Another Failed attempt

So I tried feeding again tonight will no avail.

I was curious is everyone's BP's are constantly trying to escape. If She is out of her hide the only thing she is trying to do it escape. She was so preoccupied trying to escape she wouldn't even take notice to the feeder.

Is it my husbandry? Is it my enclosure? I've tried everything with no change. She's my first bp and I'm really becoming disheartened. I feel like I'm incapable of keeping her happy enough to want to eat!!!! Picky Picky Picky..... I wish I could be this picky ha ha.

How long have you had her?
What kind of enclosure/temps/humidity?

We need more details about your enclosure. Does your snake have 2 hides? What is her bedding? How hot is her tank? Does she have a hot & cold side so she can thermoregualte her body heat? How long have you had your snake? Was she feeding when you got her? Where did you get her from? Was it a pet store or a breeder? The more info you can give the better equipped we will be to help solve your dilemma. ;)

If you have her in a tank, try putting her in a tub ( with correct husbandry of course ) this worked with 2 of my nonfeeders. They hated the tank but after a week in a tub the ate right away.

Have you had a chance to review this checklist from our caresheet yet?

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WHY WON'T MY SNAKE EAT?
In almost all cases, a ball python refuses to eat due to husbandry issues. Especially a young one. If your snake misses more than one meal (sometimes they won't want to eat while in shed) please check the following possible causes:

Lack of Security -- No hides, or hides that are too large or exposed (ie: half logs). They prefer dark, tight hides they barely fit into. Also, if the enclosure is too large, or too open (glass) or in a high traffic area with a lot of loud noise or movement. Another snake in the same enclosure can also cause serious security issues.

Over Handling -- Frequent intrusions into the enclosure, changes to the enclosure, and/or long frequent handling sessions can cause a shy snake to feel vulnerable and refuse to eat.

Improper Temps -- Temps that are too high or too low, or temps that fluctuate too much. Make sure you have an accurate and consistent read on your temps.

Improper Lighting -- Bright white lights shining directly into the enclosure, or 24 hour lighting can cause stress. Make sure there is some sort of day/night cycle.

Offering New Prey -- Changing prey species (ie: mice to rats) or methods (ie: live to f/t) can cause refusal. Such changes can be made, but may require patience and persistence.

Improper Offering of Prey -- Offering prey too frequently can do more harm than good. If a snake refuses, do not attempt to feed again for a week. Also, changing environments by moving to a feeding-box or removing hides and "furniture" can cause refusal in these shy snakes.

Prey Too Large -- Too large an item may intimidate a snake and cause refusal, or even a regurgitation if it is eaten. Also, if a ball python has eaten large meals in the past, it can cause a sudden an indefinite period of fasting.

Mites -- An external parasite common to snakes that must be treated and eradicated. A product called Provent-a-Mite (P.A.M.) is the safest and most effective method.

Seasonal -- Sexually mature ball pythons may fast for anywhere from a few weeks to a few months during their mating season (typically anywhere from late fall to early spring) especially if a sexually mature snake of the opposite sex is in close proximity.

Illness -- If all other possible reasons are eliminated, a vet check may be in order to look for internal parasites, as well as possible infections to the skin, scales, mouth or respiratory system.

Fortunately, ball pythons are extremely hardy snakes that can go for months (if necessary) of fasting without suffering any ill effects. This gives a responsible keeper plenty of time to figure out why the snake refuses to eat and get them on a regular, consistent feeding regimen.

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My 07 girl behaves similarly. I've had her since December 12 and I have tried tweaking things every several weeks but to no avail. She spends most of her time chilling in her hides, but almost every evening while I'm sitting here doing computer work she comes out for a few hours and tries to escape (pushing her nose into nooks around the tub, cruising heavily, etc.). Then she goes back in her hides and gives up, but may come out later during the night to try again. Every now and then she'll be doing it during the middle of the day, even.

My temps are good (though I have tried slightly warmer/cooler to see if that was it), humidity is spot-on, I've tried clear open tubs, tubs covered in black plastic, changing the size/material/placement/number of hides, changing the water bowl size/style, changing the type of bedding...I just can't seem to figure out what her issue is! She has poo'd and shed (perfectly) a few times but still refuses to eat, and still does her little escape routine. I'm almost at my wit's end trying to figure it out. I've been told by a few people to chalk it up to hormones, but I don't know that I'm fully satisfied with that. My other BPs are totally happy and chill, so Penelope is a mystery to me.

v

Have you tried pre-scenting the room where her enclosure is? When my BP went off feeding for a couple weeks I just increased the time I pre-scented and it worked beautifully.

Robin: I have most definitely read the care sheet, a few times actually. But all of these bp's are so different, I'm just trying to get some feedback from owners with super picky eaters to see how theirs compare and maybe pick up and unorthodox procedure that has worked for someone else. Because at this point I just want the poor girl to eat!!! But As for the care sheet I've written a little bit about my enclosure next to all the bullet points just so everyone has enough info the give their two cents. Thank You for everyone who has already responded I love the help I get from this community. :)

Lack of Security -- She has two hides hot and cold completely identical. She barely fits into them which is what I was told was the way it should be. Three sides of the tank are covered in black foam board for insulation. She also has a large array of plants and such inside the enclosure. She is in my bedroom in the basement of my home and the only time there is someone in there is when the old lady and I are sleeping or if I'm checking her enclosure.

Over Handling -- Since I got her in February I have handled her eight to ten times. I only handle her if I have to because she hasn't eaten yet. When I do handle her its for a very brief period less than five minutes. (Which also sucks because since I got her I haven't been able to enjoy her like I want to)

Improper Temps -- I have two thermometers in the tank (accu-rite) one for the hot one for the cold. I check them almost hourly and they are consistent. Hot=92 cold=84 ambient=78 Humidity is a constant 51-52.

Improper Lighting -- I took the light off the tank within the first two weeks of having her. There is no supplemental light in her tank or in the room. She gets only want comes in the windows of the room. It stays fairly dark in the room most of the time.

Offering New Prey -- I have offered every prey. Male Female Rat Mouse black white brown f\t live and pre-killed.

Improper Offering of Prey -- I only offer once A week. Unless I dramatically change something in the enclosure than I skip a week. (only had to do this twice)

Prey Too Large -- I've resorted to feeding adult mice because they are smaller than the rats and the humane society i got her from (who never did the check ups they said they would) said she was eating two of them (the adult mice) a sitting.

Mites -- I am always looking for signs of mites. She never soaks I've never found anything in her water. And the few times I've handled her I am always looking for them!

Seasonal -- I guess this could very well be the problem.

Illness -- Well this part I can say she does not wheeze, so RI doesn't seem possible (no mucus, or other RI symptoms) I check her belly for possible burn or scale rot whenever she's stretched out in her enclosure and her belly always looks great. She has defecated three times since I've had her and every time they have been great (not runny or gross and stinky). But I'm obviously not a vet so clearly I can't say for sure if there is nothing wrong.

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Originally Posted by Woody190

Have you tried pre-scenting the room where her enclosure is? When my BP went off feeding for a couple weeks I just increased the time I pre-scented and it worked beautifully.

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I pre-scent for about a hour and a half every time before I feed her.

If she's trying to escape and roaming during the daytime hours I would be concerned that something about the husbandry is off, but your description of temps/humidity is spot on. If she's roaming and trying to escape at night its not as irregular a behavior as it would be during the day.

I keep my snakes in tubs but I've had success in getting a stubborn snake to eat by moving him from a 32qt tub to a 15qt tub temporarily. Its a lot easier for me to switch to a smaller tub than it would be for you to switch to a smaller glass viv but have you considered trying a tub until you can get him feeding? Its just an idea...

If not you could monitor his weight with the current set up and just go with the flow, making sure he's not losing a lot body mass, and offering a meal once a week.

Get a bunch of newspaper and crumple it into balls until the tank is almost full. Prescent with extra stinky (what was she eating before? Mice?) bedding around her enclosure for a half an hour to 45 minutes.

Offer her food in the middle of the night (11-12a) after you've prescented.


How large is she in grams? If she is an adult, she can easily go some time without food. What was her history? You say you adopted her, is she a wild caught by any chance?

Any info you can give will help, like i said, it sounds like your set up is good temps and hide wise, but the constant trying to escape is not normal.

Awesome, just wanted to make sure that you had seen the checklist! I can tell you that my first ball python went on an 8 month fast, partly due to my insistence that I make a glass tank work for him.

When I moved him from a 20 gallon long to a 15 quart tub, and allowed him to acclimate, he broke his fast after a week of acclimation. Have youtried to set her up on a small tub yet?

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Get a bunch of newspaper and crumple it into balls until the tank is almost full. Prescent with extra stinky (what was she eating before? Mice?) bedding around her enclosure for a half an hour to 45 minutes.

Offer her food in the middle of the night (11-12a) after you've prescented.


How large is she in grams? If she is an adult, she can easily go some time without food. What was her history? You say you adopted her, is she a wild caught by any chance?

Any info you can give will help, like i said, it sounds like your set up is good temps and hide wise, but the constant trying to escape is not normal.

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I always offer food at night. I started out just moving her hide to get her to eat because she was only out at night. But that wasn't working so I started waiting until she was already out and about.

I wish I had a scale... It was on my "next to buy list" when I was laid off and now I just don't have a single dollar to spare. But she doesn't appear to be loosing weight she is still very beautifully thick and she seems pretty heavy :) I know that doesn't quite give you the answer you wanted ha ha.

I was told she is about 3yrs old. The humane society said she was eating two adult mice a sitting the day before I picked her up and had been eating regularly since they had her. They also had her kept in a glass tank.

I've given the WC idea a few days thought to be honest. But truly I just have no way of knowing that.

It seems like she's only been trying to constantly escape since last week when she actually did. Maybe you saw my post about it. Since than every second she's awake and out of her hides she is trying to wiggle her way back out the same spot. I took the weights off her tank last night and she immediately had her head in the space she got out last time.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Awesome, just wanted to make sure that you had seen the checklist! I can tell you that my first ball python went on an 8 month fast, partly due to my insistence that I make a glass tank work for him.

When I moved him from a 20 gallon long to a 15 quart tub, and allowed him to acclimate, he broke his fast after a week of acclimation. Have youtried to set her up on a small tub yet?

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Ha Ha I am now thinking much more about the tub idea. A few weeks ago I wasn't willing to budge on the tank issue but now Its almost my only choice. :) I've cut my 55 gallon in half but so far I haven't gone all the way to tub. I just love the tank... But I want her to eat.

If I were to have her in a tub for say a two month period where she was eating weekly could I then move her back to the tank without causing unnecessary stress and if I did would the same problem just begin again or would the chance be just as good that she would continue to eat?


Thank You again for your responses guys. All the help the better. :)

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Originally Posted by VegaBP

Ha Ha I am now thinking much more about the tub idea. A few weeks ago I wasn't willing to budge on the tank issue but now Its almost my only choice. :) I've cut my 55 gallon in half but so far I haven't gone all the way to tub. I just love the tank... But I want her to eat.

If I were to have her in a tub for say a two month period where she was eating weekly could I then move her back to the tank without causing unnecessary stress and if I did would the same problem just begin again or would the chance be just as good that she would continue to eat?


Thank You again for your responses guys. All the help the better. :)

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Obviously, you're concerned enough about her not eating, that the ultimate goal right now is getting her to feed for you, and do so consistently.

The best advice I've ever been given is "listen to your snake, they'll tell you what they want".

If she eats in a tub consistently for two months, and you want to put her back in the tank, you can try. But if she stops eating again, she may be telling you that she wants the tub.

However, I think once you see how easy it is to maintain a tub, and that if you want to look at her, you can just get her out, you may become sold on tubs and think of something else better suited to such a large enclosure!

Good luck and keep us posted!

Here's how simply I set up an adult ball python in a tub. This is a Sterilite tub from Walmart (41 quart locking lid) with a small kitty litter pan as a hide, and a crock water dish.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...b/Sarahtub.jpg

There's enough room in the hide to thermo-regulate - in the next picture, she was laying in the cool side of the hide:
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...ayundertub.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...hexploring.jpg

I feed them in their tub and they usually come flying out of that hide to constrict their prey.

Hi,

Since she escaped last week and keeps trying the same spot it might just be it is taking her a little longer to "give up" and settle down again.

Have you thought of asking the humane society for the details about how they went about the feeding routine since it worked so well for them?

Maybe they were doing something completely different ( what state were the mice in when they fed her F/T or PK or live? ) that you haven't got round to trying yet.

If it was PK or FT for example they may have been leaving it in the tank overnight or even covering the tank with a towel or something while feeding.

There is also the prey types you have not tried yet - I was thinking maybe chicks or ASF's as a short term idea to get a rythm going if she would accept either?

But asking for the details of the original feeding routine would be the best first step I think. Borrowing the wifes hairdryer to really heat up the head of the PK and FT's is always worth trying too - but if you get caught it was nothing to do with me allright? :ninja:


dr del

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

Since she escaped last week and keeps trying the same spot it might just be it is taking her a little longer to "give up" and settle down again.

Have you thought of asking the humane society for the details about how they went about the feeding routine since it worked so well for them?

Maybe they were doing something completely different ( what state were the mice in when they fed her F/T or PK or live? ) that you haven't got round to trying yet.

If it was PK or FT for example they may have been leaving it in the tank overnight or even covering the tank with a towel or something while feeding.

There is also the prey types you have not tried yet - I was thinking maybe chicks or ASF's as a short term idea to get a rythm going if she would accept either?

But asking for the details of the original feeding routine would be the best first step I think. Borrowing the wifes hairdryer to really heat up the head of the PK and FT's is always worth trying too - but if you get caught it was nothing to do with me allright? :ninja:


dr del

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I wish I could, I've tried contacting the humane society many times since I got her and they have ignored me completely. Unfortunately the only means of communication I have with them is email. I never had a phone number and the only correspondence I had with them was email. The place I picked her up from was a volunteers house so I couldn't even go back to where I got her..... When I picked her up I was told she was eating f\t white mice.

When I feed f\t I put the head in front of my che for a few moments to warm it up.

Ha Ha the hair dryer has already been hidden so I can't use it to heat them up ha ha ha. I just use warm water with the mouse in a bag to thaw them out, and like I said hold it in front of the che to bring the heat up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Obviously, you're concerned enough about her not eating, that the ultimate goal right now is getting her to feed for you, and do so consistently.

The best advice I've ever been given is "listen to your snake, they'll tell you what they want".

If she eats in a tub consistently for two months, and you want to put her back in the tank, you can try. But if she stops eating again, she may be telling you that she wants the tub.

However, I think once you see how easy it is to maintain a tub, and that if you want to look at her, you can just get her out, you may become sold on tubs and think of something else better suited to such a large enclosure!

Good luck and keep us posted!

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Thank You Robin! Thats all very helpful. I might have to begin seriously considering getting a tub set up.

Maybe once the big tank is empty I can start looking into the JCP I want so bad!!! All I have to do than is convince the old lady that we need another beautiful reptile!!! :) ha ha

Is it length or height you want more in a tub?

Hi,

Length and width - height tends to end up as wasted space a lot of the time.

Use a bit of common sense though - if it is 3 inches high you're not going to have an easy time finding hides and waterbowls etc. :P

6-7 inches is generally enough but see what is recomended in the caging section.

For the small hatchlings though most people use the sweaterbox or shoebox sizes. Then they go to the 24 by 12 inch ones I think - my memory is fading on the numbers though so I will let other people give you better advice I think. :oops:


dr del