Why Are Ball Pythons Beginner Species?

Hi,

I never really got by these snakes are classified as beginner species. My sister got her first snake nearly two years ago. It was a corn snake and she didn't really know how to take care of it -- still giving her crap for that.

The baby was set up in a 40 gallon terrarium, a small heat pad, and nice furnishings. I think the only reason that snake was healthy is that it was always burrowing in the substrate we gave it, and there was plenty of it.

Nothing was measuring temperatures in that cage... thank God corn snakes are low maintenance snakes that are extremely forgiving.

Why do we recommend snakes that need a cool spot no lower than 75*? Honestly, how many households in the United States have temperatures like that? Most newbies don't know anything about thermostats, proper cage furnishings, etc. I've heard of so many "My Ball Python won't eat" threads it's not even funny.

Anyone care to explain?

Thanks,

I think it has a lot to do with their temperament. The puppy dog tame aspect of most ball pythons is probably a big plus with beginners.

I have no experience keeping other reptiles besides bps, but as a beginner it was definitely a challenge getting things right. However I think anyone that is a person truly "responsible" about keeping a live animal could do what they needed to without much difficulty. The main problem I see is the availability of proper information in places like petstores. People often invest a good amount of money based on the wrong advice from pet store people only to have us tell them they need x,y,z.

I think thats the hardest part of bps as a beginner all the conflicting information you receive and somehow being able to wade through it to come out with your own way of doing things that work.

Edit: I mean once you get the temps and humidity dialed in its pretty much easy.

They seem to be pretty hardy too. My 4 year old handles both of my snakes and while his favorite is the corn snake (I think due to the size) the ball is the one he LOVES to watch. If a 4 year old can handle the animals, they are hardy in my book. But then again, he was taught at a very YOUNG age to be gentle as we used to have a guinea pig, who was NOT hardy.

BP's can also be tempermental, meaning the first 2 weeks we had Jake, he did not eat. Freaked me out a bit, so I came on here, got some great advice, and now he's eating great.

Once I figured out how to handle, feed, temp guide, and keep the humidity up, he has been easy to pie.

Any person that is truly "responsibly" is not every person willing to buy a snake.

I mean, you can keep corn snakes (maybe even kingsnakes too) without heat in a room that's around 75*. BPs really need those temperatures right, and to me that's not what a "beginner species" is all about. Hell, my JCP is just as difficult to set up than those Ball Pythons, but thank god those aren't as common in the pet trade.

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Originally Posted by ChristinaP

They seem to be pretty hardy too. My 4 year old handles both of my snakes and while his favorite is the corn snake (I think due to the size) the ball is the one he LOVES to watch. If a 4 year old can handle the animals, they are hardy in my book. But then again, he was taught at a very YOUNG age to be gentle as we used to have a guinea pig, who was NOT hardy.

BP's can also be tempermental, meaning the first 2 weeks we had Jake, he did not eat. Freaked me out a bit, so I came on here, got some great advice, and now he's eating great.

Once I figured out how to handle, feed, temp guide, and keep the humidity up, he has been easy to pie.

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Hence my point... most newbies don't know/care for this.

I think Rich hit it on the head. Temperament all the way. And although it may be hard to get things right at first, once set up they are probably about the easiest pet in the world to keep. All the work is in the rodents.

And, regardless of all our hand wringing and fretting with exact husbandry numbers, in the end, BP's are quite bullet proof. Just ask Bruce!!!

I have rescue BP's who have suffered abuses that no other animal could have survived.

They are inexpensive, small, good temperament, common, and durable. Yes they are stressed out easily and will go off feed easily, but they can last how long without eating?

Generally, people assume 'get a heat pad' and the snake is fine. Many do survive this way and somehow eat and grow. They won't be as stress free, but they survive.
For example, my 'rescue' male had zero heat sources, hardly ever had his cage cleaned, a huge dried out water bowl, and was fed a mouse once a month or so. After 2 years of that, he's still 900g and healthy as could be.

Some people's snakes get by in similar conditions to ours, but still do fine. For example, one of my best friends keeps his ball in a 40g breeder, a branch and large hide, on aspen, with a huge water bowl and two heat lamps. Is the heat as efficient? No, but his temperatures are correct, and the large water bowl keeps the humidity up. He feeds her once a week and she's now eating live small rats fine.
I won't interlude until an issue occurs. For now, there is none.


We want ours to thrive, not survive.

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Originally Posted by Jenn

I think Rich hit it on the head. Temperament all the way. And although it may be hard to get things right at first, once set up they are probably about the easiest pet in the world to keep. All the work is in the rodents.

And, regardless of all our hand wringing and fretting with exact husbandry numbers, in the end, BP's are quite bullet proof. Just ask Bruce!!!

I have rescue BP's who have suffered abuses that no other animal could have survived.

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Temperament in my opinion is not a valid reason. Most colubrids in the pet trade have great attitudes.

Easiest pet to keep I disagree with also... back to the husbandry issues.

There will always be people that don't invest enough time or knowledge into keeping a live animal. Does that make the animal any harder or easier to keep healthy and happy, not IMO. Its all about the time and energy people are willing to put into it. Saying that all newbies don't have a clue is pretty much a stereotype like any other.

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

Temperament in my opinion is not a valid reason. Most colubrids in the pet trade have great attitudes.

Easiest pet to keep I disagree with also... back to the husbandry issues.

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When I'm helping friends get over their fear of snakes, I don't give them a cornsnake. That would be honestly stupid of me.

They're not as easy to handle, and to be honest, I've had more 'hungry' colubrids try to eat my hand then ball pythons. They move faster, while balls are easy for the beginner to hold. How hard is it to hold a snake rolled up into a tight ball and isn't moving compared to a skinnier fast and slithery cornsnake?

I'll start off by mentioning that I've seen people say that BPs are not good beginner snakes, so that is part of your answer right there. It is a matter of opinion.

I agree with what has been said so far. BPs have a great temperament, which makes them good for beginners. They also are pretty hardy. If it takes a newbie a little while to figure out how to set up their enclosure properly, the BP is unlikely to suffer any long term ill effects. We've all seen stories of some BP that was rescued after having lived for years with no heat, no humidity, etc.

Although it does require some effort, getting a proper environment set up for a BP is not hard. Also, it does not cost a lot of money. As Rich (Spaniard) pointed out, the bigger difficulty may be in sorting through all the incorrect info to find the good advice, rather than actually caring for the BP. Anyone that is willing to put in the effort and a little $$ can properly care for a BP.

Some of the more advanced species may be dangerous if not handled correctly. They may require food other than easy to obtain rodents. They may require more $$ to set up an enclosure. They may be much less forgiving of improper temps and humidity.

BPs definitely aren't the easiest snakes out there, either. But I still think they are fine for beginners. MANY people on this forum had a BP as their first snake, and were quite successful with it.

You raise an issue that not everyone will put in the little extra effort. This is true, but it is true with every species, even cats & dogs. It is a sad fact that we have to deal with that in this hobby and in all cases of animal ownership, there will always be those few who neglect and/or abuse their animals. If we started saying that animals that require a little effort to take care of them properly should not be beginner species, then pretty soon PETA would have their way and no one will own any animals at all.

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

Hence my point... most newbies don't know/care for this.

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Never said all newbies, most newbies. Not stereotyping here.

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Originally Posted by Spaniard

There will always be people that don't invest enough time or knowledge into keeping a live animal. Does that make the animal any harder or easier to keep healthy and happy, not IMO. Its all about the time and energy people are willing to put into it. Saying that all newbies don't have a clue is pretty much a stereotype like any other.

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Trust me, I'm well aware that there are people like that. I'm getting the feeling you guys don't get what I mean.

Why are Ball Pythons beginner species if there are so many variables that should be taken into account to have a healthy, stress-free animal?

I definitely hear where your coming from!!! As a beginner not long ago I found BPs to be extremely hard to care for and get everything exactly right! I agree with those who say the temperament and size is the only reason they are classified as beginner snakes.

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

When I'm helping friends get over their fear of snakes, I don't give them a cornsnake. That would be honestly stupid of me.

They're not as easy to handle, and to be honest, I've had more 'hungry' colubrids try to eat my hand then ball pythons. They move faster, while balls are easy for the beginner to hold. How hard is it to hold a snake rolled up into a tight ball and isn't moving compared to a skinnier fast and slithery cornsnake?

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Eh, my BPs are never in a ball when I'm handling them... it's a sign of stress, I'm sure you're well aware of that.

Based on what you've owned and through your own personal knowledge - create a list that you would suggest to new owners... Where are ball pythons on this list?

Ball Pythons are not hard to care for, IMO... granted - they are the only Snake i've ever owned, so my experience is limited.

I did own some crested geckos. They were a lot harder to care for than ball pythons.

My bp's set up is minimal and I've got monster feeders that still make me jump every time I feed them.

People want a snake that will get big, but not too big. Ball pythons are perfect for that. Their full grown size is an appeal to a lot of people.

I'm sure they are a little more challenging than corn snakes - but I don't see that as a reason to say they're NOT good beginner snakes. I don't think it's essential that you START with something like a corn snake. I started with BP's, like a lot of people did, and don't regret it.

The best way to learn is through first hand experience. Yes - at one time I was one of these kids that had a tank with a heat pad and didn't know what I was doing. That's why I found a forum like BP.net and started asking questions. There is NOTHING wrong with that.

Because some people don't want a colubrid to start out with, and if you don't want a colubrid what choices are you left with?

My point is that anything could be a beginner species given the proper amount of time, research, effort and money.

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

Eh, my BPs are never in a ball when I'm handling them... it's a sign of stress, I'm sure you're well aware of that.

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Not necessarily.
I don't think ball pythons ball up because of stress at all. Hence their name 'ball pythons' they will ball up when they are frightened or concerned about their surroundings.
I would be concerned if an animal 100x my size picked me up and tried to play with me too. A perfectly stress free snake can ball up because it is afraid of the owner. I personally only have 2/6 that will frequently ball up, but it really depends on the snake. All are in the same set-up, temps, and eat each week like clockwork.

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Originally Posted by Nate

Based on what you've owned and through your own personal knowledge - create a list that you would suggest to new owners... Where are ball pythons on this list?

Ball Pythons are not hard to care for, IMO... granted - they are the only Snake i've ever owned, so my experience is limited.

I did own some crested geckos. They were a lot harder to care for than ball pythons.

My bp's set up is minimal and I've got monster feeders that still make me jump every time I feed them.

People want a snake that will get big, but not too big. Ball pythons are perfect for that. Their full grown size is an appeal to a lot of people.

I'm sure they are a little more challenging than corn snakes - but I don't see that as a reason to say they're NOT good beginner snakes. I don't think it's essential that you START with something like a corn snake. I started with BP's, like a lot of people did, and don't regret it.

The best way to learn is through first hand experience. Yes - at one time I was one of these kids that had a tank with a heat pad and didn't know what I was doing. That's why I found a forum like BP.net and started asking questions. There is NOTHING wrong with that.

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I do disagree. I'm still pretty pissed at my sister for not knowing what the hell she was doing, but my first snake, my cheynei, got a lot of money put into him.

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Originally Posted by Spaniard

Because some people don't want a colubrid to start out with, and if you don't want a colubrid what choices are you left with?

My point is that anything could be a beginner species given the proper amount of time, research, effort and money.

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My point is that beginner snakes should not need to have all that much time, research, effort, and money put into it.

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

Hence my point... most newbies don't know/care for this.

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If they're really truely responsible pet owners, they will

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

Most colubrids in the pet trade have great attitudes.

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Although this statement is more or less true, it is not true in the same way it is for BPs. Most BPs have excellent temperament from the second they hatch until they die. I've even seen plenty of people talking about taking a mother off her eggs and she only hissed.

Most colubrids are spastic as hatchlings, which can make them a little difficult to handle by the time you consider how delicate the little things are. They may bite and/or musk. They rattle their tails, which to some is quite intimidating.

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

My point is that beginner snakes should not need to have all that much time, research, effort, and money put into it.

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Thats your opinion and you're entitled to it, I however wouldn't change my choice in getting bps as my first snake for anything. No matter how easy something is there are people out there that will screw it up, that's life.

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Originally Posted by ChristinaP

If they're really truely responsible pet owners, they will

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If all the world leaders were nice people, there wouldn't be war either.

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Originally Posted by kc261

Although this statement is more or less true, it is not true in the same way it is for BPs. Most BPs have excellent temperament from the second they hatch until they die. I've even seen plenty of people talking about taking a mother off her eggs and she only hissed.

Most colubrids are spastic as hatchlings, which can make them a little difficult to handle by the time you consider how delicate the little things are. They may bite and/or musk. They rattle their tails, which to some is quite intimidating.

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All I said is that Ball Pythons aren't the only species of snake that has good temperament, so that cannot be the main reason for BPs being beginner snakes.

Before you get ANY pet, you need to research care. This includes basic pets such as cats, dogs, fish even. Some people say guinea pigs are easy, mine sure wasn't. Some people say cats are easy, I had one pass because of a blockage in his urethra and couldn't pee. My dog gets demodectic mage once a year (she has an immune system disorder) and yet dogs are considered "easy beginner" pets, hence people get them for their children to care for.

Same with balls, once you research how to care for them, the really are easy to care for. Check your temps, fed every so often, clean the cage, keep the humidity a certain level. Not much different. If you really are responsible you will do the research.

I kept wc garters before I ever purchased a snake. My first purchase was a corn. Then I bought another corn. Then I bought my first BP. Now my house is filled with BP's and I hardly ever handle my corns anymore. I just keep them for display. My recommendation for a first snake... Skip right over the corns.

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Originally Posted by ChristinaP

If they're really truely responsible pet owners, they will

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That changes the discussion for me from "Why is a BP a good beginner snake?" to "What makes a good beginning snake owner?" The general idea that I'm getting of the definition of a beginner snake owner is someone who sees them in the pet store, gets googly eyed and says "OOOh, that's sooo cool! I gotta have one!" Tells the clerk to set them up with all the "expensive" gear they just have to have and takes the snake home with a book (if the snake is lucky) and sets about attempting to keep the snake alive.

I am new snake owner but don't feel I fall into the category of "beginner" as I just described. My wife and I did a ton of research before we ever even picked a BP up to handle it. We had our enclosure set up for days before we ever brought her home to make sure temps and humidities were just right. We made our decision to get a BP on sound judgement regarding the snakes needs and our desires. Now, does that make a BP a good beginner snake? Yes, for us. It's folks that do the "I wanna snake and that's all" thing that generate bills like HR669 and news items about little Billy getting choked out by a Red Tail.

Sorry for the rant. I'm big on personal responsibility and folks that gets pets without doing the research first to ensure they can give a good home roast my chestnuts.:mad:

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Originally Posted by The Letch

That changes the discussion for me from "Why is a BP a good beginner snake?" to "What makes a good beginning snake owner?" The general idea that I'm getting of the definition of a beginner snake owner is someone who sees them in the pet store, gets googly eyed and says "OOOh, that's sooo cool! I gotta have one!" Tells the clerk to set them up with all the "expensive" gear they just have to have and takes the snake home with a book (if the snake is lucky) and sets about attempting to keep the snake alive.

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That question I feel has been answered. Temperment, size, hardiness, easy to clean habitat, feeding, heck cost of food even. The other stuff comes (humidity and temp) with research, which is why I am soooooooooo big into research and responsibilities. I don't think you understood what I was saying.

I have to agree 110% with Casey. She hit it on the head!

I think the problem is you are comparing ball pythons to all of the other animals in the pet trade. Can you honestly think of any other snake or reptile that is easier to manage, incredibly hardy, very unlikely to strike and comes with a low price tag?

Everything about ball pythons is easy compared to other snakes. Corns are flighty and often poop on their handlers, milks and kings musk and pee, that is a big turn off for people. They may have different requirements that are easier to meet (as in, a heat lamp is sufficient), but by far I would rather handle a ball ANY day over a corn snake!

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Originally Posted by ChristinaP

That question I feel has been answered. Temperment, size, hardiness, easy to clean habitat, feeding, heck cost of food even. The other stuff comes (humidity and temp) with research, which is why I am soooooooooo big into research and responsibilities. I don't think you understood what I was saying.

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All of what I bolded plus the "coolness" factor of telling your friends you have a python is what makes it such a popular (perhaps not necessarily best but popular) first snake. The folks that are after the "coolness" factor first and foremost simply aren't going to do the research beforehand and the items that I bolded will enable (usually) them to keep a snake alive long enough to do the research after the fact. Just my .02

As to what you're trying to say... I think I understand but this particular medium of conversation isn't all that great at conveying almost ethereal concepts. I find it very difficult sometimes to fully express myself on a forum.

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Originally Posted by The Letch

The folks that are after the "coolness" factor first and foremost simply aren't going to do the research beforehand

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I dunno about that. I bought all of my animals because I thought they we're cool! :P

Here is why I tell people that I suggest Ball Pythons too.

1: Their relative small size makes them I deal for even children to handle and keep.
2: Their temperament is more predictable have other python and Boa species.
3: They aren't typically as flighty as some colubrids can be.
4: They are a little more heavy bodied snake so for people that want to hold a more substantial snake they are your ones

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

I dunno about that. I bought all of my animals because I thought they we're cool! :P

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See what happens when I make a blanket statement? I get my foot in my mouth. :oops:

It goes back to this not being a good medium for full expression. Short story... I went to pick up a mouse for Bhodi and there was a young man (early 20s) and his girlfriend looking at a Red Tail that the store had. He insisted that they get the snake and was telling her how cool it would be to have a snake. She wanted to do some research to see how big they got, care, feeding etc. The guy at the pet store was just looking to make a sale and was down playing how much room they'd need and how big they really can get. He had no idea what he was about to get himself into. He just thought it would be "cool" to have a snake. Luckily his girlfriend won out and he agreed to research snakes before buying one. Had the GF not been there he'd have been one of those "coolness factor" people I was talking about.

Ball pythons are good (if not the best) beginner pets because (just a few things off the top of my head):

*They don't require much work at all
*You only have to feed them once a week
*you can change their water out every couple of days and be fine
*you can show your friends, and let them hold the snake without worry of harm to the snake or the friend
*you can handle them regularly without harm to the snake.
*Once they get used to you holding them they become VERY calm. I have a few balls that will sit on my chest during an entire football game.
*If you go thru a busy period in life, and don't have much time to spend with the snake, it will be fine. just a couple minutes a week to clean, water and feed. That snake does not care one bit if it goes months without hanging out with you.
*as soon as a BP realizes you are not food, they will NOT bite you.
*If you are bitten, the worse you will get is a scratch
*Once you get the temps / setup right, you are done. other than cleaning, feeding, and watering nothing else is needed
*the little bit of work they do require teaches responsibility... but it is not so much work to be overwhelming
*they don't get too big
*they are VERY inexpensive to keep compared to a more traditional pet like a cat or dog
*you don't have to train a ball python!!!
*It is extremely rare for them to die young if you are doing everything right.
*If they do escape, 9 times out of 10 you will find them sooner or later unharmed
*they don't require any special / expensive lights
*setup can be as simple as a tub, uth, water bowl, hides from tuperware containers, and newspaper
*setup can be as complicated as you want, tank, bowls, limbs, greenery, fancy hides, lights, fancy substrate, ect
*they can be as inexpensive as a $20 - $30 normal at a show
*they don't bark in the middle of the night, dig holes, or chew up valuables
*they don't pee all over the house, and rip things up with their claws
*you don't have to worry about them going outside and coming bag pregnant
*you would have to be pretty dam unlucky for them to get hit by a car
*a kid who gets a BP at 10 could have the snake when he is 40. that in my opinion is priceless
*If you ever had to get rid of the snake, it is not hard to find someone who will take it. ( I would venture to say it is MUCH easier find a home for a 6 year old python then it is a 6 year old cat or dog or whatever else)
*As Americas #1 pet snake, there are huge amounts of information on the web and in books.
*as the keeper grows up they can infinitely grow their hobby. the sky is the limits! they can get into morphs, and breeding, and everything else that most of us now do.
*They are SOOO cool!

Now I challenge you to find another pet or snake species that can meet all the above stated points at the same time. Cornsnakes and other colourbrids are a close second, but they are second. Just the fact that they don't want to sit still and are harder to handle is enough for them to be second to the BP.

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

I do disagree.

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disagree with what? That I came here to ask questions?

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

I have a few balls that will sit on my chest during an entire football game.

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:rofl::rofl::rofl:

oh dear...

I say ball pythons are not a beginner snake. As most beginners wind up buying from a pet store and suckered into a huge tank and heat lamps.

Then we find them on here asking same question over and over why wont my python eat or shed right and i cant keep the humidity at the right level.

IMHO ball pythons should be your 2nd or 3rd snake so you can get the skill of caring for a snake more tolerant of humidity and temp failures/fluctuations.

Ball pythons need SPECIFIC requirements to be met if not you have picky eaters and or unhealthy all around.

That's why i say no to beginner snake.

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Originally Posted by flameethrower

I say ball pythons are not a beginner snake. As most beginners wind up buying from a pet store and suckered into a huge tank and heat lamps.

Then we find them on here asking same question over and over why wont my python eat or shed right and i cant keep the humidity at the right level.

IMHO ball pythons should be your 2nd or 3rd snake so you can get the skill of caring for a snake more tolerant of humidity and temp failures/fluctuations.

Ball pythons need SPECIFIC requirements to be met if not you have picky eaters and or unhealthy all around.

That's why i say no to beginner snake.

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Ok, so what then would you consider a beginner snake and why?

I consider a good beginner snake to be King snakes,Corn snakes, Basically any colubrid as they are more tolerant of beginners mistakes. As in temperature fluctuations and humidity levels being off during sheds and daily requirements.

They also are garbage disposals as they eat almost anything when offered properly sized meals. Ive yet to have a king,rat,or corn or gopher refuse a meal from me in all my years.

Also colubrids when adults don't mind larger setups as well. Since ther more active love to climb and roam more. Ball pythons don't roam like them and refer the smaller tighter setups.

This is why i dont refer Ball pythons as beginners unless you have prior knowledge of them and feel you can provide all the specific requirements for them.

And to add for people who already have ball pythons set up, they seem EASY for us to go buy one and set them up in 3 mins.

Think back to your first and how much you thought on setting them up.

All the points that have been brought up so far for owning a colubrid seem to be their flexibility when it comes to husbandry. How forgiving they are to mistakes made by the owner. Makes me feel like this thread should be titled "Best snake for negligent pet owners?" (Nothing against those who own them)

I don't feel that there is a specific beginner animal. Everything is relative to the potential new owner. What do THEY want in a snake. What can THEY provide that snake in the terms of care. How much effort do THEY want to invest. Its up to the person buying to do the research and make the appropriate decision to fit their unique situation. Because some people fail miserably at this does not mean that it is the snakes' fault.

edit: nevermind.

Reading a lot of forums, I would guess bps are not a very easy snake to keep, but reading the right forums, I know they are.
I am a bit pissed off by german herp forums, because most of the people here (germany) tend to keep bps (even hatchlings) in far too large vivs (sometimes even higher than wide, because "my snake loves to climb and is active all day".....:mad:) and then start to wonder why their ball wont eat.
I got into balls because of this forum and set my boys tub up, following the hints on this site, he is doing well, eating good and i am very pleased owning him.
But... I do not know how the situation would be, if i would not know your page.
To tell you the truth, my boa and my corn are by far easier homemates, who never refused a meal and stuff... If I would not have researched on this page, sometimes I would have had sleepless nights because of the ball.

They are considered beginner because whether you believe it or not Ball Pythons are not hard to keep IF you do some research prior to making a purchase and know what you are doing. (just like everything else you can keep)

They are considered beginner snake due to their size, temperament, and ease to handle.

Yes colubrids are good beginner snake too however they have a different temperament and the handling experience is not the same and not as appealing to some, I don’t even talk about their tendency to musk when and the nipping of young individual.

I have no issue with people owning a BP as their first snake and would recommend them to someone who is looking to purchase their first snake of course it would depend on their age, expectations, ability to meet the animal’s needs and how much work they want to put in it.

Whether or not a snake is a beginner level snake, is a combination of commitment, husbandry, disposition and size of the individual, it’s not all about one thing.

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Originally Posted by Nate

Based on what you've owned and through your own personal knowledge - create a list that you would suggest to new owners... Where are ball pythons on this list?

Ball Pythons are not hard to care for, IMO... granted - they are the only Snake i've ever owned, so my experience is limited.

I did own some crested geckos. They were a lot harder to care for than ball pythons.

My bp's set up is minimal and I've got monster feeders that still make me jump every time I feed them.

People want a snake that will get big, but not too big. Ball pythons are perfect for that. Their full grown size is an appeal to a lot of people.

I'm sure they are a little more challenging than corn snakes - but I don't see that as a reason to say they're NOT good beginner snakes. I don't think it's essential that you START with something like a corn snake. I started with BP's, like a lot of people did, and don't regret it.

The best way to learn is through first hand experience. Yes - at one time I was one of these kids that had a tank with a heat pad and didn't know what I was doing. That's why I found a forum like BP.net and started asking questions. There is NOTHING wrong with that.

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Originally Posted by Nate

disagree with what? That I came here to ask questions?

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When I read your post it seemed like "There is NOTHING wrong with that" referred to this:

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Yes - at one time I was one of these kids that had a tank with a heat pad and didn't know what I was doing.

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And some of you say BPs are not difficult to take care of when you've done your homework... isn't this true for nearly every single species of snake in captivity?

I've never heard anyone talk about Emerald Boas as being "beginner snakes", yet they're easy to take care of once set up properly. I'm not seeing that as a valid reason for BPs being beginner snakes at all whatsoever.

To me there have been no reasons for BPs being good beginner snakes in this thread that I didn't already know about...I just don't think they're good enough for these snakes to qualify as beginner snakes because many advanced snakes have the same characteristics of what you all call the "beginner snakes"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

Hi,

I

Why do we recommend snakes that need a cool spot no lower than 75*? Honestly, how many households in the United States have temperatures like that?
Thanks,

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Chicago winters, silly southerner

There's the key word

Quote:

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To me

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If YOU do not think BP are not a good beginner snake it's ok I, don't own one, don't recommend one to someone looking for a first snake that is as easy as that, however it will not change the fact that their disposition, size, ease to handle make them a good beginner snake. :gj:

Quote:

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I just don't think they're good enough for these snakes to qualify as beginner snakes because many advanced snakes have the same characteristics of what you all call the "beginner snakes"

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Right, so less just recommend a retic as a beginner snakes since for YOU they have the same charactheristics.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by _Venom_

Chicago winters, silly southerner

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I'm pretty sure he meant households with temps of 75+ degrees.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

I'm pretty sure he meant households with temps of 75+ degrees.

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chicagOwned

I guess we have different definitions of what a good first snake is. Mine is one that is easy, safe, and rewarding for the kid with minimal effort. Yours apparently is what snake can be abused and not taken care of and still survive.

Generally speaking, people have an amazing ability to over complicate things unnecessarily. Care of a ball python is probably one of the best examples of that in existence.

Anyways, I am done with this subject, you are entitled to your opinion like I am mine.

I think it depends on who you are asking. Honestly some people dont care about handling the animal, as long as it eats and sheds and poops, without any complicated setup and no late night internet research, then thats a beginner animal. Other keepers who generally care about thier investment, want to know everything about the animal and its requirements and after a few months of successful bp keeping beleive its a beginner snake, get more bp's, and move on to keeping other "tougher" species. So this question is hard to answer, some people do think bp's are tough to keep and some dont.
I read this whole thread and i dont think you will get the answer your looking for. I hope this makes sense.