Attention needed once again

I was forwarded this info. http://thetegu.com/modules.php?name=...&p=58555#58555

This has been floating around for awhile............it's been through two amendments.........

Can you tell us why we should be concerned about this one?

I've seen on other forums where people have screeched about the "live animal market" reference in this bill.

FWIW "live animal markets" are defined in Section 597.3 of the California Penal Code:

(2) "Live animal market" means a retail food market where, in the
regular course of business, animals are stored alive and sold to
consumers for the purpose of human consumption.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

This has been floating around for awhile............it's been through two amendments.........

Can you tell us why we should be concerned about this one?

I've seen on other forums where people have screeched about the "live animal market" reference in this bill.

FWIW "live animal markets" are defined in Section 597.3 of the California Penal Code:

(2) "Live animal market" means a retail food market where, in the
regular course of business, animals are stored alive and sold to
consumers for the purpose of human consumption.

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Did you even read it :confused:? Its an attempt to CEASE reptile shows not the eating of animals :rolleyes:.They are wanting ONLY pet stores to be able to sell animals period.So yes its worth my time to alert EVERYONE about it ;)

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Originally Posted by joepythons

Did you even read it :confused:? Its an attempt to CEASE reptile shows not the eating of animals :rolleyes:.They are wanting ONLY pet stores to be able to sell animals period.So yes its worth my time to alert EVERYONE about it ;)

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I read it Joe, and I've known about it for a while. I'm so gratified to see everyone is suddenly up in arms about a bill that has been floating around for over two months...........

Where are they wanting only Pet Stores to sell animals? Where does it ban reptile shows? Where does it not allow a small time breeder to sell reptiles out of his house?

SECTION 1. Section 597.4 is added to the Penal Code, to read:
597.4. (a) It shall be unlawful for any person to willfully sell,
display , or offer for sale or give away as part
of a commercial transaction , a live animal on any street,
highway, public right-of-way, commercial parking lot, or at any
outdoor special sale, swap meet, flea market, parking lot sale,
carnival, or boardwalk.

I have no problem refraining from selling live animals on:

a street
a highway
in the public ROW
in a commercial parking lot
at an OUTDOOR special sale
at a swap meet
or a flea market
even a parking lot sale and being afraid of clowns,
a carnival is automatically out
and I haven't bought an animal at a boardwalk in ages.

Joe, I've looked at the full text of the bill, in it's original and amended forms and can find no reference to the bill making it a crime to sell reptiles only through pet stores.

Now, if some of this bill was written in secret invisible ink, or if this is part of some secret conspiracy to gradually strip all of a our constitutional rights away from us by back-dooring it through the reptile industry (you know, first they came for our reptiles and then our first born sons), then please point me to correct verbiage in the bill.

Thanks in advance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by joepythons

I was forwarded this info. http://thetegu.com/modules.php?name=...&p=58555#58555

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I just got my email from USARK and was going to post this

(This bill would provide, in addition and with specified exceptions,
that it shall be a crime, punishable as specified, for any person to
willfully sell, trade, barter, display, or offer for sale, trade, or barter, or
give away as part of a commercial transaction a live animal on any
street, highway, public right-of-way, commercial parking lot, or at any
outdoor special sale, swap meet,.) Last time i checked reptile shows were called swap meets.So if they pass this then good-bye reptile shows :mad:

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Originally Posted by minguss

I just got my email from USARK and was going to post this

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Got mine last night :P

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Originally Posted by joepythons

(This bill would provide, in addition and with specified exceptions,
that it shall be a crime, punishable as specified, for any person to
willfully sell, trade, barter, display, or offer for sale, trade, or barter, or
give away as part of a commercial transaction a live animal on any
street, highway, public right-of-way, commercial parking lot, or at any
outdoor special sale, swap meet,.) Last time i checked reptile shows were called swap meets.So if they pass this then good-bye reptile shows :mad:

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Last time I checked a swap meet was a swap meet and a reptile show was a reptile show.

If the verbiage of the bill is confusing - so be it. That's why they get bounced back and forth with amendments.

Re-read the highlighted portion of your quote, Joe. Street.........public ROW................commercial parking lot...............outdoor special sale.............swap meet.............there is a similarity in all of these locations - they are outdoor public places. This bill is being introduced as part of an effort to target a certain type of live animal transaction, not as part of some sinister master plan to strip you of your right to buy or sell reptiles.

If everyone is so concerned about whether a reptile show qualifies as a swap meet then get this thing amended or clarified.

Blindly calling for the striking down of every animal rights bill that comes down the pipe makes our community look every bit as stupid, extremist and insensible as organizations like PETA.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

Last time I checked a swap meet was a swap meet and a reptile show was a reptile show.

If the verbiage of the bill is confusing - so be it. That's why they get bounced back and forth with amendments.

Re-read the highlighted portion of your quote, Joe. Street.........public ROW................commercial parking lot...............outdoor special sale.............swap meet.............there is a similarity in all of these locations - they are outdoor public places. This bill is being introduced as part of an effort to target a certain type of live animal transaction, not as part of some sinister master plan to strip you of your right to buy or sell reptiles.

If everyone is so concerned about whether a reptile show qualifies as a swap meet then get this thing amended or clarified.

Blindly calling for the striking down of every animal rights bill that comes down the pipe makes our community look every bit as stupid, extremist and insensible as organizations like PETA.

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Well its enough to alert USARK.You can read it how you want but its here for everyone to read and form thier own opinion if its important to them or not ;)

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

I have no problem refraining from selling live animals on:

a street
a highway
in the public ROW
in a commercial parking lot
at an OUTDOOR special sale
at a swap meet
or a flea market
even a parking lot sale and being afraid of clowns,
a carnival is automatically out
and I haven't bought an animal at a boardwalk in ages.

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Reptile expos could very well be legally interpreted as swap meets.

Even if they aren't, who is the government to prevent hobbyists from organizing a reptile swap meet?

In addition, I picked up my crested geckos in a parking lot. We arranged the sale over the phone, decided to meet halfway between where we lived (at a target parking lot) to do the actual exchange of animals+cages/money. I see no problem with that.

This bill would make actions such as those illegal. Yeah I personally have no problem with restricting selling animals at a carnival or along a highway or a couple of the other things mentioned, but I do have problems with portions of this bill.

Wow i guess i am NOT the only one whom thinks this needed to be brought to our attention :rolleyes:. http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=90937

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Originally Posted by joepythons

Wow i guess i am NOT the only one whom thinks this needed to be brought to our attention :rolleyes:. http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=90937

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My response here is not towards Ladyohh

I thought the bill sounded okay, until I read it through a second time.
The swap meet thing MIGHT be an issue, but the part that says that no exchange shall take place in a parkingl ot or blah blah.. that actually would make it illegil for people selling person-to-person to meet somewhere to exchange an animal even if they are previously paid the money via say paypal, or were doing a swap animal-for-animal. The "deal" would be made in the parking lot, so would be illegil.
If you breed a few animals, and wanted to sell, other than shipping, you would not be able to meet up to give the person the animal under this law.
The flea market thing also would shut down small pet places at even INDOOR flea markets, in addition to any sales at any outdoor market, or event.
ALSO, with california already drowning in debt, and having to cut back essential things in order to try to stay afloat, why would anyone put up something NEW to enforce, which states absolutely in it, that the state of California will be finiancially responsible for?

So all in all, I'm not sure that it was absolutely outlaw reptile shows... but it is NOT a good thing the way it's worded currantly.

My $0.02

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

I thought the bill sounded okay, until I read it through a second time.
The swap meet thing MIGHT be an issue, but the part that says that no exchange shall take place in a parkingl ot or blah blah.. that actually would make it illegil for people selling person-to-person to meet somewhere to exchange an animal even if they are previously paid the money via say paypal, or were doing a swap animal-for-animal. The "deal" would be made in the parking lot, so would be illegil.
If you breed a few animals, and wanted to sell, other than shipping, you would not be able to meet up to give the person the animal under this law.
The flea market thing also would shut down small pet places at even INDOOR flea markets, in addition to any sales at any outdoor market, or event.
ALSO, with california already drowning in debt, and having to cut back essential things in order to try to stay afloat, why would anyone put up something NEW to enforce, which states absolutely in it, that the state of California will be finiancially responsible for?

So all in all, I'm not sure that it was absolutely outlaw reptile shows... but it is NOT a good thing the way it's worded currantly.

My $0.02

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Thanks for pointing that detail out :gj:

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Originally Posted by joepythons

Well its enough to alert USARK.You can read it how you want but its here for everyone to read and form thier own opinion if its important to them or not ;)

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I agree 100%. If it's enough to alert USARK, then it should be for all of us! Seems they did a few changes after HR 669. I tried to send an e-mail and it bouced back from everyone, becuase I'm not a California resident. Blah! I still want to speak up for Californian's :D

I have a question related to this legislation.. How are expos viewed by the law? Does anyone know?

I would assume that both the terms "swap meet" and "flea market" (albeit temporary flea market) would possibly apply.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

I have a question related to this legislation.. How are expos viewed by the law? Does anyone know?

I would assume that both the terms "swap meet" and "flea market" (albeit temporary flea market) would possibly apply.

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Herein lies the rub.

This has been amended twice. USARK and PIJAC has had ample opportunity to chime in and make sure that our hobby was safe from this legislation. Other groups have had their activities specifically excluded from the bill.

Why? Because this is a bill targeted at a specific activity that any animal lover would find odious. Blindly targeting the bill as unfair would continue to doom the transactions that this bill is aimed at protecting animals from.

My suggestion would be to have USARK and PIJAC put their collective heads together and require that the bill define "swap meet" and/or add reptile shows and expos to the already long list of exclusions.

Sending mailers out to people to torpedo legislation that's actually aimed at preventing a type of animal abuse because they were late in jumping in on the amendment process is, well, stupid.

No one can argue that AB 1122 is not vaguely written and badly worded. Here is a link to a letter outlining ways that it could be improved and amended to eliminate confusion about reptile shows, handing off purchases in neutral locations, etc.

http://www.usspco.com/id19.html

I recommend reading the whole thing - not just skimming through it and jumping to conclusions about what the author is trying to say......

They canceled it :banana::banana::banana: