Has it been created

A super axanthic cinny ball python

Can you get a super form out of a recessive gene? Or do you mean a super cinnamon axanthic?

like if paired up two cinny axanthic's up would it create a super form Maybe a all grey snake

Okay, what you are asking about is the Axanthic Super Cinny, and I actually doubt that it would be a grey snake. There is very little yellow in the Super, so it wouldn't change much in terms of color.

And no, it has not been done.

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Originally Posted by B@LLZ4LIFE

like if paired up two cinny axanthic's up would it create a super form Maybe a all grey snake

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cinny axanthinc x cinny axanthinc would have the potential to create a super cinny and/or a super cinny axanthic which would both look like an all black snake. It would not be all grey.

For a solid grey snake you would be wanting a super pastel super cinny/black pastel

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Originally Posted by asplundii

cinny axanthinc x cinny axanthinc would have the potential to create a super cinny and/or a super cinny axanthic which would both look like an all black snake. It would not be all grey.

For a solid grey snake you would be wanting a super pastel super cinny/black pastel

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Actually A Cinny Axanthic x Cinny Axanthic has no chance at all of producing a plain Super Cinny. Everything in the clutch would be Axanthic at minimum. Leaving the possibilities at Axanthic, Axanthic Cinny and Axanthic Super Cinny.

As everyone else stated, the lack of yellows in the Super Cinny, doesn't leave much for the Axanthic gene to work on. In my opinion, if anything, it will make the Super Cinny a slightly blacker animal, and it should fade to brown a bit less as it ages.

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Originally Posted by muddoc

Actually A Cinny Axanthic x Cinny Axanthic has no chance at all of producing a plain Super Cinny.

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Yes you are right. My brain must have been on vacation when I typed that as I was thinking het axanthinc... My bad

BALLS4LIFE who knows what the hell that makes ! but maybe you should try it ! and stuff what all of these KNOW IT ALL "OOH ITS GUNNA BE A SLIGHTLY DIFF BLAHA BLAAH ... JUST TRY IT SOME OF THE BEST LOOKING MORPHS WHERE CREATED BY PEOPLE LIKE YOU SO DONT LISTEN TO ANYONES opinion ...:cool:

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Originally Posted by Anarchy

BALLS4LIFE who knows what the hell that makes ! but maybe you should try it ! and stuff what all of these KNOW IT ALL "OOH ITS GUNNA BE A SLIGHTLY DIFF BLAHA BLAAH ... JUST TRY IT SOME OF THE BEST LOOKING MORPHS WHERE CREATED BY PEOPLE LIKE YOU SO DONT LISTEN TO ANYONES opinion ...:cool:

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:rofl: You crack me up! I agree. just try it. If it's never been done, who knows?

I agree that if one is curious what a potential combo would look like, the best way to find out is to make it rather than asking on a forum (unless it has already been made). However, it takes rather a long time, and isn't necessarily very practical.

In some cases, we have no idea why a morph creates the look it does, and it is very hard to predict what a combo will look like.

In the case of the axanthic genes, we know pretty much exactly what they do, so it is much easier to predict what an axanthic combo will look like. Specifically, the axanthic gene reduces (pretty much eliminates) the production or expression of the yellow pigment cells, which I believe are called xanthospores. So, in a snake that already shows very little yellow, reducing or eliminating it should have very little effect.

That is not to say it is impossible that there will be an unexpected outcome, just highly unlikely. It is even possible that one of the 3 known axanthic genes would create an interesting effect, while the other 2 behave in the way we expect in this combo. So go ahead and make all 3 versions of it if you want. Personally, I'd rather use my breeding efforts in a direction likely to make something a little more interesting than an axanthic super cinnamon that may be indistinguishable from a regular super cinnamon.

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Originally Posted by kc261

I agree that if one is curious what a potential combo would look like, the best way to find out is to make it rather than asking on a forum (unless it has already been made). However, it takes rather a long time, and isn't necessarily very practical.

In some cases, we have no idea why a morph creates the look it does, and it is very hard to predict what a combo will look like.

In the case of the axanthic genes, we know pretty much exactly what they do, so it is much easier to predict what an axanthic combo will look like. Specifically, the axanthic gene reduces (pretty much eliminates) the production or expression of the yellow pigment cells, which I believe are called xanthospores. So, in a snake that already shows very little yellow, reducing or eliminating it should have very little effect.

That is not to say it is impossible that there will be an unexpected outcome, just highly unlikely. It is even possible that one of the 3 known axanthic genes would create an interesting effect, while the other 2 behave in the way we expect in this combo. So go ahead and make all 3 versions of it if you want. Personally, I'd rather use my breeding efforts in a direction likely to make something a little more interesting than an axanthic super cinnamon that may be indistinguishable from a regular super cinnamon.

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dude you just had to say something mr.know it all the second ...:cool:

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Originally Posted by Anarchy

dude you just had to say something mr.know it all the second ...:cool:

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I'm neither a dude nor a mr., and I certainly am not even close to knowing it all. :confuzd:

How about do your own research like everyone else on here has and after you have exhausted all other resources then ask on here.

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Originally Posted by Anarchy

dude you just had to say something mr.know it all the second ...:cool:

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Ok, since you seem to be the real expert what will be the outcome?

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Originally Posted by stangs13

Ok, since you seem to be the real expert what will be the outcome?

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I never said i knew the outcome detective !:colbert:

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Originally Posted by Anarchy

I never said i knew the outcome detective !:colbert:

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Brilliant:colbert2:

Am I allowed an opinion? :rolleyes:

Axanthic removes yellow pigment, thats what it is/does/means. I can't see a gene that removes yellow pigment doing much to a brown snake. I suspect this is why you never seen cinnie het axanthics for sale. Any breeder contemplating doing it has obviously decided it's not worth the investment as far as time and animal usage goes.

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Originally Posted by Anarchy

dude you just had to say something mr.know it all the second ...:cool:

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Originally Posted by tattlife2001

How about do your own research like everyone else on here has and after you have exhausted all other resources then ask on here.

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Originally Posted by Anarchy

I never said i knew the outcome detective !:colbert:

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Seriously, What is with all of the new members lately with attitudes on BP.net?
Seems like every other thread I have read this morning has some new member being rude & disrespectful to other members both new and old.

Actually, Chris at Gulf Coast Reptiles produced an Axanthic Black Pastel, and it was a darn good looking animal. He actually has some Black Pastel Het Axanthics for sale right now. With that said, it is one of those projects that sometimes doesn't have to go to the end (i.e. the Super Black Pastel or Cinny form), but has a middle of the road form that looks great.

Another great example of this is one of my favorite snakes in my collection. The Hypo Mojave is an astounding looking animal, however, the Hypo gene doesn't do much to the Super Mojave that makes it strikingly different.

Just my .02,

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Originally Posted by mason

Am I allowed an opinion? :rolleyes:

Axanthic removes yellow pigment, thats what it is/does/means. I can't see a gene that removes yellow pigment doing much to a brown snake. I suspect this is why you never seen cinnie het axanthics for sale. Any breeder contemplating doing it has obviously decided it's not worth the investment as far as time and animal usage goes.

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dude you cant speak for every breeder out there i bet someone will contemplate doing it and maybe it is worth the investment as far as time goes you NEVER KNOW ..... :cool:

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Originally Posted by Anarchy

dude you cant speak for every breeder out there i bet someone will contemplate doing it and maybe it is worth the investment as far as time goes you NEVER KNOW ..... :cool:

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That may be true, and like Tim said, someone has already done part of the work, BUT, its sort of common knowledge what Axanthics do to animals without much yellow.

I think in your case, you should do it and prove everyone wrong.

That way you can back up your mouth with proof.

Until that day, chill out.

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

That may be true, and like Tim said, someone has already done part of the work, BUT, its sort of common knowledge what Axanthics do to animals without much yellow.

I think in your case, you should do it and prove everyone wrong.

That way you can back up your mouth with proof.

Until that day, chill out.

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hey thanks for stating the obvious genius i think i knew the only way to prove it would be to do it , and i dont need to chill out these are words being written you dont know my reaction behind them i could be smiling im not mad and im pretty sure no one here is mad this is just a good little debate over some genetics nothing serious so i think you should take your own advice chill out :cool:

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Originally Posted by Anarchy

hey thanks for stating the obvious genius i think i knew the only way to prove it would be to do it , and i dont need to chill out these are words being written you dont know my reaction behind them i could be smiling im not mad and im pretty sure no one here is mad this is just a good little debate over some genetics nothing serious so i think you should take your own advice chill out :cool:

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I'm cool as a cucumber, dood.

And thank you for commenting on my intellect. I am rather intellegent, yes.

I also use punctuation and capitalization.

No worries bout me.

I actually have a way of making the Super Cinny Axanthic in the next few years.

Do you?

Better start now, we can make it a RACE!

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Originally Posted by Anarchy

hey thanks for stating the obvious genius i think i knew the only way to prove it would be to do it , and i dont need to chill out these are words being written you dont know my reaction behind them i could be smiling im not mad and im pretty sure no one here is mad this is just a good little debate over some genetics nothing serious so i think you should take your own advice chill out :cool:

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I agree.....Heather is a genius.

X2 ^^^^^^^^^^

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

I actually have a way of making the Super Cinny Axanthic in the next few years.

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I am so jealous!! We better get lots, and lots of pictures :)

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Originally Posted by Anarchy

hey thanks for stating the obvious genius i think i knew the only way to prove it would be to do it , and i dont need to chill out these are words being written you dont know my reaction behind them i could be smiling im not mad and im pretty sure no one here is mad this is just a good little debate over some genetics nothing serious so i think you should take your own advice chill out :cool:

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What is up with the use of Genius? I got called that yesterday and I cant believe someone thinks that of me! Is it a Diss or are you calling someone smart?

I think it was Jamills who said it but what is with all the Noobs abashing?

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Originally Posted by Anarchy

hey thanks for stating the obvious genius i think i knew the only way to prove it would be to do it , and i dont need to chill out these are words being written you dont know my reaction behind them i could be smiling im not mad and im pretty sure no one here is mad this is just a good little debate over some genetics nothing serious so i think you should take your own advice chill out :cool:

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