Best harness/leash for Sav. Monitor

Vinnie has outgrown his reptile harness. he had one of these:

http://www.reptilesupply.com/images/643854800305.jpg

so now i'm looking at getting him a new harness. should i get a ferret one or a small/toy dog one?

I've seen pics of people using small dog/cat ones but I think the ferret ones would not fit well as they are quite skinny all of thier lifes. Buy a cheaper one thenreturn it if it doesn't fit right. BTW how do you get it to want to put on the harness??

at first he struggled, but after doing it a few times every day for a few days, now he wants to be put in his harness. he knows if he gets his harness put on then he gets to roam around outside his enclosure. the first time i put him in one, he immediately wanted to scurry away, he didnt gator roll just tried to run. i usually put on my handling gloves when i put his harness on just so i dont get scratched up by his nails. he likes to grab onto me while i handle him.
my friend has a sav. monitor that literally when you get the leash and harness out he rolls over on his back and waits for you to put his harness on. these guys are pretty smart and respond to some training. they respond to certain cues.

Me and my buddy tried to put one on his a. tegu, that didnt go as planned.

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Originally Posted by Tyger9791

my friend has a sav. monitor that literally when you get the leash and harness out he rolls over on his back and waits for you to put his harness on. these guys are pretty smart and respond to some training. they respond to certain cues.

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If it is possible do you think you could get a video of that??? I want to show my girlfriend who greatly disbelieves in any reptile intelligence that you really can compare some behaviors with that of dogs.. hence the "dog-tame monitors" people talk about.

all your going to due is stress the monitor out and thats not good.

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"dog-tame monitors" people talk about

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Those so called dog tame monitors, this is how you get them. Keep low basking temps and feed once a week, they will become lazy and guess what at the same time you will be slowing killing it. Monitors are mostly hands off animals and are more for looking/observing, if you want a healthy monitor keep the basking spot high and feed ?days (depends on size and species). They will live for 15+ years compared to the "dog tame" monitors which rarely exceed a year or two

They can become accostumed to you if they are healthy but they won't sit on your lap like lap dog or grr feed from your mouth. The person on the net who is teaching people that it's ok to house train them actually killed her's in less then two years ,drowned a few and needed to "break" hers in. Of course putting a leash on them so they can roam for a bit outside thier cage in my opinion is ok as long as it's not for a long time(say +3 hours unless the outside temps are hot and humid) and you read your pet's cues,like if it hisses or becomes agressive, also never take a hiding sav out of it's "safe" spot. Of course some of the sav training out there is rediculous. Paper training is honestly a waist of time as you should't have them out that long and it's stressfull, letting them sleep with you also stupid and the most idiotic thing yet is to let young kids climb on, try to kiss, and feed a sav while out of the enclosure. that's just calling for the monitor to hurt your kid as they are still considered "wild" even if they come when called!!

i only put a leash and harness on him to take him out of his enclosure to go outside so he can run around a bit and get some sunlight and some exercise so he doesnt get fat and lazy.
i saw the videos on youtube of some lady letting a monitor feed from her mouth, she held a piece of meat in her mouth and let the monitor take it from her. there was another one of her demonstrating how she teaches a monitor to "give her kisses" for food. thats nuts to me, i wont even make my dog do that!
i feed my monitor using tongs, and he's a healthy growing boy! he has a hot basking spot and is truly spoiled.
if he hisses or thrashes about or is in shed i let him be. i want him to be tame and not overly aggressive, but i'm not going to leave him in a cool state or underfeed him so i get a sick, lethargic, "dog tame" monitor. thats cruel.
but i want to let him get exercise safely, so yes i put a leash on him so he cant run off. these guys are quick and can climb a tree pretty fast. i dont want him to get hurt or escape.

How 'bout giving him a large enough cage so you won't have to take him out like a dog?

A bit of "real" sunlight is good for them. Of course a big cage is good too but an occasional sunning is good. A lightbulb can't really compair to real sun and outside is good for enrichment as in the wild they travel great distances just for food. Of course you could just make a dog run and put him in it but in my area he'd be stolen.

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Originally Posted by qiksilver

How 'bout giving him a large enough cage so you won't have to take him out like a dog?

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No enclosure in the world can substitute for outside.

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Originally Posted by BSM

all your going to due is stress the monitor out and thats not good.



Those so called dog tame monitors, this is how you get them. Keep low basking temps and feed once a week, they will become lazy and guess what at the same time you will be slowing killing it. Monitors are mostly hands off animals and are more for looking/observing, if you want a healthy monitor keep the basking spot high and feed ?days (depends on size and species). They will live for 15+ years compared to the "dog tame" monitors which rarely exceed a year or two

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I honestly couldn't agree more.

A Tegu/Monitor on a leash is asking for trouble. What happens if your animal manages to get loose from the leash? What happens if you are walking your lizard and it bites someone? The possibilities are limitless and not worth it.

If you want to give them natural sunlight, build them a enclosure outdoors where they can NATURALLY enjoy the sunlight. These animals are not dogs, far from it. While they can be "calmed" down, they will never like being on a leash. They will never like attention from you, they will tolerate it.

Seems my point was lost on everyone but Crissy.

Buying a leash for a monitor is pointless, and if you want a dog, go to the shelter and adopt a puppy.

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Originally Posted by qiksilver

seems my point was lost on everyone but crissy.

Buying a leash for a monitor is pointless, and if you want a dog, go to the shelter and adopt a puppy.

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x2

That's kind of mean to tell her to go get a dog. I have seen pics of snakes with harnesses, cats, hermit crabs ,hamsters you name it .If all the other husbandry issues are good then why not use a harness? The thing with savs is no one knows about them really. Housing,feeding,stress .

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Originally Posted by rebeccabecca

That's kind of mean to tell her to go get a dog. I have seen pics of snakes with harnesses, cats, hermit crabs ,hamsters you name it .If all the other husbandry issues are good them why not use a harness? The thing with savs is no one knows about them really. Housing,feeding,stress .

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I'm sorry, but just because someone does something, doesn't mean they should. Placing a harness on a Hermit Crab or snake, it seems pretty, yeah..not smart?

I don't think it was meant to be mean or hurtful, rather to make a point. If you want something to WANT attention from you, get a dog. If you want something to WANT to walk with you, get a dog. If you want something to admire it's power and beauty, get a Monitor.

Can you effectively harness train a monitor or tegu? Yes, I believe you can. It won't be you walking the monitor, rather them walking you. That being said, once again, just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

Anyone who has kept a Monitor/Tegu inside throughout it's life knows once it gets outside for the first several times (and sometimes forever), it becomes extremely aggressive and stressed. Now add a leash/harness to this equation. It's quite simply a bad idea that can lead to yourself or your animal becoming harmed.

If you want to give them natural sunlight, build a small outdoor enclosure (or a large one) and let them get the sunlight without the stress of a giant primate standing over them (possibly plotting to eat them).

Monitors/Tegus should be purchased with the knowledge that you may NEVER be able to "tame" them. Most do calm down, but some are always going to be wild and aggressive.

But didn't you just say that after a monitor goes out for the first few times they react badly then how can an outdoor enclosure be any good for them??? just asking.

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Originally Posted by rebeccabecca

But didn't you just say that after a monitor goes out for the first few times they react badly then how can an outdoor enclosure be any good for them??? just asking.

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They react badly to your presence, especially when you have a leash on them. They have nowhere to escape and they are tethered to you (again, with no place to run). If you build them a small outdoor enclosure, you can apply all of the gaining trust rules that you started out with. Setting inside (or if there isn't enough room, outside) of the enclosure, waiting for them to approach you, etc. They'll become comfortable with you outside, as well.

I'm not saying you can't leash train your Monitor/Tegu, I'm just saying I wouldn't. It's unnecessary stress for both parties. They aren't dogs, there is no reason to take them on walks, it does not benefit them in anyway being on a leash. While sunlight is beneficial, there are other options to provide that sunlight to them.

guys i didnt mean for this to be so explosive. i guess i should have been more clear in my intentions when i asked about a good harness. i'm not doing it to be cool or to get attention just because. i'm doing it so he gets a bit of sun and also so i can take him out of his enclosure for education purposes.
really, i have already have dogs...i have 4 at home and i take care of about 400 (with the help of a staff of 25) at the local animal shelter, ok, i really dont need to "get a puppy"...i'm not taking Vinnie out for a walk like my dogs...far from it. the harness is for safety reasons. it also puts the public at ease seeing that he is partially restrained and that we are using precautions...it's like when a handler wears gloves while handling an animal. he may not wear gloves at home when he takes the snake out of the enclosure but in public he has to. so he can keep the audience calm and focused on what he is teaching them.
i take him outside and sometimes out in public for education reasons like when my organization has a field trip come through, we put leashes and harnesses on the larger lizards (iguanas, sav. monitors) when we remove them from the enclosures to let the public see and touch them. if he is grumpy that day, he doesnt go out. he is being held while on the lead in these situations. he goes for very short walks in my backyard. and i'm not about to just take him walking down the sidewalk in my neighborhood. i'm not stupid.

i'm not about to put a tegu or nile monitor on a leash. that is not going to happen.
and the statement "he may bite someone, what then?"....maybe he will. but so may my dog when i take her on a walk, you never know what may happen. it's all about responsible handling and care. i warn people not to touch his face or head. if they want to touch his skin i show them where. Children are under the impression that reptiles are slimy and yucky. i would have the young children handle a piece of shedded skin instead of "petting" vinnie. it's safer.
look, i work at an animal shelter. and we're working hard to set up education programs for students and adults. we want people to see the animals and we also want to spark interest in young minds about reptiles and to learn proper care. people just dump reptiles out into the wild here. they dont care, they think that "oh it's florida, it's warm enough, they'll survive on their own" and some do and destroy the natural ecosystem. and i want people to realize that cute little baby lizard in the pet store will become a 3-4 foot monster in a few months.
i know you all care about the animals and their proper care, i do too, very much so. at the shelter i see many mistreated reptiles come through and so many "disposed" iguanas, monitors and boas. it breaks my heart to see an adult iguana come in severly malnourished and near death because all its owner fed it was iceberg lettuce. or a ball python come in with it's face badly scarred and half eaten away by the live rats its owner tried to feed it. or people dump off monitors because they have grown too big to handle and they're not cute little things that fit in a 20 gal tank. it's totally preventable. we want to educate the public about proper care. so they realize that yes these guys can become big and a lot to handle. i cant stress that enough.

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Originally Posted by Michelle.C

They react badly to your presence, especially when you have a leash on them. They have nowhere to escape and they are tethered to you (again, with no place to run). If you build them a small outdoor enclosure, you can apply all of the gaining trust rules that you started out with. Setting inside (or if there isn't enough room, outside) of the enclosure, waiting for them to approach you, etc. They'll become comfortable with you outside, as well.

I'm not saying you can't leash train your Monitor/Tegu, I'm just saying I wouldn't. It's unnecessary stress for both parties. They aren't dogs, there is no reason to take them on walks, it does not benefit them in anyway being on a leash. While sunlight is beneficial, there are other options to provide that sunlight to them.

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The benefit of walking a monitor or any other animal is called exercise!!. Take a look at a wild caught lizard and one raised in a box, no matter how big the box, it is still a box. Since the pets don't have to hunt for food, they don't use their muscle as much or as often. I have regulars walks with my lizard when the weather is warm enough and I select an area that is not populated with a bunch of people or cars.

Interesting thread. I think a lot of the people posting "don't do that" replies are people who have never owned monitors/tegus.

Some of these animals can become accustomed to harnesses. My large male Argentine Black&White tegu took to one very well. We walked him around the yard, gently tugging him away from places he wasn't allowed to go (under the shed, into the pond and through the fence). After a couple of days, we took the harness off as he is very old (we believe 12+, as he was a rescue) and doesn't move like a youngster any more. Whenever he headed towards the "off-limits" areas, I strongly said "No", and he turned around. In fact, with the whole yard at his disposal, he would still seek me out and claw at my legs to be picked up. He still enjoys the yard in summer, along with our female, though she is still harnessed as she is only 4 and likes to do things her way. Unfortunately, he has cancer and we're not sure how much longer he will be with us.

I also had a water monitor that took to a harness quite well, and was used for educational shows at over 6 feet. And a Nile monitor who, though never harnessed, was allowed free roam of the reptile room when supervised and would take rats from your hand gentler than a dog getting table scraps. And this "doomed" tame monitor lived for over 16 years.

Chris

Here is our male Arg. We were treating him after one of his four surgeries and he realized that

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3190/...9e67a7.jpg?v=0

Sorry, got cut off...

Can't see the pic either?!

Chris

Let's try again...

Chris

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...mps_26jane.jpg

Ah sorry,

Didn't realise you were still working on this. :oops:


dr del

Yeah, sorry.

I'm at work and getting called away all the time, and I've never posted here before.

Went to the stickies and watched the video. Thanks.

Anyway, after one of his four surgeries we were treating him and he realized that if he crawls on us we stop poking-prodding. He's awesome.

Chris

Your still not going to be able to get it on most monitors on a leash without stressing them out and you will have to re strange them or put them on when there cold. Another thing to think about is how most monitors behavior changes dramatically when they are brought outside as all the noise and open space scares them. You are comparing them to tegus but they are very different from one another when being outside and in general attitudes/disposition. Due you got any pics of the nile and im sorry to hear about the tegu having cancer.

You may be able to get away with it with savannahs,black throats and possibly waters some are more mellow/calm then other species but there are still alot of dangers that can happen with them being on a leash and not all will have the same personality. They can get tangled up or if they get loose good luck catching it.

You can try to put a leash on an Argus monitor but i doubt you will get it on and there not so forgiving. If one of these get loose you will never catch them, they can run up to 25 MPH
http://i476.photobucket.com/albums/r...5/P3220168.jpg

Bryan

I understand the harness thing completely, especially for educational purposes. Yes, maybe most reptile people know that you actually shouldn't put a leash on a lizard, but most AVERAGE people - the folks we try to educate - do not know that and in fact feel 'safer' when a large lizard is 'restrained'.

I worked at a zoo with the education department, and we were required to place harnesses and leashes on the large lizards, the ferrets, the chinchilla, and the birds whenever they went out anywhere. This was more for public feelings of safety than to 'control' the animal, and the animal was always being held as well.

Having a monitor or iguana harness trained is a good thing, even if you never take them out, because the time may come when you have to put them into it just to have them out. A large outdoor enclosure is best for sunning any reptile, of course, but what about those of us who can't do that?
I live in an apartment, and so for my animals to get sunlight I have to take them out into a public area with lots of children. Only if I had a portable pen (which I plan on building) or harness could I put them down to enjoy the sun. I'm actually looking into finding a harness for my BTS so I can take him out into the grass.

Bottom line here - harnesses may not be 'natural' for large lizards, and can in fact stress them out if you don't train them properly... but for anyone who plans on taking their lizard outside around the general public, especially for educational reasons, harnesses are a good thing to get your animal used to. You just have to make sure you know what you're doing. And the OP really seems to know. :)

As to the original question of a new harness, I would go with a small cat/dog harness and make sure you keep the receipt just in case. :D