What is it?

Ash works at an exotic pet store, as I'm sure many of you know, and the other day a few girls caught a small snake and brought it in. Well no one knows what it is and they were gonna release it back into the wild. Ash decided she wanted to bring it home. So now we have a tiny colubrid who is as feisty as can be. It actually jumps across the tub to strike you. CRAZY! Can anyone identify it?

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._4213782_n.jpg

Looks to me like a gray, or red, rat snake. The red rat snakes are also called red corn snakes. Here is a list of all the non-venomous snakes in Tennessee http://http://www.tennsnakes.org/. There's not a whole lot of pictures, but you can do an image search with the names from that list. I'm not a rat snake person, but all the ones I've seen are pretty defensive.....even into adulthood. It may be best to release it back where it was found, or as close as possible, if you're not willing to deal with a pissy 5 foot snake. Good luck either way.

Looks like it might find a home in our back yard then. lol. IDK where it was caught.

EDIT: after looking at pics, I think its the gray.

Looks more like a racer or whipsnake, not a corn. That also explains the attitude.

If you don't let it go they tend to prefer lizards over rodents.

I thought it might be the gray also, but you'd be a better judge of that. As long as you can release it somewhere that's not close to a busy road (or any road if possible) then it'll be fine.

I live just outside of Nashville so a non-roaded place is hard to find without traveling far, but we have some rock outcroppings behind our house that i might let it go in so it has a place to ride and I have seen a blue-tailed skink out there so it might be able to find some babies or insects. I know it has eaten recently because it pooed this morning.

it's some species of racer for sure, I am jut not sure what kind! :D

Yep, racer. Babies have a different pattern than adults and have a lot of attitude. Id also say release it, WC racers dont do well in captivity a lot of the time.

eastern black rat snake, no doubt. got two if you'd like to compare :p.

blacks are often very um..... hissy? i guess that's close enough. lil monsters :D

not a racer; i don't have one at the moment, but i'll keep my eye out and post if i find one. those are very common around here, as are the coachwhips.

def black rat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ben Biscy

eastern black rat snake, no doubt.

---

Black racer, no doubt.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SerpentesCiconii

Black racer, no doubt.

---

Yup.

Not a ball python. No doubt! :rolleye2:
just kidding, I have no idea what it is. But you should let it go imho.

It looks like what my daddy called a black rat snake. We had TONS of them on our farm growing up. They grew to be HUGE (maybe not huge, I was a kid then, so things looked bigger than now) but they weren't venomous.

I have no idea what the "Correct" name for it is, just what my daddy called them.

black rat.

lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wilomn

Yup.

---

Black rat. :rolleyes:
Where are you from again? California? Try coming to the southeast and getting some real ID on these snakes.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...te987/3135.jpg

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/w...C03862copy.jpg
Racer for comparison.

Hi,

Would you mind giving proper credit and source for that picture? It looks as though it could be copyrighted material.


dr del

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blizzarddude

Black rat. :rolleyes:
Where are you from again? Republic of California? Try coming to the southeast and getting some real ID on these snakes.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...te987/3135.jpg

---

Try looking at the snake in the picture.

It's NOT a black rat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

Would you mind giving proper credit and source for that picture? It looks as though it could be copyrighted material.


dr del

---

http://www.kountrylife.com/content/gal1065.htm

Hi,

Thank you. :)


dr del

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wilomn

Try looking at the snake in the picture.

It's NOT a black rat.

---

try a trip to the carolinas. that IS a black rat snake.

sorry wilomn, you're wrong this time buddy :oops:

Baby racers go through on ontogenetic shift. They start out with a blotched pattern before transitioning into their solid adult colors. Anyone claiming it is a black rat has obviously never seen a baby racer.

And what does him being from California have to do with his ability to ID snakes?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ben Biscy

try a trip to the carolinas. that IS a black rat snake.

sorry wilomn, you're wrong this time buddy :oops:

---

SonnyJim, I ain't the mistaken one here.

I've kept and bred black rats. I have yet to see one other than the one YOU posted here.

But you go right on ASSuming you're right.

It won't be the first time someone has made that error.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SerpentesCiconii

Baby racers go through on ontogenetic shift. They start out with a blotched pattern before transitioning into their solid adult colors. Anyone claiming it is a black rat has obviously never seen a baby racer.

And what does him being from California have to do with his ability to ID snakes?

---

how about the locale? the fact that they are common where they are indigenous? i've seen literally thousands of rats and racers, babies and adults.


racers, both blue and black have red patterned markings as babies. rats are black/blueish and silver/white.

want to try again?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wilomn

SonnyJim, I ain't the mistaken one here.

I've kept and bred black rats. I have yet to see one other than the one YOU posted here.

But you go right on ASSuming you're right.

It won't be the first time someone has made that error.

---

tell you what sir; i have babies right now. i'll take a picture of a baby black rat from my collection for your comparison.

and i don't assume, i just know when i'm right and not egotistical enough to think that applies 100% of the time... :)

Arrogance, sweet, sweet arrogance....

I'm pretty sure that Nashville is someplace in Tennessee.

According to guys who should know, http://www.tennsnakes.org/, the black rat doesn't even occur in that state.

IF you would look at the eye in the first picture and then at the eye of whatever you're calling a black ratsnake I bet a smart observant guy like you will have NO difference seeing THE difference. Count a few scales too, that might give you another indication that things may not be as you think they are.

kinda didn't mean for this to become a heated debate...just curiosity...either way I let the snake go the next day in my back yard. Hopefully it hasn't drown in all the rain we have been having.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Little B-Py

kinda didn't mean for this to become a heated debate...just curiosity...either way I let the snake go the next day in my back yard. Hopefully it hasn't drown in all the rain we have been having.

---

No worries. It's just a game we boys sometimes play.

Be nice to have an actual challenge every once in a while though....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wilomn

Arrogance, sweet, sweet arrogance....

I'm pretty sure that Nashville is someplace in Tennessee.

According to guys who should know, http://www.tennsnakes.org/, the black rat doesn't even occur in that state.

IF you would look at the eye in the first picture and then at the eye of whatever you're calling a black ratsnake I bet a smart observant guy like you will have NO difference seeing THE difference. Count a few scales too, that might give you another indication that things may not be as you think they are.

---

what is this link?

black rats are the MOST seen snake in north and south carolina. the locals (aka, the ignorants) call them "black snakes". any snake that is black is a black snake.... so i can see how someone who would reference a Tennessee site/chart as the "all southeastern nonvenomous snakes" would have similar thoughts.

similar, yes. but not quite; color is the number one give away. five minutes on a yahoo search will show you what i'm talking about. don't check one site, check many and see comparisons from different states, esp sc and ga.

you'll find that rat snakes are VERY common in the area (red, yellow, black), much less than the black/blue racer, which is found more north, ie nc, tn, va.... we've got the racers too, but you don't see them very often. you're more likely to stumble upon a coachwhip than a racer.

but yeah; check the coloration of baby vs. baby. then go to counting scales and posting links.

and to the other poster, yeah; all in good fun :). i like arguing with wilomn, it's entertaining and great stress relief.

There its settled its a racer looks just like the OP's pic.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...a%3DG%26um%3D1

I got ya Wes.

Google images is soo much easier than heated debates. Then again I know how Wes love his debates. Sometimes think that he lives for them. lol. :D
Either way I would let the little guy go so he can get big and make some more evil little babies. :D
Heres a little bigger one getting darker. http://rlv.zcache.com/young_black_ra...85vsu7_500.jpg

[QUOTE=sg1trogdor;1046455]There its settled its a racer looks just like the OP's pic.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...a%3DG%26um%3D1

I got ya Wes.[/QUOTE

Yup.

Never a doubt here.

Comes with the arrogance which comes with the being right so often.

Now, if I could just get my head through my own front door....

Guys.. baby racers are born with a funny little speckled pattern. Big round ones on top, and little ones on the sides... Black rat snakes are born with a saddle pattern similar to that of a cornsnake (obviously without all the colors). NOT speckled sides. That is not, in any way, a black rat snake. You can clearly see the speckles all over the snake, and the way that they are reddish in color, not to mention his very large, angry looking amber/red eyes that say "im a racer and I am not happy with you" that racers have. The sharp labial markings and head shape are also wrong for a black rat. Baby black rats tend to have a big clunky head that looks too big for its body/neck. You can also kind of see how smooth and velvety the skin. It's a baby racer... of one species or another. it look's like it has had some time to mature a little bit to be as dark as he is. here's pictures of a newborn southern black racer I hatched. They are born light gray with red speckles, which quickly turns to very dark grayish black with speckles, like the one the OP posted... which in black racers, turns to, just all black. Unfortunately I don't have any pictures of him once he turned darker. They are REALLY, REALLY mean. Mine sat at the front of his enclosure all the time hissing and coiling at me, and would even come out of hiding to do it! Sorry but I can't tell what species the OP's snake is!!!

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/l.../Other/024.jpg

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/l.../Other/031.jpg

Scuffing his heels as he ambled down the dirt road the man whistled tunelessly, lips puckered, brows furrowed in contemplation, one foot leading the other down a road he had been on for a looooong time.

Bright, the sun. Hot too. But up ahead, just around the next curve over the top of the hill, was a pond. Deep and still, one end covered, protected, by a giant willow tree, the far end a gushing stream only a few feet wide but determined to be heard from across the water. There he would rest, sit his self down and contemplate, wonder at, muse over, just plain think about, how some folks just couldn't admit they were wrong.

He'd wonder why they couldn't. He'd think about why they didn't. He'd make up entire conversations with imaginary people just to talk out his theories but in the end he just didn't understand.

Of course, he couldn't remember the last time he had been wrong about something but he was sure he had been, must have been; wasn't everyone, sometime?

And there he'll sit, thinking and never understanding, trying to empathize but having no personal history to relate to, to fall back on, to learn from because the Arrogant SOB is right.

Again.

LOL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wilomn

Scuffing his heels as he ambled down the dirt road the man whistled tunelessly, lips puckered, brows furrowed in contemplation, one foot leading the other down a road he had been on for a looooong time.

Bright, the sun. Hot too. But up ahead, just around the next curve over the top of the hill, was a pond. Deep and still, one end covered, protected, by a giant willow tree, the far end a gushing stream only a few feet wide but determined to be heard from across the water. There he would rest, sit his self down and contemplate, wonder at, muse over, just plain think about, how some folks just couldn't admit they were wrong.

He'd wonder why they couldn't. He'd think about why they didn't. He'd make up entire conversations with imaginary people just to talk out his theories but in the end he just didn't understand.

Of course, he couldn't remember the last time he had been wrong about something but he was sure he had been, must have been; wasn't everyone, sometime?

And there he'll sit, thinking and never understanding, trying to empathize but having no personal history to relate to, to fall back on, to learn from because the Arrogant SOB is right.

Again.

LOL

---

Are you describing yourself here? :8:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wilomn

Scuffing his heels as he ambled down the dirt road the man whistled tunelessly, lips puckered, brows furrowed in contemplation, one foot leading the other down a road he had been on for a looooong time.

Bright, the sun. Hot too. But up ahead, just around the next curve over the top of the hill, was a pond. Deep and still, one end covered, protected, by a giant willow tree, the far end a gushing stream only a few feet wide but determined to be heard from across the water. There he would rest, sit his self down and contemplate, wonder at, muse over, just plain think about, how some folks just couldn't admit they were wrong.

He'd wonder why they couldn't. He'd think about why they didn't. He'd make up entire conversations with imaginary people just to talk out his theories but in the end he just didn't understand.

Of course, he couldn't remember the last time he had been wrong about something but he was sure he had been, must have been; wasn't everyone, sometime?

And there he'll sit, thinking and never understanding, trying to empathize but having no personal history to relate to, to fall back on, to learn from because the Arrogant SOB is right.

Again.

LOL

---

Beautiful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wilomn

Scuffing his heels as he ambled down the dirt road the man whistled tunelessly, lips puckered, brows furrowed in contemplation, one foot leading the other down a road he had been on for a looooong time.

Bright, the sun. Hot too. But up ahead, just around the next curve over the top of the hill, was a pond. Deep and still, one end covered, protected, by a giant willow tree, the far end a gushing stream only a few feet wide but determined to be heard from across the water. There he would rest, sit his self down and contemplate, wonder at, muse over, just plain think about, how some folks just couldn't admit they were wrong.

He'd wonder why they couldn't. He'd think about why they didn't. He'd make up entire conversations with imaginary people just to talk out his theories but in the end he just didn't understand.

Of course, he couldn't remember the last time he had been wrong about something but he was sure he had been, must have been; wasn't everyone, sometime?

And there he'll sit, thinking and never understanding, trying to empathize but having no personal history to relate to, to fall back on, to learn from because the Arrogant SOB is right.

Again.

LOL

---

I may not always agree with you (in this case I had no idea who was right), but I do love reading your posts.