Big snakes, small enclosures.

Does anyone else feel that BHB aka Snakebytestv have their afrocs and other giant pythons in too small of tubs? They just seem really small to me.

YouTube - snakebytes tv.. pounding rats/rabbits

No offense I think they are great people and all. I was just wondering if anyone else felt this way.


-Zack

Actually brian is buying the 8 foot freedombreeders now I just got donw watching a video on youtube where he was touring someone and he told them on the video that is big snakes were being housed in to small of cages and he opened it up with the afrock in it and said see this guy can barely move. And then told the guy he was ordering all 8 foot cages

Thats good to hear.


link?

Well I think the tubs are too small, but he even keeps large monitors in tubs... that's unacceptable, IMO.

ill try to find it.

yea i dont think any commercial cage on the market are good for monitors

YouTube - Visit to Brian Barczyk's BHB (clean ver) + ball pythons

Not totally sure, but I think the monitors in those racks are there for feeding and not kept there all of the time. I seem to remember something about that from when the show first started.

Ya, I remember watching a while back that those were feeding tubs

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

Well I think the tubs are too small, but he even keeps large monitors in tubs... that's unacceptable, IMO.

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I know! I felt worse for the monitor.

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Originally Posted by Creeptastic

Ya, I remember watching a while back that those were feeding tubs

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I think the pythons live in those tubs. I remember watching him justify why they do well in smaller enclosures

edit

double post

if you dont have the space to house 40 retics, rocks and burms
you shouldnt have them, retics, rocks and burms dont need extreme big cages but the way brian does it is animalcruelty in my eyes........
its all about breeding/popularity and lots of money i think....


regards ''jp''

I actually think the popularity of these animals are going to go down in the next few years. Im kinda hoping for that.

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Originally Posted by Denial

I actually think the popularity of these animals are going to go down in the next few years. Im kinda hoping for that.

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i'm with ya on that!!......

regards ''jp''

Yea I mean I love the big guys and I am hoping and praying to be able to produce some of my own but with all the news laws there either going to be banned or regulated and once that happens it will slow down on there popularity. I mean lets face it not everyone is cut out for big snakes. There alot of people that own snakes that shouldnt be able to keeps balls and corns not mentioning burms,rocks,retics,and condas lol

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

Well I think the tubs are too small, but he even keeps large monitors in tubs... that's unacceptable, IMO.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by zackw419

Does anyone else feel that BHB aka Snakebytestv have their afrocs and other giant pythons in too small of tubs? They just seem really small to me.

YouTube - snakebytes tv.. pounding rats/rabbits

No offense I think they are great people and all. I was just wondering if anyone else felt this way.


-Zack

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by jp-reptiles

if you dont have the space to house 40 retics, rocks and burms
you shouldnt have them, retics, rocks and burms dont need extreme big cages but the way brian does it is animalcruelty in my eyes........
its all about breeding/popularity and lots of money i think....


regards ''jp''

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Have any one of you ever actually been to BHB, met Brian, viewed the snakes in question, seen their setups? Well I have. I didn't see any snakes stuffed into too small enclosures. I saw healthy animals doing just fine. Rack after rack, tub after tub, I was allowed to look at, open or have Brian open anything I wanted to see without question.

So again my question, before you decide someone of Brian's experience is doing it all wrong and you should judge him so harshly in a public forum, have you actually been at the BHB facility and based your judgement on your own personal experience there?

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Have any one of you ever actually been to BHB, met Brian, viewed the snakes in question, seen their setups? Well I have. I didn't see any snakes stuffed into too small enclosures. I saw healthy animals doing just fine. Rack after rack, tub after tub, I was allowed to look at, open or have Brian open anything I wanted to see without question.

So again my question, before you decide someone of Brian's experience is doing it all wrong and you should judge him so harshly in a public forum, have you actually been at the BHB facility and based your judgement on your own personal experience there?

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As it so happens I have been there and my assessment of the situation is the same as yours. I saw beautiful animals being conscientiously cared for by a serious crew of keepers.Brian is rightly proud of his facility and urged me to go wherever I wanted and to look at what ever I wanted.

than how could it be that the whole internet is full of short movies and pics of very large retics and rocks etc in very very small tubs from brian?????
i dont have doubts about his experience or something but i do not agree with the way he works with them, the picture in this topic with that giant in that tub with enough room for her and a watertub says enough for me, and i saw many more pics and movies of snakes in to little tubs and racks at brians facillity's


regards ''jp''

Franky
If you watch the video brian himself says the cages in question are to small. The rock in that cage can barely move. BUt he also said he was purchasing 8 foot cages. I think brians a great guy and dont have a problem with him. BUt he knows the cages are to small.

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Originally Posted by Denial

Franky
If you watch the video brian himself says the cages in question are to small. The rock in that cage can barely move. BUt he also said he was purchasing 8 foot cages. I think brians a great guy and dont have a problem with him. BUt he knows the cages are to small.

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''amen''

regards ''jp''

i am sure that franykeno and dsirkle did see that too small enclosures but protecting him cause the want to kiss his butt and because they like him i think, their are 100 pics and movies online to prove that brian keeps alot of his giants in too small enclosures...........

regards ''jp''

I have no experiance to say one way or the other..How ever I will pose this to anyone that feels this way..I'm not saying either side is right or wrong. But to say "I think" is different than saying "in my 25 years experience keeping 80 of these animals, and selling them on the open market. I have seen....."

What are your experiences keeping these animals and selling them on the open market.

How many years do you have keeping the animals in question?
Over the course of that time period how many different housing options have your tried?
What is the longest you've kept your breeding group and how many clutches have you produced?

Again I'm not taking sides but I'd like to hear that the people bringing this concern forward have as much or more years, experience keeping, breeding and careing for these animals as Brian..

Hi,

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Originally Posted by jp-reptiles

i am sure that franykeno and dsirkle did see that too small enclosures but protecting him cause the want to kiss his butt and because they like him i think, their are 100 pics and movies online to prove that brian keeps alot of his giants in too small enclosures...........

regards ''jp''

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Or it could possibly be for the reasons they stated and they just disagree with you on your conclusions.

Considering they have actually visted the facility of and spoken to the man you accuse of being responsible for "animalcruelty in my eyes........" did it ever occur to you that you might be phrasing your concerns in the wrong manner? That is a fairly serious phrase to be throwing around after all and their first hand knowledge of the state of these and other animals under his care seemed relevant to me.

Have you thought of contacting Brian directly? Since he has stated he is aware of the problem and getting the larger caging maybe he could set your mind at rest.

And, on a personal note, I find your comments on the motivations of two honest and hardworking members of staff despicable and totally uncalled for. :mad:


dr del

i'm working with giants for more then 17 years and tried all kinds of housings their are, and never got the idea that keeping them in very small tubs is the way to do it, maybe ''animalcruelty'' was a little bit overrated, sorry for that, his animals are healthy and breed so animal cruelty is out of the question....
like i said before, i dont doubt the experience of brian or his love for snakes
i just dont like the way he keeps alot of his giants, this has got nothing to do with how much experience you have or how many clutches or breedinggroups you have folks, also excuse for how i reacted on frankykeno and dsirkle, it was to harsh, i was a little bit irritated cause they where saying that no giant had a too small enclosure while there are pics of too small enclosures all over the net.......

regards ''jp''

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Originally Posted by jp-reptiles

i am sure that franykeno and dsirkle did see that too small enclosures but protecting him cause the want to kiss his butt and because they like him i think, their are 100 pics and movies online to prove that brian keeps alot of his giants in too small enclosures...........

regards ''jp''

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If Brian has stated that the houses are temporary and that he is moving them to larger quarters, then what is your issue?

I have kept animals, in smaller enclosures at various times (for various reasons), but part of that is knowing the animals, and knowing their limitations, as well as the impact in both the long and short term. I trust that Brian knows that and if the housing was not adequate in the short term that he would have arranged for something else.

I know Dale and Jo very well, and know they are conscientious keepers that strive to provide optimal lives for their animals. So your accusation is baseless and trollish. Having been to BHBs facility may have installed a sense of belief in him on their part, and not a desire to *kiss butt* as you so eloquently put it.

Bruce

I think we really need to give Brian a chance to stand up for himself. Has anyone tried to contact him? I sent him a pm, but did anyone else confront him about the enclosures. Or, just to attack him here when he's not paying attention.

Sounds a little like a backstab to me.

Hey freakie frog here is all my information

How many years do you have keeping the animals in question? 5 years
Over the course of that time period how many different housing options have your tried? Ive tried building my own(failure) Ive tried vision reptile cages and animal plastic cages
What is the longest you've kept your breeding group and how many clutches have you produced. I have not produced any clutches. This is hopefully going to be my first year producing some little burmese pythons.


Dont get me wrong. I have nothing against brian he loves his snakes and he makes a living off them breeding. My point was being he was well aware the cages are to small. Arnt they like the 5 and half feet freedom breeders? I dont think fb makes a 6 foot I thought they make 5 and half and 8 feet. But he did say he was getting big cages so I commend him for that but I dont think being able to breed your snakes has anything to do with small cages. They will breed regardless. If you house me in a closest with a naked women I would breed with her thats nature lol. I like brian hes a great guy that does a lot for the industry and my only point was HE knows his cages are to small he said it on the video lol .

I would love to have his rock though that thing is amazing! Cant wait to add a rock to the collection.

If I offended anyone with this post I am sorry. This wasnt meant to offend anyone with anything I have posted.

Im not trying to "backstab" brian. I think thats a little harsh. I dont even know the guy Ive just seen him on the web. But as far as I know he has had these animals for some time and they have always been housed in those enclosures so I doubt anything would be short term. But as I have said I have nothing to say to brian I have no problem with brian he said on camera he was purchasing bigger cages. Even if he doesnt purchase bigger cages its none of my business how he houses his animals. He is a high end breeder. He relys on these animals to pay his bills. He has thousands of animals so naturally there not going to get the biggest cages avaiable. But I just thought backstabing him is a little harsh. You usually have to meet a person a know them to "backstab" them

JP, I have been there too in the big snake room, and there were no Monitors in racks, and the very few giants he has had we're being properly caged and lovingly cared for.

Have these animals grown? Heck yea they have, such the need for larger caging.

Sounds like you are opening your mouth and spewing a load.... :rolleyes:

Yes, sorry. That statement was a little harsh. I just think we should get his opinion. It seems wrong when he can't stand up for himself. Sorry D. Got a little carried away with that one.

I also wanted to mention, I think Bryan is well aware of the caging requirements for giants. The first snakes he ever bred we're two albino burms (believe they we're burms) a few decades ago.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jp-reptiles

i am sure that franykeno and dsirkle did see that too small enclosures but protecting him cause the want to kiss his butt and because they like him i think, their are 100 pics and movies online to prove that brian keeps alot of his giants in too small enclosures...........

regards ''jp''

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I think that you need to be very careful about the accusations that you choose to make here, especially when it is meant to discredit or disrespect any member of staff. Consider this a warning.

Stratus.
No problem sometimes we get ahead of ourselves.

but I dont think brian really has anything to prove to anyone. He is well aware of how to care for his animals. And im sure them cages are on the way. I have always wanted to talk to him though about how he keeps them in there. I was considering buying the 8 foot freedom breeders. But I just dont understand how those big snakes cant push out of them things. Do they have locks????

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jp-reptiles

i am sure that franykeno and dsirkle did see that too small enclosures but protecting him cause the want to kiss his butt and because they like him i think, their are 100 pics and movies online to prove that brian keeps alot of his giants in too small enclosures...........

regards ''jp''

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jp you have about as much knowledge of who I am as a person, a snakebreeder and a Moderator here as you have of BHB's setup so I'll give your comment about my motivations for my post about as much credit as I give your comments about BHB, which quite honestly is nada.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Have any one of you ever actually been to BHB, met Brian, viewed the snakes in question, seen their setups? Well I have. I didn't see any snakes stuffed into too small enclosures. I saw healthy animals doing just fine. Rack after rack, tub after tub, I was allowed to look at, open or have Brian open anything I wanted to see without question.

So again my question, before you decide someone of Brian's experience is doing it all wrong and you should judge him so harshly in a public forum, have you actually been at the BHB facility and based your judgement on your own personal experience there?

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I don't think what I said is even close to harsh. Im just being real. FROM WHAT I HAVE SEEN on the many snakebytes episodes, the large pythons seem to have little space for moving around in their enclosures. Sorry if you took it as a personal attack.

Edit....

backstab : to attempt to discredit (a person) by underhanded means, as innuendo, accusation, or the like.

That video was well over a year old. I'm sorry if backstabbing is a little harsh, but if you have a problem with him then ask him. All i'm saying is we should be able to hear both sides.

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Originally Posted by stratus_020202

backstab : to attempt to discredit (a person) by underhanded means, as innuendo, accusation, or the like.

That video was well over a year old. I'm sorry if backstabbing is a little harsh, but if you have a problem with him then ask him. All i'm saying is we should be able to hear both sides.

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I know what backstabbing means. I wanted an explanation on how I commited the act.

The objective wasn't to discredit anyone.

My concern was for the well being of the snakes.

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My post was for the well being of the snakes.

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If you are so concerned about the well being of the snakes why post here :confused: why not contact Brian directly about your concerns?

I am a reptile noob, but have been watching and reading about BHB for a few months now, as well as got my first purchase from them. I think that they are just amazing. I get so much joy out of watching what they do. All I see from them is professionalism, and so much love for there animals. I would love to go visit them one day!! I am extremely assured that they do nothing wrong to the animals, including improper housing. For anyone reading this, I would say to check out BHB, snakebytes for yourself...you will see a bunch of people who love what they do, and produce high quality animals.

Guys, point of the matter is, Brian has these snakes in too small enclosures. Yes, I've met Brian, yes, I've seen some of his animals. He's a great guy, but that doesn't excuse him from housing them in too small enclosures.

He's obviously had that Rock for a LONG time, and thus he had PLENTY of time to get it a bigger cage. That's a FACT.

And with all due respect, why should JP treat you mods any different than other people on the forum. What are you, the Aristocrats of BP.net? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

Guys, point of the matter is, Brian has these snakes in too small enclosures. Yes, I've met Brian, yes, I've seen some of his animals. He's a great guy, but that doesn't excuse him from housing them in too small enclosures.

He's obviously had that Rock for a LONG time, and thus he had PLENTY of time to get it a bigger cage. That's a FACT.

And with all due respect, why should JP treat you mods any different than other people on the forum. What are you, the Aristocrats of BP.net? :rolleyes:

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Who is to say what is too small?

Also, many of the examples show only half of the tubs pulled out, and many are 'crammed' because they are wrapped around their water bowl.

No, they're the police of BP.net. And what happens if you assault a police officer in comparison to a normal person? A lot more.

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

Who is to say what is too small?

Also, many of the examples show only half of the tubs pulled out, and many are 'crammed' because they are wrapped around their water bowl.

No, they're the police of BP.net. And what happens if you assault a police officer in comparison to a normal person? A lot more.

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Hmm I wonder who's to say... well, I suppose any person with an IQ above 25 can tell that a 15+ft heavy bodied Python species should not be kept in a tub where it can't move. And eh, the animal is quite fat.

And yeah, police are federal officers. Public forum moderators are, well, public forum moderators. And they don't act like police, but like you-can't-touch me "police"

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

Hmm I wonder who's to say... well, I suppose any person with an IQ above 25 can tell that a 15+ft heavy bodied Python species should not be kept in a tub where it can't move. And eh, the animal is quite fat.

And yeah, police are federal officers. Public forum moderators are, well, public forum moderators. And they don't act like police, but like you-can't-touch me "police"

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If I'm not mistaken, this forum wouldn't be here without them and their hard work towards it. So, unless you want to respect the ones that keep this place together and pulled it together in the first place, you can leave.

Everything your still saying is opinion. Give me informational facts about how these cages negatively effect the animals except for your assumptions of size and the fact that it can't move, because if two can fit in one to breed, I guarantee it can move. (Not that it would much anyway.)

I know many of you feel this was a personal attack.

I was just making a point that the enclosures look like they don't offer the large snakes alot of roaming space.

Aside from the whole "backstabbing" issue. Do you all honestly not agree with me? Is it not obvious the enclosure is too small for the afrock? I hear many of you have alot of respect for Brian and believe he is a great breeder and I hear that. But aside from that how can you agree that the cage for that afrock is a good fit?

Just because an animal can survive in an enclosure, doesn't mean its a good fit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zackw419

I know many of you feel this was a personal attack.

I was just making a point that the enclosures look like they don't offer the large snakes alot of roaming space.

Aside from the whole "backstabbing" issue. Do you all honestly not agree with me? Is it not obvious the enclosure is too small for the afrock? I hear many of you have alot of respect for Brian and believe he is a great breeder and I hear that. But aside from that how can you agree that the cage for that afrock is a good fit?

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I have been told from multiple sources that the larger the snake, the less 'roaming' space they need. Snakes that large won't roam, and curl up in one place until their next meal or breeding.
They don't need a whole lot of exercise.

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

I have been told from multiple sources that the larger the snake, the less 'roaming' space they need. Snakes that large won't roam, and curl up in one place until their next meal or breeding.
They don't need a whole lot of exercise.

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With all due respect, this made me laugh. Out loud.

I agree, they don't need a lot of space. But you should provide something bigger than a 6x3 tub!! It's just unethical to keep a 17ft snake in something like that.

I'm curious to know if anyone has notified Brian regarding this. I have not had the pleasure to visit his shop, so I have no first hand experience. I have a tough time believing that he does not keep his larger snakes properly. Are the snakes housed in those racks all of the time? Are they still housed there?
I will comment that the mods and admin on this site do deserve to be treated with respect. I've noticed many disrespectful posts from new members aimed at mods and folks who have been around a bit. I do realize that just because you are new here does not mean that you are new to the hobby. I've also noticed that disrespectful noobs tend to not last very long around here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

I have been told from multiple sources that the larger the snake, the less 'roaming' space they need. Snakes that large won't roam, and curl up in one place until their next meal or breeding.
They don't need a whole lot of exercise.

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See, that's my point.

Just because a snake can survive in a tub that size doesn't mean you shouldn't provide it the space to roam when it wants to. Even if infrequent.