the latest date before you consider a female eggbound

So over here I'm at day 41 waiting for my female to drop eggs. What is the absolute latest day (#) after the pre-lay shed before you consider a female eggbound? She has been off feed for 1 1/2 months (she NEVER misses a meal), she's lumpy, and looks miserable. She has also been bowl wrapping, and seeking the cool side. Any help?

Have you noticed her laying inverted or positioning the eggs?

yes, recently she was been laying in very weird positions, and the past few days she has been doing the "perfect coil" thing

I have a dumb question...The shed..Are you sure she ovulated before that shed..if shes lumpy I'd shay she hasn't ovulated yet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joshthaxton

yes, recently she was been laying in very weird positions, and the past few days she has been doing the "perfect coil" thing

---

One sign to look for when she is in her perfect coil, is where her tail is placed. They will normally lay in a coil with their head in the middle. When you see her place her tail in the middle instead, you can probably start looking for eggs.

As to your original question, I had a female last year go 57 days before laying. This year, my first clutch went 37 days. The longest I have ever heard was from Stan Chiras, and he had a female go 82 days. I usually don't start getting antsy until about day 60. However, every female I have that goes past 35 days, I start to check for signs of problems. I know I have mentioned this before, but you can pick up the female, and hold her head up, and her tail toward the ground. Look how close the eggs move toward the cloaca. If they stop a few inches prior to the cloac, there could be something stopping them from moving down. It is risky, and should be done by someone a bit more experienced, but you can try to palpate the eggs a bit toward the cloaca, in an attempt to see if there is a twist in the duct or some other issue. Lastyl, if you can see that the first egg closest to the cloaca is larger than the rest, you can attempt to aspirate the egg, in an attempt to make it a bit smaller, and easier to pass.

I am in no means advising anyone to do any of the above things, but they are some things to think about, and are some of the things that more experienced people do. I will say that I typically like to do as much with my snakes as possible, as experience only comes one way, and that is by doing.

I hope that helps,

Bowl wrapping and laying on cool side are usually signs of building not laying. When they are approaching laying they will do the coil over the hot spot for long periods. Like Ed said, are you sure you saw an ovulation?

I am 99% positive I saw her ovulate. I was pairing them up, and she had separated herself from the male a few days before. Before that, they were always together. I tried to keep pairing but she wouldn't have any of it, she would just sit on one side of the tank, and him on the other. After I "saw" her ovulate, she began laying inverted etc.. etc...She has been off feed for over a month now, hasn't lost any weight, and is still glowing. Recently, I have seen her doing the perfect coil thing, and like you said, w/ the TAIL in the center.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joshthaxton

I am 99% positive I saw her ovulate. I was pairing them up, and she had separated herself from the male a few days before. Before that, they were always together. I tried to keep pairing but she wouldn't have any of it, she would just sit on one side of the tank, and him on the other. After I "saw" her ovulate, she began laying inverted etc.. etc...She has been off feed for over a month now, and is still glowing. Recently, I have seen her doing the perfect coil thing, and like you said, w/ the TAIL in the center.

---

Big clue there..females DO NOT glow after their POS!!

If shes still glowing I tell tell you with some certainty that she did not OVY! he going off feed means shes getting ready to OVY!.. But if she's glowing then she has not gown through her POS.

Hope that clears things up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Big clue there..females DO NOT glow after their POS!!

If shes still glowing I tell tell you with some certainty that she did not OVY! he going off feed means shes getting ready to OVY!.. But if she's glowing then she has not gown through her POS.

Hope that clears things up.

---

no no no, SHE went off feed. She never goes off feed. I have had her for almost 2 years and the longest she's ever gone w/o eating is like the week she's in shed. I apologize, she's not actually GLOWING glowing, what I meant to say was she was glowing.

From what you have stated in prior posts it doesnt sound like she is to the egg building stage yet. With the seeking cool, bowl wrapping, and everything else. But as anyone that has breed more than a few clutches will tell you, there is no book handed out to snakes about what they are supposed to do and when. If she is indeed at day 41 after her prelay shed, then at this point you should be able to see the eggs in the lower portion of the snake just by holding her up. When you look if there is even a maybe in your head that an egg is in there then I would highly doubt she is as far along as you suspect.

As far as to when you need to start worrying about being egg bound, I was told earlier in the year to not get to excited until after day 60. I also read someone say that when you elevate the tail, that you can assume that everything is fine, if you can see that first egg moving with the gravity then she most likely is not egg bound.

And after the day 60, i was also told to keep an eye out for the snake becoming very lethargic. Like to the point that her tongue flick will be in slow motion. This is a very bad thing, obviously, and vet visit should be in immediate order.

Otherwise my only recommendation is to try not to drive yourself crazy, much easier said than done, I know. My first clutch this year laid at day 54 and so I know how stressful this is.

If possible feel free to post pics and it might be easier to confirm that she does in fact have eggs and keep everyone from jumping the gun and assuming that she hasnt ovulated yet.

This is the best pic of what I thought her ovulation was. I know it doesn't look like it because she's laying on top of herself, but during that week, and the week prior she didn't eat. I woke up and she looked like this. This was after she had separated herself from her male on multiple occasions, (after months of pairing up) and she was no longer "taking" to him.

http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/t...osh/ovy002.jpg

http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/t...osh/ovy001.jpg

weeks after she continued to eat up until about a month ago. I witnessed her laying inverted, like such:

http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/t.../athena001.jpg

afterwards, the "lumpyness" i was referring to looked like this:

http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/t.../athena005.jpg

http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/t.../athena006.jpg

I don't have a glow picture, but the best way I can describe it is she had some VERY sudden, intense blushing down the back of her neck that was VERY bright gold and the black spider patterns closest to her head were actually blushed out like that of a pastel.

I forgot to also add that since her "PLS" she hasn't shed since. Does that mean anything at all?

Quote:

---

So over here I'm at day 41 waiting for my female to drop eggs.

---

If you are truly at day 41, you can as Tim already explained pick up your female hold her head up, and her tail toward the ground and clearly see the eggs moving in her.

If you do not clearly see the eggs than your timeline is wrong which can happen.

As for when to panick I would not panick at day 41, I think for me day 55 would be when I would start to worry.

Bumping this thread out of curiosity. What happened to the female?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joshthaxton

I am 99% positive I saw her ovulate. I was pairing them up, and she had separated herself from the male a few days before. Before that, they were always together. I tried to keep pairing but she wouldn't have any of it, she would just sit on one side of the tank, and him on the other. After I "saw" her ovulate, she began laying inverted etc.. etc...She has been off feed for over a month now, hasn't lost any weight, and is still glowing. Recently, I have seen her doing the perfect coil thing, and like you said, w/ the TAIL in the center.

---

Big Gunns has found that inexperienced keepers 99% is more like 25%. Nothing personal...just BG's experience.:D

Here's what BG has to say to all. Unless you see your female attempting to lay eggs and in obvious distress, it's best not to mess with them. BG has had them go over a month after pos and deliver good eggs. Usually if you take them to a vet because YOU THINK they are egg bound....you're gonna lose the eggs...and a good chance....the female.

Obviously it's a personal decision, but unless you have a top notch vet that knows his/her stuff. Leave the female alone unless you notice distress. BG believes this to be the best option given all the experience he has....and all the experience he knows other people have had with this problem.

BG even knows someone in a lawsuit(he says) with a vet because of this problem. The Vet killed the snake.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elise.m

Bumping this thread out of curiosity. What happened to the female?

---

Big Gunns meant to say 2 months after post ovulation shed. In other words...over a month late. It happens(they're late) a lot actually.