Help w/genetic possibilities??

Ok here is my mystery going on at the moment.. Some of you may have seen my previous posts to sell my 1.0-07' Pastel breeder... I also have an 03' "normal" female..

The mystery began when these two bred and produced this last season. My female laid a clutch of 5 and every single one was pastel. With most having the brightest yellow ive ever seen along their top-side. Most have jet black markings that do not fade. An orange dusting along the sides and pure white belly's. Ok these could be reffered as high yellows or lemons or maybe something else but it gets stranger.. Half of them have blue to blue?grey eyes.. The others have the greenish/tan color of any good pastel like the father does.

Ive spoken to my local herp shop owners (private familt owned) and they think the babies are beautiful. They have seen them 3 different times now for comparisons and they are still amazed at how well they are holding the color.. Plus the eye color..

Ive spoken to Ralph Davis about this as well and he too doesnt seem to know quite what to say other than to hold back and breed back to solve this mystery. He also said my babies yellow top-side seem to "glow".

My questions are.. My female was originally an import. I had her vetted for parasites etc, back when i got her in may of 03'. She look normal but i was wondering for awhile if she's possibly a YB.. Even still, how could i get 100% Pastels? The blue eyes?

Can anyone tell me if its possible for my female to be het for something and what it is she could possibly be het for? What else carries the blue eye gene? I know of mojave's but my girl is not that. I am definately holding back and breeding back between offspring x mother and offspring x offspring. But until then.. Any ideas??

I'll include a couple pics of my female. You can clearely see she does not look that special. I know its sometimes hard to tell a YB from a regular as well. Does anyone think shes a YB? These are current pictures..

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l2...1242957402.jpg

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l2...1242957327.jpg

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l2...1242957293.jpg

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l2...1242957340.jpg

And this one is the only picture taken with a high quality digital camera. In it you can see she has a metallic irredescence to her after she sheds. This pic shows her true colors the best and was taken last summer 08' with my pastel.

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l2...ure010-3-1.jpg

where are the pics of the babies?

if Ralph cant answer it i know i can and allot of other bp net users... I'd say seek out some more experts... you might have a gold mine on your hands!!! good luck

They are terrible pics that do not show the color of them well. Taken with a camera phone that "reds" everything out. But i'll post some so you all can see. The real question is.. How did i get a full clutch of pastels from this combo? I know i probably wont know until i start breeding back but any suggestions would be helpfull..

At 10 days old (male)
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l2...1241981032.jpg
AT about 2 week old (male)
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l2...1241980988.jpg
At one month old. Largest to the right with the highest contrast is a female.
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l2...1242957170.jpg
Top left is a small male with pale color. Top right is the female with highest contrast. Bottom right is a male with blue eyes.
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l2...1242676055.jpg

Personally, I don't think I'd part with the father until I knew better what was going on if I thought I had produced something interesting.

As far as how you got a full clutch of pastels.... it happens. That part is not surprising at all.

Post some good, quality pictures of the babies, and also some quality pictures of the normal pastel eyes and the eyes you think are different. As far as hatching 5/5 pastels. you probably just got lucky on the odds. If about half of the babies have different eyes and a different look to them, it's possible that the female has something genetic going on, but it wouldn't have anything to do with making all of the babies pastels, and I can't see anything in the pictures you've posted so far.

they look like average quality pastels by the pics. (not great, not bad)

Pastels have green eyes. borrow a good camera from somebody and take some better pics so we can see what your talking about.

No updated pics?

I think you got my pastel babies. A couple years back I got a gravid normal girl back from a breeding loan to a pastel. All 5 of her babies where normal! That's only a 1 in 32 bad luck so someone had to get the 1 in 32 good luck, right? Mine where also all males for a combined 1 in 1024 bad luck if you want to look at it that way, lol.

Your's are very nice looking though. Maybe mom helped with that in some single gene way or maybe dad looked that nice as a baby. Did you breed the same pair this year? Looking forward to seeing updated better pics.

Ok here are recent pics of the hatchlings and the Pastel father taken last night. I just dont see how these can be your average pastels. The female clearly has the green eyes but the males eyes seem to be more of a blue/grey. Its hard to tell at this point but their markings and color are amazing in my eyes. This is after many feedings and 2 sheds. The father also has great coloring considering he will be 3 yrs old this yr.. So please just give some more of your advice if you think i may have anything.. By the way, the babies have clean and clear bellies as well.. These pics were taken last night with the newest model Fuji 12x optical w duel image stabilizer and excellent macro mode.. These are what my snakes look like..

Here is the father 1.0-07 Pastel
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l2.../MsPics012.jpg


This is the 0.1-09 with normal green pastel eyes.
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l2...fMsPics007.jpg

Here is the same 0.1-09
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l2.../MsPics002.jpg

This is the 1.0-09. His eyes look different to me.
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l2.../MsPics006.jpg

This is their mother. 0.1-03 "regular"
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l2.../MsPics009.jpg

Im beginning to think i should hold onto the father. I have a feeling there is a white snake in there somewhere. Wether it be in the babies or the parents.

It looks like a regular pastel to me, a nice one at that.:)

I have the feeling they're just your average pastel. Since the mother is dark, they're going to be dark and therefore have the potential to be of poorer quality. The father is of average quality. My male pastel has silver eyes instead of the normal green. His belly is also not clear, he has green speckles all over. Some of his individual scales on his sides are black tipped and his offspring carry that on.

Just because you got 5 out of 5 pastels doesn't mean a thing except for being lucky. Each egg has a 50% chance of having either a pastel or a normal. They could all have normals or could all have pastels, OR could be a mix of both. I had a clutch where 4 out of 6 were pastels. Not really a big deal, just the hand you were dealt.

I have a normal adult female who looks like an Enchi, but she's not. She's very light, banded, clear belly, and green eyes. She also has the peach colored scales coming up from her belly. She's being bred to an Enchi this coming season so I can make some high quality Enchis(not those crappy ones you see that look like normals even up close).

My Pastel male:
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u...PICT0020-1.jpg
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u...PICT0031-3.jpg

His kids from 2 different moms.
Darker mom(this girl is still bright yellow and probably about 1000g or more now):
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u...PICT0046-1.jpg
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u...y/PICT0048.jpg

Lighter mom(Frankykeno has this girl)
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u...PICT0016-3.jpg
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u...PICT0015-1.jpg
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u...PICT0009-9.jpg

Well, ive ruled out the possibility of the female in question being a sable. I do still think she may be a YB. I think im just going to breed her to a proven YB this year to try to prove that out. The male hatchling i originally held back was sold to a friend who desperately wanted him with a breed-back agreement. Im actually disappointed i didnt get any belly shot of him before i sold him. So now my plan is go visit him and get some new pictures of him with belly shots to see if he has the visible YB markings.

Since he was so much brighter than the little female with a whiter top lip & much more blushing. Plus im being told he is retaining his yellow so far. Only seeing him in person & getting pictures will prove that to me tho.

The female hold-back i have now looks like a black and orange snake. She has all but lost that glowing yellow she had as a hatchling. Now at 200 grams she looks like she will look like an average pastel with almost no top blushing.

I finally got a very good digital camera and have posted new pics of her on my myspace page. As for the mother. She is in blue right now. Within the week i will take her outside for some new pictures of her and try to capture all the color (yellow) she has in her sides as well as her belly markings. Then i'll try to get those pics on here for some more opinions from you guys.