Approaching Tank

Quick Questions.

I have noticed that in the evening when Tanveer is out and about cruising, I easily startle him when I walk in front of/approach his tank. I have plenty of plants, the back and sides are covered etc... I don't approach quickly or rushed. He doesn't hiss or strike. He just flings back and hides really fast. It makes me feel bad because I don't mean to freak him out.

I am wondering if this is normal snake behavior and something I can always expect? Or will he eventually get used to me approaching the tank? I have only had him for a couple of weeks now.

Also is it normal for BP's to be head shy when petting them etc.? Mine definately is and a friend of mine told me I needed to break him of that habit! I tend to disagree and don't see why I should stress him out when I can easily not bother his head.

mine does that and i had mine for am onths, i feel bad too

I think they are all different.I have 9 and some of them are skitish and some are not.Some of mine calmed after awhile.So there is a good chance yours will.
Mike.

I have had my BP for a little over a month now and he still pulls back when he sees me sometimes. He is getting better with it though and has calmed down significantly.

Ball pythons are naturally secretive. As far as handling, He will get more and more used to it.

To answer your other question, BPs in general are VERY head shy(many pythons are, but BPs even more so in general from my experience). Many other snakes are headshy too, but the colubrids i have cared for were much less so.

I have heard of BPs that "let" you pet their head, and I have heard about tricks you can do during handling to get them to be less scared about their head. I don't know if they can "learn" to not be head shy, but some of the methods I have read about seem gentle enough they are worth a try.

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Also is it normal for BP's to be head shy when petting them etc.? Mine definately is and a friend of mine told me I needed to break him of that habit! I tend to disagree and don't see why I should stress him out when I can easily not bother his head.

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It certainly isn't a habit you need to break. I get by fine without petting my BP's head so I don't find it fit to train her otherwise.

Dennis

Yeah see, I thought I had heard that BP's can be rather head shy. I didn't see any reason to fix the issue until my friend said something about it so I figured I would ask here! As usual, you have all prevailed in educating me! Thank you! Being 3 feet long I certainly don't 'need' to fool with his head unless need be then LOL.

When he flees from me when I approach the tank I always then just leave him alone. Is that best? Or should I open the lid and handle him anyways? I just hate to stress him out anymore then I need to....eek!

What is a recommended handling schedule when you have a new BP??? As an example: Once everyday for 5 minutes etc...

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Originally Posted by BuddhaLuv

When he flees from me when I approach the tank I always then just leave him alone. Is that best? Or should I open the lid and handle him anyways? I just hate to stress him out anymore then I need to....eek!

What is a recommended handling schedule when you have a new BP??? As an example: Once everyday for 5 minutes etc...

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What I used to do with my corn snake was wait around the tank quietly after I spooked her. After more handling and "peaceful" exposure with me outside her tank she stopped recoiling as harshly when I walk by and sometimes seems to express interest in what I'm doing. But maybe that's just her being hungry...who knows?

Handling her every time after she hides may have a training effect on her but I'm skeptical. And depending on how many times you do this a day it may stress her out.

More exposure to you in general will ease her up a bit and in time she may stop the recoil act. But they are secretive by nature so don't be disappointed if she never stops doing it. Each snake is different.

I was told to handle once a day for ~15 minutes at first. Keep that up for a couple weeks while gradually increasing handling time. Gauge your animal's reactions to you and see how stressed out she gets. If she isn't taking well to being handled keep the handling sessions short and keep to gradual increases. I always try to put my snakes back in their enclosures when they're in a chill mode as to not reward spastic escape behavior with being left alone.

Hope this helped?

Dennis

p.s.
Maybe you should just stop clomping around the room to get your snake to not recoil. :gj:

Dennis,

Thanks for your reply!

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Originally Posted by Hapa_Haole

Handling her every time after she hides may have a training effect on her but I'm skeptical.

More exposure to you in general will ease her up a bit and in time she may stop the recoil act.

I always try to put my snakes back in their enclosures when they're in a chill mode as to not reward spastic escape behavior with being left alone. :gj:

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I didn't think about the training effect that might have. That is a good point! It would be like possibly positively conditioning his coiling response right?

Okay maybe I will just hang around like you do until he chills out and uncoils. Then proceed with handling him etc..

What would you call chill mode? LOL. The majority of times I hold Tanveer he is usually cruising all over me. He maybe stays still 5% of the time LOL. I usually put him back within 5 to 10 minutes or so because I can't keep with him and all of his movement LOL. Is that more of a stress response with him moving all over the place? I feel like everytime I hold him we are both thinking the same thought "He/she has no clue how to handle me" LOL.

Sigh........it's challenging be new to this.

I feed him today so I won't be handling him for the next 2 days.

Keep in mind that you have an animal that will live for twenty or thirty years here. Patience is the key. I would handle her maybe twice a week or so. Don't try to "train her". Likely she will train you first.

BP's react to things above them. This is a matter of survival for them. Try to come in from the side as much as possible. The tricky time is getting them out. Once out things are usually fine. Sit in a quiet area with her in your lap/hands for a few minutes, a few times a week and I'll bet you guys will be best friends in no time.

Of course they are all individuals. I have a few I don't even bother trying to hold anymore, and some I hold every day.

Thanks Jenn:D It's funny because my biggest fear is actually not handling him enough and thinking he'd then start to not like being held LOL.

I think I will cut to 2 times a week and short sessions and see how he does then. When I put him on my lap, usually within a minute or so he takes off cruising somewhere or attempts too. So I was thinking maybe he just doesn't enjoy being held OR he's stressed being handled OR he is just extremely nosey LOL.

I fed him successfully again today (he's on a 10 day schedule) so I will wait 2 days and then cut down to shorter handling sessions twice a week for awhile and see how he does:D

FYI: Feeding him today was hilarious because he didn't strike last time at all (very first feed by me). I swear I actually saw him snuggle with the F/T rat last time LOL. Anywho, I had never seen a snake strike and coil before so boy was I suprised when he did within about 5 seconds of me dangling the rat with tongs LMAO. I'm not gonna lie, I'm shocked I didn't have to change my pants;)

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Originally Posted by BuddhaLuv

I didn't think about the training effect that might have. That is a good point! It would be like possibly positively conditioning his coiling response right?

Okay maybe I will just hang around like you do until he chills out and uncoils. Then proceed with handling him etc..

What would you call chill mode? LOL. The majority of times I hold Tanveer he is usually cruising all over me. He maybe stays still 5% of the time LOL. I usually put him back within 5 to 10 minutes or so because I can't keep with him and all of his movement LOL. Is that more of a stress response with him moving all over the place? I feel like everytime I hold him we are both thinking the same thought "He/she has no clue how to handle me" LOL.

Sigh........it's challenging be new to this.

I feed him today so I won't be handling him for the next 2 days.

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Hmm I meant training in that he recoils into hide and then you pick him up = trained to think recoiling into the hide means he'll get picked up OR trained to think that recoiling into his "safe place" does nothing to protect him from the big scary monster (and that his "safe place" isn't so safe after all). But who knows if that's the case.

Sounds like you have a pretty active guy. Does he move around frantically like he's trying to escape you? Or is he just energetic? By "chill mode" I meant casually exploring the surroundings which doesn't sound like yours haha. My girl was more of a "freezer" than a runner. When she froze I'd stop what I was doing and wait until she started moving again.

Of course more skittish snakes may never go into "chill mode" until they've been worked with a lot. Learn to read your snake, what he likes and what he doesn't like, and as you get more comfortable with handling him I'm sure he'll get more comfortable with being handled. My little worm of a corn snake taught me very quickly what she didn't like by imitating a rattle snake whenever she was displeased haha.

And how old is he? Young BPs can be fed every 5-7 days although I'm sure the 10 day schedule isn't doing him any harm (assuming you're feeding correctly sized meals).

Dennis

Hey Dennis,

Yeah he's active alright LOL. If I am walking with him then he simply looks like he's in exploration mode. He wraps around my waist, goes up and down my arms, stretches his neck out into the open like he's casing the joint LOL. However, if I am sitting on the couch with him then he immediately heads for inbetween the cushions like he's on a mission or something. I laugh whenever I hear about people with their bp's who simply lay on their lap and nap etc... I can't even imagine Tanveer doing that! I wish! I think the only time he isn't moving is when he is in his hide LOL.

Now he does sometimes "freeze" if I am standing with him. Then I simply stand still until he moves again. Only once has he hissed while I was holding him and he didn't really seem to be hissing at anything in particular. He just stuck his neck out away from me and hissed.

I'll keep working with him though and maybe one day he'll be a little more chill. If he doesn't, well atleast I'll learn to be really good handling him as he's cruising LOL.

He was from a rescue in Northern AZ and they didn't know his exact age. Basically all I know is that he is definately an adult, 3 to 3.5 ft long, and when I weighed him 2 weeks ago he was 1224.69 grams. I am feeding him 1 F/T med. rat every 10 days. Does that sound right?

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Originally Posted by BuddhaLuv

Hey Dennis,

Yeah he's active alright LOL. If I am walking with him then he simply looks like he's in exploration mode. He wraps around my waist, goes up and down my arms, stretches his neck out into the open like he's casing the joint LOL. However, if I am sitting on the couch with him then he immediately heads for inbetween the cushions like he's on a mission or something. I laugh whenever I hear about people with their bp's who simply lay on their lap and nap etc... I can't even imagine Tanveer doing that! I wish! I think the only time he isn't moving is when he is in his hide LOL.

Now he does sometimes "freeze" if I am standing with him. Then I simply stand still until he moves again. Only once has he hissed while I was holding him and he didn't really seem to be hissing at anything in particular. He just stuck his neck out away from me and hissed.

I'll keep working with him though and maybe one day he'll be a little more chill. If he doesn't, well atleast I'll learn to be really good handling him as he's cruising LOL.

He was from a rescue in Northern AZ and they didn't know his exact age. Basically all I know is that he is definately an adult, 3 to 3.5 ft long, and when I weighed him 2 weeks ago he was 1224.69 grams. I am feeding him 1 F/T med. rat every 10 days. Does that sound right?

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Ah, since he's an adult that's perfect then. My BP will make for the cushions the second you let her as well...I guess she's just more lazy about it haha.

What would you say his head movements are like? Quick and jerky with few tongue flicks? Or more smoothly with the occasional flick?

Dennis

I keep a sheet on my couch so they can't sneak off down inside the couch. Having had to flip a couch and rip out the bottom to recover a snake just isn't all that much fun - once was quite enough for us LOL.

Remember this is a snake, a nocturnal, fairly shy species of snake. Two weeks in their lifespan is really just a blink of an eye. They are barely even settling in at that point, especially an adult that's been used to a different person and house for his lifetime. Patience is the key here. Also routine. Set up simple habits/routines that you do every time you interact with him. One routine for handling days, another for feeding days, another for cleaning days. Follow the same simple steps over and over again. Eventually he'll get used to these simple routines and relax more that when you do A, then B will always occur and since B doesn't hurt him, there's no need to get defensive about it.

For now you might want to add in some fake vines or even a dark cloth over part of the front of the tank. This will allow you some viewing of him but give him a bit more privacy to view you without feeling exposed to you. For now, you are just a big heat emitting possible predator in his snakey mind.

As far as head shy, this is pretty common in BPs. Most will come to accept and seem to enjoy a nice gentle under the "chin" rub. Some will accept a direct stroking of the top of their heads but that's far less common. I have two adult females here that act like dogs and could care less what you do around their heads but that's pretty unusual from what I've experienced with these snakes. These are very individual creatures so what works with one won't always work with another.

Work on routines, be patient, your scale buddy will quite likely come around in time. :)

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Originally Posted by Hapa_Haole

What would you say his head movements are like? Quick and jerky with few tongue flicks? Or more smoothly with the occasional flick?

Dennis

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I am happy to report that he has been more chill in his tank. He doesn't seem to retract as much anymore and if anything he likes to face the front his tank while resting his head/neck area on his hide basking at night. It's kinda like he is almost checking ME out more now lately.

If he does retract in his tank quickly then his head movement his usually quick and jerky. He doesn't tongue flick usually until he begins smoothly moving again. I usually just stop moving when he retracts until he begins moving again. Is the retracting more of a fear response or a defensive response?

Yesterday I held him on my lap and he was balled up, then he popped out and turned his head slowly so he was facing me yet resting on his body. I turned his body back around, out of my own fear, so he wasn't facing me anymore:confused: I really feel like such a dork sometimes because I am so new to owning a snake and don't know how to read his body language yet. Anywho after a moment, he began unballing and cruising on me slowly and smoothly. I kept the session short at about 5 minutes but it seemed to go well. He didn't want to go back into his tank and seemed much more interested in slithering up the wall LOL. Then I got all flustered trying to convince him to go back in. I suppose it will just take time and with 20 to 30 years I have a lot of it LOL.

Well it sounds like things are coming along quite nicely. :)

A lot of ball pythons like to lurk. This is the behavior when they lay with their body mostly hidden in their hide and just a bit of their head and neck pokes out. They can use this as a way to watch their world. They can use this as a way to watch for prey (they are after all ambush predators). If you happen by when they are lurking they will often jerk their head back into the hide. Just instinct, perfectly normal reaction.

I like that you are just letting the snake uncoil like that. That's a nice way to just relax and let the snake decide when it's ready to start exploring. You'll eventually learn how to read the rate of tongue flicking, the intensity of their look, the feel of their muscles. It will come in time so just learning to trust your own instincts when dealing with such a highly instinctual animal. Most of us human beings have long forgotten to trust our own instincts but they are there, just tune into them more and you'll do just fine.

Remeber to check yourself. When people are a bit nervous, we tend to breathe fast and move in quick, jerky ways. I believe those things trigger a predator that hunts rodents as it's main dinner choice. If you are a bit nervous (and this is totally normal for a newer keeper) practise relaxation techniques prior to and during handling your snake. I think it helps the snake and it certainly is good for you. :)

Make your handling time a quiet time. Put on a nice tv show, take the snake out and just chill together on the couch for a little bit of time. Focus for now on a good removal and return to his enclosure so you are setting up routines that will cue the snake that handling time is not a time to be stressed and defensive around you.

Joanna,
Thank you sooooo much! You boosted my confidence with my handling sessions and reassured me that being nervous is normal;)! Also thank you so much for suggesting the relaxation techniques before and during handling sessions! That is a great idea!