Paramyxovirus

Has anyone had any dealings with this nasty stuff? I believe I may have a few ball pythons that may have it. I do have them QT. Some have been to the vets(a good one) and I have had 2 of them die in the last 2 Months.
HELP US PLEASE.
Marty

I haven't, but can you give us some more info? Symptoms, how long you've had them, when you got the affected snakes, whom you purchased them from, a time line of everything on your end, and anything else that might be important?

I purchased 16 normal adult females from Steve Ori at A Forgeten Realm back in December. A couple came in with what we thought was R I. So I got some baytrel and isolated the couple that came in sick. I had bought a lot of snakes esle where around the same time as I was just getting in to this, so I wasn't QT any of the other stuff. Around mid Januray I had one of the sick ones in qt die and had a necropsy done and lungs were full of crap. Had a culture done and came back as possibly psudemonous (how ever you spell it) In the mean time some of the other females came up sick and then a few males that were purchased somewhere else were getting sick. They have been breeding some of the now sick females. After the second one died we had a pathologest look at tissue samples and he thinks it is paramyxovirus. Wants fresh tissue samples to confirm. We have been treating with baytrel and amikacen. Not sure where to go from here.

Marty

If you've got paramyxo, I know that's not spelled correctly, your next trip should be to your freezer.

There is no treatment. There is no cure. There is the FACT of future transmission if you do not eliminate carriers.

Quarantine or face this exact scenario.

I'd do a search on forgotten realms over on the BOI. You'll probably want to be sitting down.

Everyone I have known to get it in their collection loses over 50% of their collection. Good luck. :gj:

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Originally Posted by Turbo Serpent

Everyone I have known to get it in their collection loses over 50% of their collection. Good luck. :gj:

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How many have you known to have this?

There was a long painful story a year or so ago, I believe the person's name was Jennifer, whose snakes had some disease and it just kept spreading through her collection and every one that got sick eventually died. Eventually she put the remaining snakes in the freezer to prevent possible transmission to any one else's collection. I do not remember for sure, but as soon as I saw the title of this thread, it reminded me of that story, and I think it may have been one of the things the vets thought was wrong with her snakes. I don't remember what the final diagnosis was, or even if there was one. So you might want to try to look up that story. I'm sure someone else will remember more details, or tell you I'm totally wrong about it having to do with paramyxovirus.

I do tend to trust what Wes (wilomn) says, and based on what he is saying, I would do everything I could ASAP to find out if it is paramyxovirus. Plus, if you have not already, get back with the person who sold you the snakes to warn them they may have it in their collection.

Always, always quarantine. Last summer/fall, we expanded our snake collection from 2 to 22. We were keeping snakes in 5 different rooms in our house, because we got snakes from different sources at different times, and did not want to risk the ones that were halfway through QT when we got more new ones. It was a little crazy, but we felt it was worth it.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

How many have you known to have this?

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Only 2 locals. One lost a pair of Pins and a spider, as well as a few female normals. :(

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Originally Posted by Turbo Serpent

Only 2 locals. One lost a pair of Pins and a spider, as well as a few female normals. :(

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Do you know where the animals that died came from?

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Do you know where the animals that died came from?

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Nope, just was told the story and about how it literally happened with no signs.

did some reading on this. apparently it can affect pretty much any vertebrate. there are strains for birds, just about everything and its pretty nasty stuff. its like RI with a serious kick in the junk. i hope for your sake this is not the case for you :(

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Originally Posted by Turbo Serpent

Nope, just was told the story and about how it literally happened with no signs.

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So, you're basically spreading rumors?

Was there a positive diagnosis?

There ARE signs.

Perhaps your friend was confused as to what exactly killed the snakes.

Or was it two friends?

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Originally Posted by wilomn

So, you're basically spreading rumors?

Was there a positive diagnosis?

There ARE signs.

Perhaps your friend was confused as to what exactly killed the snakes.

Or was it two friends?

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I am just sharing what I was told. And in order for it to be a rumor there has to be someone negatively affected by the story. I was simply sharing... sorry to hurt your feelings.

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Originally Posted by Turbo Serpent

I am just sharing what I was told. And in order for it to be a rumor there has to be someone negatively affected by the story. I was simply sharing... sorry to hurt your feelings.

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LOL.

Gotcha.

You're what, 14?

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Originally Posted by wilomn

LOL.

Gotcha.

You're what, 14?

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Wow...

the tail end of this thread makes me LOL

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Originally Posted by Turbo Serpent

I am just sharing what I was told. And in order for it to be a rumor there has to be someone negatively affected by the story. I was simply sharing... sorry to hurt your feelings.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dictionary

Rumor: a story or statement in general circulation without confirmation or certainty as to facts

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Not quite, and it's important that it be a fact not a rumor. It's a very serious thing to say someone had/has this in their collection.

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Originally Posted by AaronP

Not quite, and it's important that it be a fact not a rumor. It's a very serious thing to say someone had/has this in their collection.

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Well then because I was not there when the vet examined her snakes, disregard what I have been told, and what I said. And I wont ever speak such blasphemous lies again!

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Originally Posted by Turbo Serpent

Well then because I was not there when the vet examined her snakes, disregard what I have been told, and what I said. And I wont ever speak such blasphemous lies again!

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The blasphemy part is up to you but spreading unsubstantiated crap is pretty much lying which is pretty much stupid.

IF there's Paramyxo up there you should let other keepers know.

If you're just an attention seeking parasite, then by all means, continue on.

Guys,

I understand how serious the ramifications of illness like this in peoples collections can be, and the extreme damage unfounded allegations can do to someones livelyhood and reputation, but PLEASE try and keep it civil and avoid name calling.


dr del

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mpenny

I purchased 16 normal adult females from Steve Ori at A Forgeten Realm back in December. A couple came in with what we thought was R I. So I got some baytrel and isolated the couple that came in sick. I had bought a lot of snakes esle where around the same time as I was just getting in to this, so I wasn't QT any of the other stuff. Around mid Januray I had one of the sick ones in qt die and had a necropsy done and lungs were full of crap. Had a culture done and came back as possibly psudemonous (how ever you spell it) In the mean time some of the other females came up sick and then a few males that were purchased somewhere else were getting sick. They have been breeding some of the now sick females. After the second one died we had a pathologest look at tissue samples and he thinks it is paramyxovirus. Wants fresh tissue samples to confirm. We have been treating with baytrel and amikacen. Not sure where to go from here.

Marty

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The pseudomonas bacteria could be an opportunistic infection brought on by an immune system compromised by another health issue.

Pseudomonas and bacterial lung infections are relatively common in snakes afflicted with OPMV.

However that's only a potential indicator. Pseudomonas are also seen in secondary infections associated with IBD, crypto, septicemia, scale rot, stomatitis and even with non-pathogen related stress issues (shipping, dehydration, mites, poor conditions).

In other words - the presence of pseudomonas bacteria can be expected in many illness scenarios.

Best of luck.

The last culture on the snake that died wouldn't grow any bacteria. Yet her lung was full of snotty mucous. The lung wall was thicker than normal. I am definitly moving some of my snakes around now.
Marty

I believe Paramyxo can only be identified by a liver biopsy, which can be falsely negative or by necropsy, which is 100% yes or no.

Sounds like your vet may not be up to date on that virus.

Ask him/her and make sure you're being properly taken care of. This could not only wipe you out but anyone who got anything from the same people you did.

This is NOT something to take lightly.

My vet came highly recommend. We didn't think about para viris when he sent a sample to the pathologist. If I lose another one the whole thing will probbly go to the pathologist. I don't know where to reasurch Stevr ori at forgetten realm. Thanks for any help you can provide.
marty

I'm not saying your vet is bad, I don't know if he is.

You went on a recommendation. Cool, but who recommended him? Nevermind, that is of no consequence for the moment.

If you lose another one, don't freeze it, put it in the refrigerator until it goes to the vet.

Ask him if he is up on the Paramyxo virus and tests for it.

Register at www.faunaclassifieds.com.

Go to the search function and enter steve ori and/or forgotten realms.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mpenny

Has anyone had any dealings with this nasty stuff? I believe I may have a few ball pythons that may have it. I do have them QT. Some have been to the vets(a good one) and I have had 2 of them die in the last 2 Months.
HELP US PLEASE.
Marty

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I got an emerald tree boa a few years back from Tim Bowles currently of Snowballs Ball Pythons and that animal had it. I was lucky enough to open the package in my driveway to show my UPS guy and saw the animal was almost dead so it never entered my collection.

The snake was very emaciated looking in the first half of the body and it's head was sunken in. The last half of the body was bloated because he injected it with saline solution to make it appear filled out so I couldn't say that it was as emaciated looking as the front half. She declined very quickly and it was very sad to see such a beautiful animal go.

A necropsy was performed and the University in Gainsville Florida came back with paramyxovirus. The lungs were bloody, the animal had septicemia, coccidia, liver failure, and a bunch of other stuff too. They are the number one facility to go to for this disease and they know their stuff.

This is what Paramyxovirus can do to a perfectly healthy animal.

Before
http://photos.imageevent.com/ghirept...Female%201.jpg

After
http://photos.imageevent.com/ghirept...ead%20shot.jpg

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Originally Posted by wilomn

I believe Paramyxo can only be identified by a liver biopsy, which can be falsely negative or by necropsy, which is 100% yes or no.

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This is really unfortunate, because I know in human medicine most viruses can be grown and identified just from swabs (patient still alive, mind you). Animal medicine lags behind in so many ways, especially exotics. I guess there's no routine method that vets can access to identify reptile viruses - researchers are able to grow and identify them, however. Which is so very frustrating for people in this type of situation.

Good luck and my sympathies to you - Paramyxoviruses spread like wildfire, just like others in this thread have mentioned!

(And sorry for the mostly useless post, virology is one of the subjects I love to nerd out about!)