to my husband. If I have to, I can put them in a spare tank or a snake bag. I only go extreme and soak/bleach the entire tank occasionally. Normally wipe out and change substrate, while he holds the snake or other way around :)

I have an undertank heater on the warm side that keeps it at low 90's (though I have to watch it doesn't go higher), but I also use a lamp on the cool side to keep it at 80. Otherwise it falls below 80, and an UTH makes it too hot. So imo, don't toss the lamp, you might need it as an additional in the winter time. Just a suggestion!

Oh, and also, since you blacked out the back there, maybe your half-log hides are okay if you back them up against the back of the tank, making it three sides and therefore secure (assuming your snake fits in there snugly and its not to high or wide).

There are ways to make what you have work--though I am in total agreement with aforementioned posters about digital probe thermometers.

From my experience, pet shops feed in tubs because they generally keep more than one snake in one tank. You really can't feed 3-4 snakes in one tank. Don't worry about him eating any substrate. Usually they kick it out, but they can digest bones, so I don't think coconut husk will bother them.

I have 4 babies, use UTH on all of them (controlled of course). All are fed in their enclosures. He's basking because he is cold. If you use the UTH you will see he no longer will bask. BP's need belly heat to thermoregulate. It's easier for them to digest their food.

Welcome to BP.net by the way. Everyone here is extremely helpful.

Okay, so after work I stopped by the herp shop again and talked with two other snake specialists...and they again recommended that I not use under tank heaters.

They both said that 'belly heat' from an under tank source is not necessary, and that either continuing to use the basking and red bulbs that I have is fine, or I can switch to an overhead ceramic heat emitter (which is what they use in the shop). I'm just curious where the discrepancy comes in on this one.

I have an UTH, but am not willing to plug it in until I can afford a reliable thermo-regulator to plug it into so I can ensure that I don't burn him. I will almost certainly need it before fall/winter however because my house is old and does not retain heat well and I have a feeling that thermo-regulation is going to become a problem as things cool down after the summer.

I am looking into a more advanced/reliable thermometer and humidity gauge and will replace those as soon as possible. The dial therms I have now are accurate now, but like you guys said, they may not stay that way.

The guys at the shop also said that balls will bask and soak depending on their personality and their enclosure set up (ie, some may enjoy a soak if their water is on the warm side or right near a heat source). Mine is not interested in soaking, but since our last feeding attempt has been out exploring his cage when the room is quiet and dimly lit on a daily basis.

When I got home tonight he was exploring all around the front and sides of his tank, and he was doing the same thing this morning.

So really, I'm just more confused than ever. Every place that I talk to (in person and a few different sites online) I'm getting different information. :dead:

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

Get rid of that log hide. Those are extremely useless to ball pythons. Balls also don't need large water bowls because they don't need to soak, anything the size of a deli cup (2 in wide) is fine. They just need it to drink.

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I would recommend the water dish being atleast 4 inches across. Unless you are using a pvc holder for the deli cup to sit in, I wouldnt recommend them in the tank/tub they will get tipped over. The 4 inch crock style dish would be my choice. Those are what I use from babies to adults in my racks.

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Originally Posted by bella

Okay, so after work I stopped by the herp shop again and talked with two other snake specialists...and they again recommended that I not use under tank heaters.

They both said that 'belly heat' from an under tank source is not necessary, and that either continuing to use the basking and red bulbs that I have is fine, or I can switch to an overhead ceramic heat emitter (which is what they use in the shop). I'm just curious where the discrepancy comes in on this one.

I have an UTH, but am not willing to plug it in until I can afford a reliable thermo-regulator to plug it into so I can ensure that I don't burn him. I will almost certainly need it before fall/winter however because my house is old and does not retain heat well and I have a feeling that thermo-regulation is going to become a problem as things cool down after the summer.

I am looking into a more advanced/reliable thermometer and humidity gauge and will replace those as soon as possible. The dial therms I have now are accurate now, but like you guys said, they may not stay that way.

The guys at the shop also said that balls will bask and soak depending on their personality and their enclosure set up (ie, some may enjoy a soak if their water is on the warm side or right near a heat source). Mine is not interested in soaking, but since our last feeding attempt has been out exploring his cage when the room is quiet and dimly lit on a daily basis.

When I got home tonight he was exploring all around the front and sides of his tank, and he was doing the same thing this morning.

So really, I'm just more confused than ever. Every place that I talk to (in person and a few different sites online) I'm getting different information. :dead:

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Pet shops tend to recommend things that can be bought in their store, but aren't necessary usually. Just my opinion. I bought like 200 bucks worth of pet shop stuff back when I got my first BP...only to find out that a 6 dollar tub, a 3.60 sheet of 11" Flexwatt and a $109 Herpstat are allllll that you need. Weird ehh?

They have actually recommended that I buy nothing at all from their store. They don't even have some of the things that they were talking to me about.

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Originally Posted by bella

They have actually recommended that I buy nothing at all from their store. They don't even have some of the things that they were talking to me about.

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Then you're lucky. The pet store I'm talking about was a bunch of bloodsuckers.

Ah, yes, I'm familiar with those places...I think that my sister bough this little fella and all his original accoutremonts from bloodsucking pets inc. :)

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Originally Posted by bella

Ah, yes, I'm familiar with those places...I think that my sister bough this little fella and all his original accoutremonts from bloodsucking pets inc. :)

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Yeah the initial BLoodsucker Starter Set. The Premium Kit includes fancy climbing jungle gym things for your ground dwelling snake! Buy one TODAY!

But yeah, Petco and PetsMart can eat it. I only go there because my dog gets free treats and my fish is hungry.

HAHAHA!

I only go to PetsMart to clean out the humane society kitty's cages as a volunteer. And, the free adoptable kitty hugs are a bonus. The last time I brought my dog to Petco, I think she crapped on the floor.

Bella,

We are not trying to give you misinformation. It sounds to me like the "specialists" you are talking for are rather misinformed themselves.

Lamps are not suggested for ball pythons because they SUCK the humidity out of the tank and that causes the snakes to have bad sheds (which is BAD). A UTH will not suck your humidity and will give yoru snake proper belly heat. I would highly suggest using the UTH instead of the two "basking lights". Ball pythons do not "bask" really. They just sit in termite mounds and rodent holes most of their lives. They don't often come out to sit on a warm rock at night. Here is what you can do until you can get a thermostat (The one I recommended for you was only $25 so I don't see how that is really all that financially difficult"). Go to the home depot and get a lutron lamp dimmer, $10. You can plug the uth directly into this and control the temp of the UTH. You might have to adjust it a few times a day if your room temp is not stable, but it will keep the UTH from overheating and burning your snake.

Now either home depot, lowes, or walmart should carry an accurite digital thermometer and hydrometer with a probe. These are around $11 and it will be all you ever need to measure the temps for your little guy. I think when you put the digital thermometers in there, you will notice that it is much hotter than you expected. Those dial thermometers are not accurate, as much as you think they may be. It is probably much hotter in there then you realize.


As for the cruising, that is a sign of stress. Ball pythons hide 90% of the time. I only see my snakes out cruising when they are looking for food the day before or on feeding day. It sounds to me like your little one needs a bit more security. Find some tighter hides. Upside down plastic bowls with a small opening cut into them work very well. Make sure the snake barely fits inside. They really like small spaces.


This is some of the exact info given to me when I first got my ball python and it worked wonders for me. I now have two snakes (soon a third!) and I keep them in plastic tubs with belly heat in a rack system. This is how most snake breeders keep their snakes and raise them into healthy and calm animals. :)

Bella, I can not force you to listen to us, as it is probably more difficult because we are after all, people on the internet.
However, next time your with those snake experts, ask them how many snakes they've kept, what they kept them in, and how many times they have successfully bred snakes and raised the babies to breed again.

Many people on here are breeders, I will soon consider myself one as well (not for bps yet, but for corn snakes). The experience of breeding is incredible, and a huge leap of knowledge and learning. In order to breed, all of our animals have to be stress-free and well fed. We've dealt with the picky baby feeders and we know what husbandry ticks are bad and can be so small but can cause such a prolonged feeding issue.
Some people on her have THOUSANDS of snakes. I may only have 14, but they are all set-up in that picture I sent you (except slightly more simple because they are in tubs). They all pound racks, and only occasionally are seen out of their hides at night. That is a happy ball python. ;)

I don't know why they keep telling you not to use UTHs, especially if they are on a thermostat (which helps prevent shortages and such). All 14 of my snakes are above flexwatt heat tape (it's a cheap form of an UTH, however it gets very very warm and needs a very nice thermostat). Heat lamps have zero benefits for ball pythons. They have lots of benefits for bearded dragons, tortoises, and iguanas, but not for ball pythons.

Next time your at the store, ask why they prefer UTHs. If they say for the UVA and UVB rays, then you can know they are not specialists. (Balls have no benefits from UV lamps).

Okay, so if I were to set up the UTH that I currently have (it's probably 5x8 inches or less) I doubt it is large enough to maintain proper temps in my enclosure (20 long) so I presume it would be acceptable to use my lamps to bring the heat up to speed?

Also, because I'm on such a limited budget (30 grand in student loans, 10 grand due in two months for my internship and I'm not permitted to work during this internship plus my mortgage and bills) I just don't have the money to totally convert his enclosure at this time. That said, what would you recommend in terms of a reliable, long term thermostat that can ensure the temps will stay in range?

Keep in mind, I'm not a multi-reptile owner. I will probably never own more than one reptile at a time and want to give him the best I can, while not going into foreclosure ya know?

I believe this is the UTH that I currently have.

http://www.petmountain.com/show_prod...tm_term=500353

Okay, I'm just perusing some pet supply stores online...what are your thoughts on these items?

http://www.petmountain.com/product/r...ermometer.html

http://www.bigappleherp.com/BAH-1000...=2&category=15

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

Next time your at the store, ask why they prefer UTHs. If they say for the UVA and UVB rays, then you can know they are not specialists. (Balls have no benefits from UV lamps).

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I asked them yesterday and they said because for most snake owners, overhead lights or heat emitters are safer than unpredictable heating pads. In reality, they don't think your run of the mill, 1 snake family is going to spend the extra money on a thermostat and timers and digital thermometers which would prevent a short in an UTH in addition to the cost of the animal itself, and the enclosure supplies (most people with one snake won't want to keep it in a tub from my experience...they want to showcase it).

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Originally Posted by bella

Okay, I'm just perusing some pet supply stores online...what are your thoughts on these items?

http://www.petmountain.com/product/r...ermometer.html

http://www.bigappleherp.com/BAH-1000...=2&category=15

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I have never used either one of those. I highly suggest using one of these: http://reptilebasics.com/Johnson-Con...d-p-16178.html . I have a few of them, and they work great. They are one of the cheapest reliable digital thermostats that you can buy. If you insulate your tank, you should be fine just using an under tank heater (UTH.) You will also need to cover most of the top of the tank with something; such as, a piece of plexiglass or tin foil. Your UTH should cover 1/3 of the underside of your tank. Put it on either the far left or the far right. You should place it under the side with the hide.

Hope this helps.

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Originally Posted by bella

(most people with one snake won't want to keep it in a tub from my experience...they want to showcase it).

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Ball pythons are very insecure, and are not good display animals. They hide during most of the daylight hours.

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Originally Posted by Wh00h0069

Ball pythons are very insecure, and are not good display animals. They hide during most of the daylight hours.

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Yes, I know...but the enclosure is more what I meant. I don't know if that makes sense, but people with one snake that I know, want the enclosure to be a part of the household even if the snake is reclusive. My enclosure is on display, but to respect his temperament, his enclosure is tucked in a low traffic corner, three sides are blacked out, he has multiple hides, and much of his tank is covered in greenery he can hide in as well.

I just want to step in for a moment. After quickly reading through this thread, it brought some things to mind that I'd like to remind people...

Most of the issues being pushed for in this thread are OPTIONS and not necessities. There's nothing wrong with overhead heat for a ball python...if the keeper can get the right temps and humidity, the snake really doesn't care of the heat is overhead or underneath. Or even from the side, such as a radiant heat panel or flexwatt down the back of a rack.

There's also nothing wrong with UTH heat. It's all just a matter of preference and what works best for the keeper. But when folks INSIST that their way is the only proper way to do it we create confusion and misunderstanding.

Water bowls....they only NEED a small bowl to drink from. However, there is nothing wrong with providing a larger bowl. Some people like to give their snake the option to soak. Some people need the extra boost of humidity a large bowl gives. Some people don't like to mess with the trouble of large heavy bowls. Again, it is a matter of OPINION and keeper preference. There's no sense in insisting that someone change their way of doing things just because you prefer it differently.

My only real concern about the OP's set up is the temperature extremes. A range of 70 to 105 is far outside of any parameters I've ever seen or heard of for keeping ball pythons healthy. A range of 80 to 90 or even up to 95 would be far more ideal and reduce the chances of your snake getting sick or going off its food.

Seriously folks....let's try to remember that there is no exact way to keep these beauties. Tubs or tanks....UTH or lamps.....feeding outside or inside the cage....big bowls or little bowls.....

Share your opinion....state WHY you prefer what you do....but don't make it sound like your way is the only right way. :please:

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Originally Posted by JLC

I just want to step in for a moment. After quickly reading through this thread, it brought some things to mind that I'd like to remind people...

Most of the issues being pushed for in this thread are OPTIONS and not necessities. There's nothing wrong with overhead heat for a ball python...if the keeper can get the right temps and humidity, the snake really doesn't care of the heat is overhead or underneath. Or even from the side, such as a radiant heat panel or flexwatt down the back of a rack.

There's also nothing wrong with UTH heat. It's all just a matter of preference and what works best for the keeper. But when folks INSIST that their way is the only proper way to do it we create confusion and misunderstanding.

Water bowls....they only NEED a small bowl to drink from. However, there is nothing wrong with providing a larger bowl. Some people like to give their snake the option to soak. Some people need the extra boost of humidity a large bowl gives. Some people don't like to mess with the trouble of large heavy bowls. Again, it is a matter of OPINION and keeper preference. There's no sense in insisting that someone change their way of doing things just because you prefer it differently.

My only real concern about the OP's set up is the temperature extremes. A range of 70 to 105 is far outside of any parameters I've ever seen or heard of for keeping ball pythons healthy. A range of 80 to 90 or even up to 95 would be far more ideal and reduce the chances of your snake getting sick or going off its food.

Seriously folks....let's try to remember that there is no exact way to keep these beauties. Tubs or tanks....UTH or lamps.....feeding outside or inside the cage....big bowls or little bowls.....

Share your opinion....state WHY you prefer what you do....but don't make it sound like your way is the only right way. :please:

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Thank you so much for this information!

I'm working on getting the temp gradient under control (the 105 was 1/2 way up the tank on top of a log - typical range on the floor is 85-90 on the warm side, and about 75 on the cool end which I'm working on bringing up) as I type...I'm thinking I might need some insulation on the sides and back of the enclosure because my house is freezing on a regular basis.

I will be using the UTH this fall and will be looking for recommendations on thermostats to regulate it if anyone has any favorites that are affordable.

Again, thanks for all of the information everyone.

You still should be controlling your heat sources (even the lamps). A lamp dimmer will due until you want to get a thermostat.

If you are using two lamps, I kind of doubt that your actual lowest temp is 75*. Lamps usually heat very efficiently. Try to get one of those accu-rite units. They look like this: http://www.songbirdgarden.com/store/...URITE00891.jpg

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Originally Posted by bella

Yes, I know...but the enclosure is more what I meant. I don't know if that makes sense, but people with one snake that I know, want the enclosure to be a part of the household even if the snake is reclusive. My enclosure is on display, but to respect his temperament, his enclosure is tucked in a low traffic corner, three sides are blacked out, he has multiple hides, and much of his tank is covered in greenery he can hide in as well.

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It sounds like he will be very happy in his enclosure then once his temps and humidity are in proper levels. Good luck with him.