[PLEASE HELP ME!]Do jungle carpet pythons express neurological problems?

Do jungle carpet pythons express neurological problems? also, what does it mean if a jungle carpet python is a sibling of a jaguar carpet python?

Hi,

I found these using the forum searh button - hopefully they answer some of your questions;

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...light=neuro%2A

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...light=neuro%2A

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...light=neuro%2A

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...light=neuro%2A

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...light=neuro%2A

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...light=neuro%2A


Not all of them will have relevant information but at least one of them does.


dr del

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Originally Posted by coolguypat27

Do jungle carpet pythons express neurological problems? also, what does it mean if a jungle carpet python is a sibling of a jaguar carpet python?

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Why don't you explain what is going on that you ask this question, any animal can express neurological issues for a number of reasons. Jags do exhibit neurological problems associated with there genes, and it is purported that Sibs do also. This is a working theory and the jury is still way out on it. A jag breeding yields normals and jags out of the clutch the normals are called Sibs as they do not carry the jag mutation. what you seem to have if I read this write is a Sib from a jungle X Jag pairing. Hope that makes sense to you again I would like to know the full story.

Chuck

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Originally Posted by Chuck

Why don't you explain what is going on that you ask this question, any animal can express neurological issues for a number of reasons. Jags do exhibit neurological problems associated with there genes, and it is purported that Sibs do also. This is a working theory and the jury is still way out on it. A jag breeding yields normals and jags out of the clutch the normals are called Sibs as they do not carry the jag mutation. what you seem to have if I read this write is a Sib from a jungle X Jag pairing. Hope that makes sense to you again I would like to know the full story.

Chuck

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Sorry for not fully explaining, i don't have a carpet python, YET. Im planning on purchasing a baby jaguar carpet python from a reptile expo on june 20. the thing is, ive been reading up on many cases of neuro problems with jaguars and sibs. How would i i know that im not buying a sib or any other cross % breed? How would i know that the jungle i want to get is 100%pure jungle? i know a lot of breeders that won't tell you the truth and they just tell you what you want to hear. so that's my concern.
how much would a baby jungle carpet go for from a breeder?
thanks for the concern.

Sincerely,

Patrick.

Regarding neuro issues, Jungle Carpets do not display neuro signs, at least not as it pertains to the jag gene. A few people have claimed to see Jag Siblings display neuro signs, but I don't think this is commonly accepted.

As far as getting a pure Jungle, it can be really hard to get a jungle without some integration somewhere along the line, whether the breeder knows it or not. You can avoid being conned by an unscrupulous breeder though by sticking with a breeder that has a reputation at stake. He'll be able to show you the parents so that you can have an idea of what it may turn out like. The most important thing though is to get what you like.

Oh yeah, they range from about $125-$500, and up for really nice specimens. 200-300 should get you a nice one.

it should be mentioned that unless you are REALLY REALLY familiar with how carpets act, you will not be able to notice 'neuro' symptoms associated with the jaguar morph in the vast majority of animals... for many, there's simply a placebo effect. they think something's wrong because they know there CAN be an issue.

here is a jag sibling and associated neuro issue. this guy ties himself in knots when stressed. otherwise he's fine and dandy, normal behavior.

this vid shows some of the worst of the worst. this snake is now up to hoppers, 2 a week, and is growing well, shed a few days ago.

YouTube - jungle carpet is sick

Quote:

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Originally Posted by coolguypat27

Sorry for not fully explaining, i don't have a carpet python, YET. Im planning on purchasing a baby jaguar carpet python from a reptile expo on june 20. the thing is, ive been reading up on many cases of neuro problems with jaguars and sibs. How would i i know that im not buying a sib or any other cross % breed? How would i know that the jungle i want to get is 100%pure jungle? i know a lot of breeders that won't tell you the truth and they just tell you what you want to hear. so that's my concern.
how much would a baby jungle carpet go for from a breeder?
thanks for the concern.

Sincerely,

Patrick.

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Patrick

So let me see if I get this correct you want a jungle Jag or are you looking to buy a Jag and a Jungle carpet. In regards to you knowing you are not buying a Sib you should be able to tell just by looking at the animal. The issue of nuro in jags, I think you have to be ok with getting a nuro animal. You could buy an animal that shows no signs of nuro, but it may not stay that way. It is sorta thought that all jags to some degree have nuro issues. That said as Colin said you may not even notice it if you get an animal that has a mild case of it. If you want a Jag you should get it. I think if you ask people who own them they will tell you they are fantastic animals to own.
SO I looked up the shows on the 20th and it looks like its in Michigan is that the show you are going to go to. If so I know Colin is a Michigan guy maybe he can help you out, not sure if he is going to go. I really think you need to go with a trustworthy Morelia breeder, which may require that you buy it off the net. I think though that all your concerns will be addressed and questions answered with a good breeder, as they should be.


Chuck

where the show in michigan? is it just the taylor show or a real expo?

ouch... so taylor isn't an expo?

i wouldn't call it an expo, you can walk around and see everything in about 15 minutes mayb less. even when i do go, talk to some of the breeders, go back and take a 2nd look at all the cool stuff, still only there 45 minutes to an hour tops.

I posted this in another thread with the video, but will post here as well in case people look here first.

That video honestly reminds me more of pythons I have seen in respiratory distress (RI problems) than it does of the spiders and jags I have seen spinning. If I were to guess from that video alone, I would say your carpet has an RI, or is experiencing some other type of pain in its mid-body section.

I would like to know more detail about this animal directly from the person that owns it. Like, did that just occur one day, or is it still occurring? Any other info about how the little guy/girl is doing now? That just doesn't look neuro to me because the animal seems to have good head control, the spastic movements seem to be coming from the mid-body section instead...but I very well could be wrong.

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Originally Posted by bhmorrill

I posted this in another thread with the video, but will post here as well in case people look here first.

That video honestly reminds me more of pythons I have seen in respiratory distress (RI problems) than it does of the spiders and jags I have seen spinning. If I were to guess from that video alone, I would say your carpet has an RI, or is experiencing some other type of pain in its mid-body section.

I would like to know more detail about this animal directly from the person that owns it. Like, did that just occur one day, or is it still occurring? Any other info about how the little guy/girl is doing now? That just doesn't look neuro to me because the animal seems to have good head control, the spastic movements seem to be coming from the mid-body section instead...but I very well could be wrong.

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the animal in the youtube vid belongs to me, was purchased at a show, and only expresses this behavior when handled. it has done this for the few months that i've had it, and eats fine, no ailments. it eats well, up to small adult mice, and is growing quickly. i'm not going to kill it, as it is healthy and eats on it's own (live), but i'm not going to pass it on either. this snake has turned me away from carpets in general, i don't plan on getting any more.

http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/t...enseCMB092.jpg
http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/t...enseCMB093.jpg

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Originally Posted by Ben Biscy

this snake has turned me away from carpets in general, i don't plan on getting any more.

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that's too bad, considering it has nothing to do with being a carpet most likely... they really are wonderful pythons.

correction; the animal is always off it it's movements, but the flipping and spastic rolling only occurs when stressed. so, you can see it when he's happy, just not as pronounced, as he's right side up. he ties him self into knots, then unwinds, very odd all around. i'm just glad that he's healthy and eating/growing.

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Originally Posted by Colin Vestrand

that's too bad, considering it has nothing to do with being a carpet most likely... they really are wonderful pythons.

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i know, but it's more a personal thing. i'm not knocking them, and i still find them interesting. i just don't want any more, at least not right now. i'd rather raise this one and see what happens, if it grows out of it to a certain extent. ironically, this guy is one of my favorites in the collection. i've gotten used to the quirk, and the animal seems to be getting used to me as well.

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Originally Posted by Ben Biscy

this snake has turned me away from carpets in general, i don't plan on getting any more.

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While I can understand you feeling this way, let me reassure you that this is VERY weird!!! I have personally cared after hundreds of carpets, and have been around hundreds more at other people's facilities and at shows and I can honestly say that the only time I have seen one act like this was when it was about to pass away from an RI. As others have said, this does look somewhat similar to what jags seem to have going on, but in normal carpets I haven't ever seen this. So, there are plenty of good healthy carpets out there, and hopefully if you let the breeder know what has happened with this one he/she would work with you on it. This is very odd.

Further, have you noticed any correlation to this behavior besides handling? Like, does it happen more often when being handled either right after eating or shedding, or does it happen pretty consistently when being handled irregardless of other variables? I am just wondering if it has chronic stomach pain or something else like that. The other thing it could be is some type of neurological problem that is affecting it lower down the vertebral column than we see in jags. With jags it seems to be high up in the neck region, where this (if it is a neuro problem) seems to be affecting him/her closer to mid-body.

Irregardless of it all, I am very sorry that you have had a bad experience with a carpet. If you are interested in giving a carpet another try, PM me and maybe we can work something out to where we can get you another carpet at little to no cost. If you are interested I will talk it over with my partner and see what we can do. Carpets are GREAT animals and I would really like to see you give it another try.

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Originally Posted by bhmorrill

While I can understand you feeling this way, let me reassure you that this is VERY weird!!! I have personally cared after hundreds of carpets, and have been around hundreds more at other people's facilities and at shows and I can honestly say that the only time I have seen one act like this was when it was about to pass away from an RI. As others have said, this does look somewhat similar to what jags seem to have going on, but in normal carpets I haven't ever seen this. So, there are plenty of good healthy carpets out there, and hopefully if you let the breeder know what has happened with this one he/she would work with you on it. This is very odd.

Further, have you noticed any correlation to this behavior besides handling? Like, does it happen more often when being handled either right after eating or shedding, or does it happen pretty consistently when being handled irregardless of other variables? I am just wondering if it has chronic stomach pain or something else like that. The other thing it could be is some type of neurological problem that is affecting it lower down the vertebral column than we see in jags. With jags it seems to be high up in the neck region, where this (if it is a neuro problem) seems to be affecting him/her closer to mid-body.

Irregardless of it all, I am very sorry that you have had a bad experience with a carpet. If you are interested in giving a carpet another try, PM me and maybe we can work something out to where we can get you another carpet at little to no cost. If you are interested I will talk it over with my partner and see what we can do. Carpets are GREAT animals and I would really like to see you give it another try.

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the behavior is a constant, at best it looks like confusion. there doesn't seem to be any type of pain or problems, it has a smooth body, digest properly with regular stools, no kinks or deformities. the problem resembles an extremely bad wobble or spin, and affects the entire body from head to tail. flipping and knotting, rolling and spinning are normal for this guy/girl (not comfortable sexing this one yet, don't want to hurt it). i was scared to death at first, but after several weeks of keeping a close eye on it, there seems to be nothing wrong besides what's between the ears so to speak. it's a beautiful animal, and is getting brighter with each shed, and feeds readily and regularly. no sign at all of RI, though i though it might be ibd when i first discovered the problem. while it's not really gotten any better, it hasn't gotten worse, and i can find nothing else wrong with it.

i'll stop relating this one with other nuero issue threads, esp if you breeders think this is a fluke. i'll also take another video if you'd like to see current behavior. just let me know.

(edit) also, thank you for the offer, that is above and beyond. you've earned my respect, and it's good to know there are still good people out there! i have little hope of finding the vendor i bought mine from, though i'm going to try to find him at the columbia show this weekend (which is where the animal was purchased, at the previous show). i'm not going to return the animal, but i would like to say something to him about it, and find out if it was something going on from the very beginning. it's possible that the snake was overheated or injured early on. i regret misplacing the contact info. if i ever decide to get another carpet, you're at the top of my list.