I need help with this spider!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is this what they mean by a wobbly spider??? I am a little upset cause I was never told he was like this and he was sold to me anyways! Would he still be able to breed succesfully? Why is he like that?? Is it only common in Spiders???
http://s711.photobucket.com/albums/w...rent=006-2.flv
Please give me all opinions and answers you can! :confused:

Yes, it's fairly common for spider balls to have anywhere from a hardly noticeable to a severe 'wobble.'

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Originally Posted by LizardofOzz

Yes, it's fairly common for spider balls to have anywhere from a hardly noticeable to a severe 'wobble.'

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Will he still be able to breed? And did my video work? I am very upset that I was not told about this before hand!!!!!:mad:

Wobbles are a trait for spiders, as stated before it can be unnoticeable to severe. It will not affect breeding.

Your video worked. Honestly with a wobble like that how did you not notice something before you made your purchase? I have heard that the spins are a little worse while feeding but that is a little extreme.

First of all, yes, he should have told you that the snake had such bad spins. But secondly, you should have done enough research to know to ask specifically and determine if the snake was for you.

As far as breeding goes... you can try and see what happens. But I personally wouldn't want to pass that particular gene on...

He should be able to breed fine, if it is a wobble. Usually I think wobbles are just in their head portion, and breeding is more posterior controlled. lol. However, yours looks more than a head wobble. I would watch out for a more serious neurological problem.

I'm not highly knowledgable, but you should be able to see the wobble as he's moving. Unless it is a real slight case, and he only does it while he's eating. I wouldn't disturb him so much during feeding time. You don't want to scare him into a regurge. Have you tried watching from a distance? Do you get the same result?

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Originally Posted by stratus_020202

He should be able to breed fine, if it is a wobble. Usually I think wobbles are just in their head portion, and breeding is more posterior controlled. lol. However, yours looks more than a head wobble. I would watch out for a more serious neurological problem.

I'm not highly knowledgable, but you should be able to see the wobble as he's moving. Unless it is a real slight case, and he only does it while he's eating. I wouldn't disturb him so much during feeding time. You don't want to scare him into a regurge. Have you tried watching from a distance? Do you get the same result?

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ok i am gonna answer all questions in this quote. I did research this before hand as I have another spider and she is fine. I did also ask him if there were anything wrong with the three snakes I was purchasing! And he said no! He did seem to act weird while holding him like he kept trying to go upside down. But did seem really out of the ordinary but a little but I blew it off. This was his first feeding and yes I did watch from afar on the first small mouse and got the same results! And taped the second small mouse with my cell. I think that is all the questions. Oh I should also mention that mites were never mentioned either!!! And I got him through only seeing pics of it. So I think that is all now.

How long have you had him?

Stress from a new environment (or shipping) can cause the wobbling to be more intense, or even excitement at feeding time.

How does he behave "normally" since he's been with you?

If he's pretty new, let him have time to settle in with you longer and let him get used to his new home, and it should tone down. It's possible that he DIDN'T behave that way for his breeder, and the new home adjustments brought it out.

Have you contacted the seller with your concerns?

How long have you had him?

Robin beat me to it :D

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Originally Posted by rabernet

How long have you had him?

Stress from a new environment (or shipping) can cause the wobbling to be more intense, or even excitement at feeding time.

How does he behave "normally" since he's been with you?

If he's pretty new, let him have time to settle in with you longer and let him get used to his new home, and it should tone down. It's possible that he DIDN'T behave that way for his breeder, and the new home adjustments brought it out.

Have you contacted the seller with your concerns?

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I just got him today but he was brought to me buy the sellers daughter and I was told his feeding schedule is friday and the trip wasn't all that far so i figured i would keep him on his feeding schedule. But i didn't know that a change could bring out the behavior more. And i did email the seller and am waiting to hear back from him. So I will let him settle in and maybe it will get less noticeable.

He's really beautiful by-the-way. Hopefully she'll settle down for you. I love the whiteness on her. I have my fingers crossed for you!!

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Originally Posted by BLong7211

I just got him today but he was brought to me buy the sellers daughter and I was told his feeding schedule is friday and the trip wasn't all that far so i figured i would keep him on his feeding schedule. But i didn't know that a change could bring out the behavior more. And i did email the seller and am waiting to hear back from him. So I will let him settle in and maybe it will get less noticeable.

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I think it was too much excitement for one day. If the seller says that they didn't observe that behavior - or at least that extreme, I'd consider that (unless you simply don't trust them).

Even with it being a Friday feeding, I probably would have given him a full week to settle in and offer food NEXT Friday.

Let him settle in - don't be alarmed if you see him twisting a bit when exploring the top of his cage/tub in particular. Mine all did some form of losing their balance and falling over backwards when they first came home, and with more weight on them, none of them really display any of that behavior.

It's VERY disconcerting the first time you witness it in person. I would disturb him as little as possible for the next week and allow him time to get used to a new home. Even a short drive can be a little stressful to them.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

I think it was too much excitement for one day. If the seller says that they didn't observe that behavior - or at least that extreme, I'd consider that (unless you simply don't trust them).

Even with it being a Friday feeding, I probably would have given him a full week to settle in and offer food NEXT Friday.

Let him settle in - don't be alarmed if you see him twisting a bit when exploring the top of his cage/tub in particular. Mine all did some form of losing their balance and falling over backwards when they first came home, and with more weight on them, none of them really display any of that behavior.

It's VERY disconcerting the first time you witness it in person. I would disturb him as little as possible for the next week and allow him time to get used to a new home. Even a short drive can be a little stressful to them.

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Ok I just got a reply from the guy I got him and the other 2 from and I have to say that I was really surprised with what he said! You be the judge!
Bryan,
He's been like that since I got him. After talking to tons of big breeder they all say that 99% of the spiders out there have some wobble to different degrees. I didn't mention it because it wasn't a big deal to me. I can understand your concern. If you want to cancel the trade? I have no problem with that. I want you to be 100% happy. I should have mentioned it but like I said I was told it's not a big deal and that some that have the real bad wobble throw totally normal babies and some perfect spiders throw whole clutches of wobblers. As far as I know it doesn't affect quality of life and that male never turned down a meal for me. But like I said if you want to trade back I'm fine with it. Just this time I doubt I'll be able to get my daughter to drive back up there. But the weather is fine for shipping. I'll even let you keep the baby, and if you want to keep the pastel that's fine too. Whatever you want that will make you feel comfortable.
I think that this was an awesome gesture on his part to want my 100% satisfaction!! He really is one of the good guys! And by the way I turned down his offer to give him back! I am keeping them all!! My wife thinks the spider is cute! LOL :banana:

I have a couple of spiders and combos of all different ages. I can tell you that the wobble thing is very different for every animal and even varies from day to day.

Here are a few things to consider.

1: Over time the animal may lose some of the more extreme wobbling attributes, and then again it might not. You need to ask yourself is this something I can deal with?

2: I wont go in to the "all spiders" wobble debate but I will say I own my fair share and can tell you the odds of getting one that Never wobbles is slim and none. So the chance that if you replace that one that the new one will wobble is 99.995%. Will it be to that degree..maybe..maybe not. It might be worse due to the stress the enviroment change.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

I have a couple of spiders and combos of all different ages. I can tell you that the wobble thing is very different for every animal and even varies from day to day.

Here are a few things to consider.

1: Over time the animal may lose some of the more extreme wobbling attributes, and then again it might not. You need to ask yourself is this something I can deal with?

2: I wont go in to the "all spiders" wobble debate but I will say I own my fair share and can tell you the odds of getting one that Never wobbles is slim and none. So the chance that if you replace that one that the new one will wobble is 99.995%. Will it be to that degree..maybe..maybe not. It might be worse due to the stress the enviroment change.

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Thanks for your input!

i've said it before and i'll say it again. Spiders are like little retarded snakes and i just cant help but love em. I have one that wobbles and spins just like that when she's eating. I think it gives her character, as long as its not dangerous to my snake it doesn't bother me at all.

if you dont want her ill take her!! :gj:

do they pass these retard genes on to bees?

First, congrats on your pickups! Second, the wobble is something that I was aware of before I got my spider but the first time I saw it in person my stomach dropped to the floor. For the first few weeks I told myself "I'm not going to breed this guy in the future" but as he got settled his spin(my guy corkscrews) became less frequent. I will be breeding him in the future as I do like bee's. Also, I like the response you received from the breeder and I'm glad you decided to keep him. :gj:

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Originally Posted by wuldier

do they pass these retard genes on to bees?

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Yes, the spider spin/wobble is passed on to any morph with the spider gene. Bumble, honey, killer, etc...

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Originally Posted by Jsh

Yes, the spider spin/wobble is passed on to any morph with the spider gene. Bumble, honey, killer, etc...

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wow that blows!

who pays 3500 bucks for a killer bee that is retarded?

someone somewhere had to of messed up these morphs, passed on bad genes with bad selective breeding!

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Originally Posted by Jsh

First, congrats on your pickups! Second, the wobble is something that I was aware of before I got my spider but the first time I saw it in person my stomach dropped to the floor. For the first few weeks I told myself "I'm not going to breed this guy in the future" but as he got settled his spin(my guy corkscrews) became less frequent. I will be breeding him in the future as I do like bee's. Also, I like the response you received from the breeder and I'm glad you decided to keep him. :gj:

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Thanks! I thought that he offered to let me return all my purchases was pretty courages and outgoing for him to do! He even told me in a later email that if at anytime i am unsure of him he will glady take him back! He is a really nice guy! And I am going to keep him! Like I said earlier my wife thinks that he is cute when he does that! LOL But the mite thing is kinda bothering me cause I never had to deal with it before and I have 4 other snakes to watch out for! I bought mite off asap and started treatments as soon as I got home but I am unsure of how to know for sure that they are gone? Can you help me with the mite thing?

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Originally Posted by wuldier

wow that blows!

who pays 3500 bucks for a killer bee that is retarded?

someone somewhere had to of messed up these morphs, passed on bad genes with bad selective breeding!

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From what I remember reading the first spider imported had the "wobble/spin" problem.

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Originally Posted by Buttons

From what I remember reading the first spider imported had the "wobble/spin" problem.

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ok but where did it all start? africa? someone breed it?

its like breeding a dog with HD, genetics will carry over, its why bad hipped dogs are culled.

I'm really glad everything worked out for you in the end and that the breeder was a good guy. :gj:

Again, to repeat what a lot of people said, it shouldn't cause any problems. When we go our first spider we housed her in a boaphile cage that is 30" x 30" x 18" (rough guess) and she seemed to corkscrew a lot and also seemed stressed. I decided the higher cage wasn't a good thing so we moved her to a drawer in a rack that is only 6" high with lots of hides. It seemed to help. She will corkscrew slightly when shes out and about (I always keep a good hold of her!) but doesn't while feeding anymore.

Good luck and best wishes.

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Originally Posted by BLong7211

Thanks! I thought that he offered to let me return all my purchases was pretty courages and outgoing for him to do! He even told me in a later email that if at anytime i am unsure of him he will glady take him back! He is a really nice guy! And I am going to keep him! Like I said earlier my wife thinks that he is cute when he does that! LOL But the mite thing is kinda bothering me cause I never had to deal with it before and I have 4 other snakes to watch out for! I bought mite off asap and started treatments as soon as I got home but I am unsure of how to know for sure that they are gone? Can you help me with the mite thing?

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I forgot about the mites and that sucks. I've been lucky enough to have never had mites so I'm not going to give you advise which I'm not sure of. I do have a can of Provent a mite that I treat my quarantine cage with before a new comer arrives. I would search treating mites on the forum,
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...Treating+Mites
Heres a quick one I found on PAM. Hope that helps you!

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Originally Posted by wuldier

ok but where did it all start? africa? someone breed it?

its like breeding a dog with HD, genetics will carry over, its why bad hipped dogs are culled.

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The first spider was wild caught, NOT bred. Unfortunately it most likely will always be connected to the gene. Its NOT something that is fatal or debilitating. I haven't heard of a spider with a wobble so bad that it had to be euthanized. Maybe someone else has?

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Originally Posted by Jsh

I forgot about the mites and that sucks. I've been lucky enough to have never had mites so I'm not going to give you advise which I'm not sure of. I do have a can of Provent a mite that I treat my quarantine cage with before a new comer arrives. I would search treating mites on the forum,
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...Treating+Mites
Heres a quick one I found on PAM. Hope that helps you!

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I have never had mites either and I have had a few snakes before and no I am kinda in the dark and worried!

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Originally Posted by jsmorphs2

The first spider was wild caught, NOT bred. Unfortunately it most likely will always be connected to the gene. Its NOT something that is fatal or debilitating. I haven't heard of a spider with a wobble so bad that it had to be euthanized. Maybe someone else has?

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hrmmmm, there is no way you can say they are as good off as a snake w/o the tardness.

and whos to tell if they really are suffering in some kind of way?

i still wanna know why killer bees are so valuable yet, retarded..

Im just gonna throw out there that no he should not be bred at all as we are trying to make spiders stop wobbling which will probally never happen but by breeding a wobbly one it makes the blood line weaker just as inbreeding does.

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Originally Posted by jere000

Im just gonna throw out there that no he should not be bred at all as we are trying to make spiders stop wobbling which will probally never happen but by breeding a wobbly one it makes the blood line weaker just as inbreeding does.

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ye man, nice darts, this is what i was saying in previous post.

and i was explaining to a friend here at work that im gonna buy "Good" ones and keep breeding only good ones and try breed this out of them.

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Originally Posted by wuldier

hrmmmm, there is no way you can say they are as good off as a snake w/o the tardness.

and whos to tell if they really are suffering in some kind of way?

i still wanna know why killer bees are so valuable yet, retarded..

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First of all they are NOT retarded. I've posted before on my thoughts about it in the past - I'll see if I can't dig it up - I believe it's actually an equilibrium problem that expresses itself to varying degrees (sort of like virtigo).

If you don't want to work with them, then don't. It's something that troubles you. Nothing wrong with that.

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Originally Posted by wuldier

ye man, nice darts, this is what i was saying in previous post.

and i was explaining to a friend here at work that im gonna buy "Good" ones and keep breeding only good ones and try breed this out of them.

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You can't breed it out of them. Non-wobblers (those that have a barely detectable one) can and do throw train wrecks. Train wrecks can and do throw "non-wobblers". Every single spider breeder before you has had aspirations of breeding it out of them. No one has.

Here's what I posted in February on this subject:

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This is strictly my opinion - I do not believe that the spider wobble is neurological, but rather an equilibrium problem with the spiders. I have four spiders, every one of them has a wobble.

If you pulled open their tubs, took them out, handled them, let them crawl around, you'd say that they didn't have the spider spin.

But sit quietly in front of their tubs at night when they are exploring their tubs, and they move differently than the rest of my collection. When they get to the top of the tub, they will sometimes twist over backwards, wobble, etc.

Since all spiders are descendants of one animal, and the wobble is known to be associated with the gene, I do not believe that it can be bred out - and that it's tied to the spider alelle (sp?).

Again - this is only my opinion - but I'd be willing to bet if owners who swear that they have non-wobblers observed their animal's movements at night, they would see that they behave differently from their other ball pythons.

I don't personally believe it to be a bad thing. All four of mine are eating and nailing their food (it doesn't inhibit their ability to effectively dispatch their prey), growing and shedding. I think that it adds to their quirky personalities and I don't mind it.

I will say that to a first time spider owner, it can be a bit disconcerting, even if you know it's a trait of the spider - it was to me.

I think it's time to stop being fearful of the "dreaded wobble" and instead accept that it's just part of the spider charm.

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Good post Robin. I agree and especially agree that they are not "retarded", which sounds a tad offensive.

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Originally Posted by wuldier

hrmmmm, there is no way you can say they are as good off as a snake w/o the tardness.

and whos to tell if they really are suffering in some kind of way?

i still wanna know why killer bees are so valuable yet, retarded..

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I can say with absolute 100 percent certainty that spiders and spider combos that wobble are just as well off as animals that don't. They eat, they grow, they shed they poop.

There are a few things I've learned over the years about these animals, the biggest of which is what allowed me to make this statement. If there is anything wrong with the animals health i.e. they are in pain or sick. They will not eat. I've had animals that would just slam food and then one day just stop, do a little digging and they have a mild RI, I mean so mild that even my vet had to pay close attention to notice it. I've had an animal with an injury quit eating.

If you know your animals and you've spent enough time with these snakes you can tell when something is wrong with one of them.

I have a Bee she's a little tweaked..When if you just grab her she freaks, also during feeding time she likes to head wobble. No big deal. Shes eats better than any snake I own and despite being a little tweaked. I've never seen a snake that is this sweet that eats this consistently.

Killer bee's are so valuable because they are a homozygous pastel and spider gene in the same animal. Breeders have gotten past the wobble in spiders and most just except it. It doesn't make them defective it just makes them unique.

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Originally Posted by wuldier

i still wanna know why killer bees are so valuable yet, retarded..

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Because it's a super pastel and a spider in one snake... :salute: