My new Ball Python

Hey guys, got a new Ball Python yesterday. I named him Duke and he is my first reptile. So far so good and he seems to really enjoy being handled.

Here are a couple of pictures. I'm waiting on a thermometer and hydrometer and I need to get a stick or vines for him to climb. The tank is a Exo-Terra 24x18x18 glass terrarium, I have plantation soil and some forest bark for the substrate (both from Exo-Terra). I have a large Exo-Terra water dish and hiding spot. The plants are positioned to create another good hiding spot on the cooler side of the tank. I also have a Exo-Terra under tank heater on the side with the cave hiding spot.

What do you think? Any suggestions.

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/507...0361367581.jpg

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/6...0371376347.jpg

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/2...0381385036.jpg

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/188...0391391157.jpg

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/8...0411396738.jpg

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/7...0421405063.jpg

Having a UTH without a rheostat/thermostat is dangerous, especially without a thermometer to measure the temps.
Soil is not recommended as a substrate. Aspen, Repti-bark, paper towels, and newspaper are all good.
You'll want two hides - one for the hot/cool sides.
The climbing branches are not really necessary as bp's are terrestrial snakes for the most part.
And make sure you get digital hydros/therms, not analog.

Check this out, it has a lot of helpful info:
caresheet

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mrshawt

Having a UTH without a rheostat/thermostat is dangerous, especially without a thermometer to measure the temps.
Soil is not recommended as a substrate. Aspen, Repti-bark, paper towels, and newspaper are all good.
You'll want two hides - one for the hot/cool sides.
The climbing branches are not really necessary as bp's are terrestrial snakes for the most part.
And make sure you get digital hydros/therms, not analog.

Check this out, it has a lot of helpful info:
caresheet

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I have a separate digital themometer I user for PC temps. The warm side is around 86-88 degrees and the cool side is around 79-81 degrees with the air temp 4 " from the top hovering in the low 80's. From what I can tell that should be okay. I plan on keeping a close eye on it and will buy a rheostat.
The plantation soil is actually a compress coconut husk fiber and according to what I read it is suppose to be good, in fact the link you provided said coconut husk based substrates are good.

If you look in the back left area near the grassy stuff you'll see a plant that he loves to hide behind. When he is hiding behind that he isn't visible unless you really try to find him. I figured that would be a good enough hiding spot, will it work or should I get something else?

Here is one in my hand too.
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/5...0452689855.jpg

and get a 10 gallon aquarium

A cave-type hide (I would get another of the one you have) is preferred, because they like to be hugged by something on all sides. Not to bore you, but they hide in termite mounds in the wild haha.

And welcome to the forum btw!

Very pretty. I can see you like landscaping the terrarium. :)

In my opinion, that setup would be great for a small gecko or lizard, if you took away the UTH and added some branches. Your ball python will probably outgrow it in maybe six months or so. Also, since they tend to stay on the ground (though there are some exceptions of climbing ball pythons), the vertical space will not really be used much. I might stick a branch in there just to see if he'd use it.

Assuming the lamp is mainly for the plants and not for heat, be careful about its wattage. You didn't mention the type of bulb you're using; go with a compact fluorescent that won't emit a lot of heat. Incandescent lights tend to dry out tanks in no time and will overheat your ball if left unregulated.

There's a cheap, digital, two-side thermometer and hygrometer you can get at Wal-Mart for $11 made by Acu-Rite. Works pretty well and a lot of people on here use it.

Finally, you want to be very careful about using soil in there. Soil that isn't made for reptile substrate can have bugs, bacteria, and fertilizers in them that would cause problems if ingested accidentally by the ball python. Their bodies are not equipped to deal with foreign bacteria.

Welcome! I'm sorta new here too...

One thing, is wait on handling. I know, I know you can't resist, but you need to let him settle in and don't handle him until he is comfortable and eating. This is very important. I am currently having trouble with my python because I needed to change his terrarium and stressed him out a bit and he hasn't eaten yet.

But its good you are here! It shows that you care :D

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Originally Posted by rocky88

and get a 10 gallon aquarium

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I have a spare 10 gallon aquarium. I was planning on using it for feeding him. Why do you suggest I have a 10 gallon aquarium.

Babies are quite scared, makes them feel a bit more secure, your tank is very "open" per say, and it could scare him.

EDIT:
Plus with that sort of tank, a lot of vertical space is unused, especially with a primarily terrestrial snake. I know the cage is nice though, maybe you could always fill it with another herp :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by icygirl

Very pretty. I can see you like landscaping the terrarium. :)

In my opinion, that setup would be great for a small gecko or lizard, if you took away the UTH and added some branches. Your ball python will probably outgrow it in maybe six months or so. Also, since they tend to stay on the ground (though there are some exceptions of climbing ball pythons), the vertical space will not really be used much. I might stick a branch in there just to see if he'd use it.

Assuming the lamp is mainly for the plants and not for heat, be careful about its wattage. You didn't mention the type of bulb you're using; go with a compact fluorescent that won't emit a lot of heat. Incandescent lights tend to dry out tanks in no time and will overheat your ball if left unregulated.

There's a cheap, digital, two-side thermometer and hygrometer you can get at Wal-Mart for $11 made by Acu-Rite. Works pretty well and a lot of people on here use it.

Finally, you want to be very careful about using soil in there. Soil that isn't made for reptile substrate can have bugs, bacteria, and fertilizers in them that would cause problems if ingested accidentally by the ball python. Their bodies are not equipped to deal with foreign bacteria.

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Yeah.. I wanted the terrarium to look pretty nice and wanted a bit of variety so he'd enjoy it.

The plants aren't real so the light isn't for them. I figured I'd give him a bit of consistent lighting that could be used. The bulb is a 60W Exo Terra Neodymium daylight bulb. I heard they were pretty good, it is an incandescent though. Do you think it will be a problem?

Also will he really out grow this tank in six months? Everything I read online (and was told by the pet store) suggested this size tank should be good for most Ball Pythons for the most of the life. Everything I read suggested a 20-30gallon tank and my 29 gallon aquarium I have has a smaller surface area than this one. The surface area of my 29 gallon is 360 sq inches and the surface are of this terrarium is 432 sq inches.

The soil I'm using is also made for reptiles, it is Exo-Terra Plantation soil that is actually made from coconut husks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by N1GHTRA1N

Also will he really out grow this tank in six months? Everything I read online (and was told by the pet store) suggested this size tank should be good for most Ball Pythons for the most of the life. Everything I read suggested a 20-30gallon tank and my 29 gallon aquarium I have has a smaller surface area than this one. The surface area of my 29 gallon is 360 sq inches and the surface are of this terrarium is 432 sq inches.

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The problem isn't the surface area, it's the height. Since Ball Pythons generally hang out on the ground, your snake will only use whatever the floor surface is - and that won't be enough as he grows. A simple rectangular glass aquarium (like you'd use for fish) will be more useful, and a 10-gallon should last up to a year. :gj:

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The soil I'm using is also made for reptiles, it is Exo-Terra Plantation soil that is actually made from coconut husks.

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I don't know about that specific substrate, but I imagine it will be messy and hard to clean... plus others have mentioned the danger of ingestion, which is more likely to happen with soil-like flooring. I recently switched over to paper towels (from Carefresh) for my BPs, and it's so nice! I find they're much cleaner looking, don't smell or create dust, and are seriously easy to change out.

Btw, welcome to the forum, and your snake is beautiful. :) Does he have a name yet? I joined this forum in February when I got my first BP, and it has been a WEALTH of information... really, you won't believe how much you'll learn here! You also won't believe how addictive BPs are, and how quickly you will want another - and another. :D

P.S. Even if it's not right for a Ball, I think that tank you have is really nice... maybe you can get a chameleon to live there? :)

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Originally Posted by StormSerpent

Babies are quite scared, makes them feel a bit more secure, your tank is very "open" per say, and it could scare him.

EDIT:
Plus with that sort of tank, a lot of vertical space is unused, especially with a primarily terrestrial snake. I know the cage is nice though, maybe you could always fill it with another herp :)

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I dont know what the dimensions are on his exo terra but it look like i has more floor space or the same as a 10g

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Originally Posted by sg1trogdor

I dont know what the dimensions are on his exo terra but it look like i has more floor space or the same as a 10g

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Like I said before I has more floor space than my 29g aquarium. It is very deep, 18" to be exact. It is 24" wide as well. So the floor area is pretty good. I have a 10g which I plan to use for feeding, so he is much less likely to ingest any substrate when eating since that 10g won't have any substrate, I may put down some artificial grass turf. Anyway my 10g fish tank is 9.5"x12" so I'm sure if a 10g aquarium would last a year then I'm sure this Terrarium would last long since the total floor space is equal to almost four of my 10g tanks. Even my 29g has a surface area of 29.5"x12" so again my terrarium has more floor space, no it isn't as long but it is deeper.

I looked at a 30g rectangle aquarium and it was 30"x12" which is a surface area of 360 square inches. I figured a 24"x18" tank with would be suitable since it has 432 square inches of surface space making it bigger than a rectangular 30g tank. My tank is 18" high and since just about every 30-40g rectanglar tank I've seen are around 16" high I don't really see me have all that much extra height.

Everything I read, and I did a lot of reading, before buying a snake said a terrarium like the one I bought would be suitable for a ball python when compared to a similar sized rectangular aquarium would be fine since ball pythons love to curl up in a ball. The capacity of my 24x18x18 tank is actually 36g so if you only factor in height then 36g and 18" high means that if I were to fill this with water every 1" would be 2g of water. So if I reduced the height to 16" like most aquariums in the 30-40g range I would be able to hold 32g of water. This is a pretty big tank, I think it may just be deceiving by its looks in a picture.

I considered a 40g tank too but just didn't have the room to accomodate the 36" width. The 40g tanks are 36"x15" so they have 540 square inches of surface area on the floor. This is 108 more square inches on the floor than my tank, which is a nice bit of room. However my tank as 72 square inches more space than the average 30g rectangle aquarium so that is a good difference too. I could understand if this was a 24"x12" tank (the size of a 20g rectangle tank) the space being too little to the extra 6" in depth certainly makes a difference. In fact it makes the surface are 50% bigger than a 20g rectangular tank.

This terrarium is actually the 3rd largest Exo-Terra make according to their website. Mine is 24x18x18 but they also make a 34x18x24 and a 36x18x18.

Everything I read online suggested a 20-30g would be fine for most ball pythons for their life, infact more places recommended against going larger than 40g so I though I was right in the sweet spot the a more squarish tank with the surface area larger than a 30g rectangular tank. If I ever feel this tank isn't suitable for him I'm buy a bigger one but I'm certain it should last sometime.

Now I do have one more question, I'm just wondering what dimensions are of all your tanks. The width and lenght should be all that matters since height isn't a big deal for these snakes, although mine can't stop climbing up the back wall of the tank, he seems to really enjoy doing that. He is doing it right now and I'd take a picture if it wasn't so dark. He stretches his full length (about 16-18") and almost makes it right to the top, which is why I want to get him a tree.

Anyway I'd really apprentice the dimensions of your tanks guys so I can compare how mine really stands up. Also like I said if I ever need to I'll just buy a bigger rectangular tank I have a wall that could fit a 60 or 70g tank in my basement den if I moved a few things around.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lolo76

P.S. Even if it's not right for a Ball, I think that tank you have is really nice... maybe you can get a chameleon to live there? :)

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Not a good space for a chameleon, they really need screen enclosures since they need the air flow. Glass terrariums are a bad idea for a chameleon. Sometimes the reflections of themselves in the glass can also cause them to be stressed.

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Originally Posted by sg1trogdor

I dont know what the dimensions are on his exo terra but it look like i has more floor space or the same as a 10g

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Thanks, please seem my post below, my exo terra actually has almost exact four times the floor space of my 10g and even more than my 29g tanks.

BTW I have the Exo-Terra PT-2610. More information can be found here. http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products..._terrarium.php

I think what they're saying is that this terrarium with a larger area will stress a baby bp out more than say, a 10g.

I have a 40g, which is 36x18x14ish?

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Originally Posted by mrshawt

I think what they're saying is that this terrarium with a larger area will stress a baby bp out more than say, a 10g.

I have a 40g, which is 36x18x14ish?

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Cool, how big is the snake now? That tank is 50% larger than mine, so basically mine is 2/3 the size of yours.

BTW, I mentioned it in the first post but I'll say it again because someone asked. My ball pythons name is "DUKE"

My bp is over 3 ft now (not sure by how much) and weighs about 1200g as of last week.

I would keep you snakes setup how it is except I would add a bit of constuction paper on the sides so its not as open. Other then that I dont see any problems. I stated with a 20g L tank for my first and second snakes (seperate tanks) and never had any issues. Its all dependent on the snake. If your snake eats, poops, and sheds fine then leave it be. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sg1trogdor

I would keep you snakes setup how it is except I would add a bit of constuction paper on the sides so its not as open. Other then that I dont see any problems. I stated with a 20g L tank for my first and second snakes (seperate tanks) and never had any issues. Its all dependent on the snake. If your snake eats, poops, and sheds fine then leave it be. :D

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I agree on the covering the sides thing. If you use a thicker material, such as foam board, you can insulate the tank a little bit if that's ever an issue.

That tank is awesome! I wouldn't change a thing unless you run into problems, like your snake refusing food or humidity issues. Your snake will let you know if it is too big or too small.

I would keep things the way they are. Looks like you're doing a great job so far and I'm diggin' the tank.

Remember ladies and gents there is more than 1 way of keeping these lovelies and every snake is different. I know starting glass tanks and bigger environments can be challenging and isn't necessarily recommended as that's how I started but I did go about things a little different way than the most basic guidelines and it took a little extra work but a year later I have a healthy growin' boy still :)

Not saying that the suggestions of change aren't good because based on what's been proven they are very good guidelines. I didn't take the time to read through every post but if you have a UTH hooked up get a Thermostat asap and I recommend Dion at Spyder Robotics.

Good Luck!

I'm a newbie

Dude your snake is living in Beverly Hills! Nice setup! I agree with the others, the snake will let you know what you're doing wrong...just keep reading the forums, and you'll get an idea yourself...

I would switch the light to a nocturnal infared, and paint the sides black, or use the foam walls as suggested...

:welcome:

Okay so I made a few changes today. First off it is hard to get a digital thermometer/hygrometer device here locally. So I'm going to order one online, do you think one of those stick on LCD ones will be fine until I ca get a better one?

So I added an additional hide cave on the cool side of the tank and some Exo-Terra suction cup plants on the sides of the tank to help the openess. I also added a climing vine and he loves it, in fact within 15 mins of me setting it up he was climbing it. Here are a few new pictures.

The outside with new plant added, you can also see another on the opposite wall.

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/7589/dsc003164965617.jpg

The new hiding cave, it is smaller than the other one I have but it should fit him better now and when he out grows it I'll replace it.

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/2...3204995050.jpg

A shot of the entire setup now.

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/6899/dsc003144951301.jpg

And a few of him hanging out on the vine.

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/8...3134935520.jpg

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/4706/dsc003215010633.jpg

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/1...3235025231.jpg

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/7...3245037671.jpg

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/460/dsc003285051301.jpg

What do you guys think, I'm trying to improve it based on your suggestions.

Thanks.

Holy crap! I have that same plant in the top right.
The only thing I'd be worried about with the vine is due to the fact that they are terrestrial snakes. Just be careful that he doesn't take a spill up there, it's a long way down.

btw, how did you attach the vine to everything?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mrshawt

Having a UTH without a rheostat/thermostat is dangerous, especially without a thermometer to measure the temps.
Soil is not recommended as a substrate. Aspen, Repti-bark, paper towels, and newspaper are all good.
You'll want two hides - one for the hot/cool sides.
The climbing branches are not really necessary as bp's are terrestrial snakes for the most part.
And make sure you get digital hydros/therms, not analog.

Check this out, it has a lot of helpful info:
caresheet

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It's still nice to provide them with the option if convenient.

Nice setup by the way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mrshawt

Holy crap! I have that same plant in the top right.
The only thing I'd be worried about with the vine is due to the fact that they are terrestrial snakes. Just be careful that he doesn't take a spill up there, it's a long way down.

btw, how did you attach the vine to everything?

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The vine isn't actually attached, it is very ridged and sturdy, but you can bend to to whatever shape you want to I wrapped a small vine around a medium vine and basically bent it in half and twisted it a bit. I then separated it at the end and untwisted the small from the medium a bit. I then position it in the substrate like four legs basically and it holds itself in place. I think I may get a sticky cup hook to stick to the side of the glass and hold the vine up there. Right now it is fine but once he starts gaining weight I'm concerned he may cause it to fall down and a cup hook or something similar should prevent that.

I love the improvements. That is a beautiful set up that would be a lovely addition to any home IMO! Your snake is gorgeous too. Wow. I would live in that tank if I could fit ;)

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Originally Posted by N1GHTRA1N

The vine isn't actually attached, it is very ridged and sturdy, but you can bend to to whatever shape you want to I wrapped a small vine around a medium vine and basically bent it in half and twisted it a bit. I then separated it at the end and untwisted the small from the medium a bit. I then position it in the substrate like four legs basically and it holds itself in place. I think I may get a sticky cup hook to stick to the side of the glass and hold the vine up there. Right now it is fine but once he starts gaining weight I'm concerned he may cause it to fall down and a cup hook or something similar should prevent that.

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:gj: Good. Very nice looking.

I like the setup. If you hear your snake falling from time to time, lower the vine. The light will probably dry out the enclosure. Looks great! Keep us updated on any changes.

I'm not sure about the soil you've got in there... its a great and beautiful setup but I think that 1) replacing the soil will get expensive and annoying 2) its a substrate that could be ingested and cause problems 3) its hard to treat if your snake gets mites.

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Originally Posted by RoyalGuardian

I'm not sure about the soil you've got in there... its a great and beautiful setup but I think that 1) replacing the soil will get expensive and annoying 2) its a substrate that could be ingested and cause problems 3) its hard to treat if your snake gets mites.

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He's already addressed that. He has it all planned out.
(That wasn't meant to come out rude, but a couple other people have brought it up and I think he's got a reasonable solution.)

Do any of you suggest using a infrared heat light. I've read a few things online suggesting these are a good source of heat for Ball Pythons. I don't think I need it but I want to be sure.

I've also considered continuing to use the daylight bulb I have but install it in a Exo Terra incandescent fixture that glows in the dark when the light is off to product a moon glow.

What do you think about any of these?

Right now the highest temp I've seen in any spot in the terrarium is 89 degrees, most places in the terrarium are around 81-84. The lowest I recorded was at 76 degrees in complete darkness. I borrowed a laser pointer infrared thermometer and it is pretty acurate. The snake was around 82 degrees.

Light isn't really necessary for a bp to grow. Plus, bulbs just dry out the tank. If you absolutely have to use them to raise the ambient temps then do it, but rule of thumb is to avoid them at all costs as they create more problems in the husbandry.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mrshawt

Light isn't really necessary for a bp to grow. Plus, bulbs just dry out the tank. If you absolutely have to use them to raise the ambient temps then do it, but rule of thumb is to avoid them at all costs as they create more problems in the husbandry.

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Thanks. I've just ordered a Zilla Thermometer/Hygrometer digital unit. Once I get it all setup I'll determine if I need additional heating and I'm also going to compare a day with the current light I have versus one without the light on just too see if it makes a difference and if I can do without that one too.

I tried to feed him tonight but he didn't seem interested, I'm sure he is just getting use to his new home. I'm not going to handle him at all the next two days to get him more settled and then try to feed him again. I'm using a thawed fuzzy mouse, if he doesn't like it I may try a live one if I can get one.

He is crazy active today though, every time I leave the room for a while and come back 30-60 mins later he is in a new position. He's been hanging out on the vine for the past 2 hours or so. When I got home earlier today he was wrapped right around the new plant on the left side of my tank, pretty much at the top. I'm surprised he is into climbing so much. I was at the store I bought him at today looking for a digital meter and was told by the guy there that this snake loved climbing for the two days they had him before I bought him.

The Accurite might be a cheaper option for a therm/hygro. It's about $12, and can be found at Walmart, Home Depot, Lowes, etc. It has a probe, but also measures temps at the unit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mrshawt

The Accurite might be a cheaper option for a therm/hygro. It's about $12, and can be found at Walmart, Home Depot, Lowes, etc. It has a probe, but also measures temps at the unit.

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Already have it ordered. It was only $25 anyway so no big deal. It also has two probes, so I plan to use one on the warm side and one on the cool side.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by N1GHTRA1N

Not a good space for a chameleon, they really need screen enclosures since they need the air flow. Glass terrariums are a bad idea for a chameleon. Sometimes the reflections of themselves in the glass can also cause them to be stressed.

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I don't know anything about them, it was just a random thought... LOL.

Well I just successfully fed him for the first time. It was a bit of a battle though. He wouldn't eat a thawed out mouse, it didn't even interest him, no matter what I did. So I purchased a small mouse that was alive. He was very interested in the live prey and stuck it down (on the third strike) within a minute or so and began trying to eat it. The problem was that he tried swallowing it backwards and the legs were stuck on the outside of his jaws. He battled with this for well over an hour, twisting and turning and trying to swallow but it wasn't going anywhere. Everything when he let up a bit I was able to gently remove the mouse without harming the snake. I was very worried that this would mean he wouldn't eat now but once I held the mouse up head first and bounced him a little a few inches in front of the snake he struck and began to swallow. This time the entire mouse was swallowed in about 2 minutes.

The mouse wasn't as big around as the largest part of Duke's body so I heard that was the proper size but now that he had trouble swallowing I'm wondering if it was too big. I'm thinking it wasn't becuase I don't see any major bulges or anything in him, he only looks slightly fatter than before and most people wouldn't know he ate a mouse by looking at him.

Anyway I'm hoping everything is fine and he becomes a regular eater, but did I do the right thing removing the mouse and having him try again?

Thanks in advance.

My two bps climb everywhere! i got some branches everywhere and theyre always in them weird:P