bigger monsters than i thought

So i get home from school and i start cleaning the rat rack. I get the my colony of asfs. I pull out the tub and i see a dead bloody rat. Its the male. his back end it bloody and bitten. They have been together for over for 2 months now and all was well until now.
It seems like im having the worst start possible in starting to breed the asfs

Also do you think i will be able to reintro a new male with out the same result. Would you recommend trying it and watching them for a while or start all over with a new trio

I have never heard of anyone successfully introducing a new ASF to an established colony. If any of the females are preggo you can hold back a male though.

i think i have 2 preggos but im not sure yet, i have seen him doing in the act with 1 so far which was with the 2nd biggest female. so im figuring that if shes already trying to be bred then the biggest one should be too

would it be any different if i got a male weaner and put it in with the group and have him grow up with them?

it looks like ill just get a trio or 2 and start over
thanks!
Matt

no one was answering right away so i just wanted to give you some second hand knowledge and warn about introducing a new ASF that would likely end up killed as well.

I don't breed ASFs myself though so I can't give definitive answers, but i wouldn't be surprised if introducing a weaner is just as likely to result in a kill as introducing an adult.

yeah your probably right
im bummed ive spent 3 months on these guys to get this and now have to start over :(
oh well

I wanna see what other have to say or suggest other options for what i should do

feeders
add a weaner
add a small/ medium male

If they are to be feeders i will wait and see if one may be preggo first

Matt

so i decided to get a male and try and intro him into the group. I decided to put them into a glass tank so i can keep a good eye on them. when i put them in there they all faught and did their little ninja kicks and all. We all know that asfs love wheels right. So i put there wheel back in and gave them a paper towel tube... NO more fighting! they are all just trying to run on the wheel. The male is already starting to get busy too :D i hope it just stays this way!

Matt

i just realized that if the females are preggo from the other male the new male will kill the litters right away wont he?

Matt

Quote:

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Originally Posted by matt71915

i just realized that if the females are preggo from the other male the new male will kill the litters right away wont he?

Matt

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No, because you can't introduce a new male to an already established colony. So there wont be any male around to kill any babies.

i have the new male in there because i wanted to see if it can be done. And so far its working

So if the females give birth to the previous males babies wont the new male kill them?

i've always wanted to know if anyone has ever REALLY tried to find ways to introduce new males to an established colony.

What if pull one of the females and introduce the male? One female isn't exactly a "colony" anymore

that may work too
the wheel seems to be the peace keeper in the addition of the male

Matt

Just because things seem peaceful now does not mean the inevitable won't happen again. There is no doubt in my mind that if the girls attacked the genitals of the last male, they will do the same with this one in time. If the babies are born they will likely mostly all be killed by either the mom, strange male, or both. REMOVE the new male and simply set up a new breeding group with the kids. Some things can't be rushed.

When I bought my colonies, they had the males males and females in the same tank. 4 of the 5 females gave birth within 2 weeks, and I didn't have any problems out of the males with regards to killing off babies.

That is likely due to high colony numbers. When there are enough females to go around, males tend to not be as terrirtorial of females and it's pretty much a free for all.

However, it is highly risky, seeing as the females or males can easily attack because of feeling stressed from too high in numbers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

i've always wanted to know if anyone has ever REALLY tried to find ways to introduce new males to an established colony.

What if pull one of the females and introduce the male? One female isn't exactly a "colony" anymore

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Yes, I have. It didn't work.

If the female has pups, she will defend them.

well im hoping to keep this male just long enough to get them all preggo and just split them up into 2 groups and raise up a male. Its been a couple days and they seem fine. Could it maybe be that the other male was a pretty horny rat he would almost constantly be humping one after the other.
if they kill this male i will just get new trios and feed these off
Thanks everyone!

I have relocated males from one colony to another and haven't had any issues. Sometimes it does take a few weeks before the male will interact with the females though. And think its due to the fact the male is basically the lowest on the totem pole in there social organization, and all males seem to know that, so they dont over step there boundries with the females cuz they know they will lose, I have successfully added females to breeding groups to but not as commonly as males and the fighting goes up exponentially. And think it happens cuz the females build that I am top dog reputation and none of them want to lose there pre established place.

At least thats what I have experienced and concluded in my colonies.

Not talking about anyone in particular in this thread.

Generally speaking, any time someone points out something that shouldn't be done, and gives the facts of why it shouldn't be done.... There will always be someone who chimes in and says they do it without issue.

Can there be instances when you are able to introduce a new male or female to an established ASF colony? sure. Should it be done? NO. More times then not it ends in a bloody fight, and animals suffer for no good reason.

Sometimes we loose sight when dealing with feeders. Bottom line is they are living, breathing creatures that depend on us for their care. Until they are fed off, treat them right. Avoid situations that are known to cause problems for them in there short lives.

you have a good point there mike, and i can tell you know i won't be doing that again for the sake of the animal.
but... on the bright side
They male interacts with the females like he has always been apart of the group. I think i have a couple prego but i cant really tell yet. They seem to be going really good though

IDK the breeder I got mine from just threw any 3 together from differant tubs and I haven't had any issues with fighting. If your going to introduce a new male. Scrub the cage, let the male sit in the old litter then put them in at the same time. Usually for other creatures like my dwarf hamsters rarely are there fights after I do this. Just for fun I put a pinky rat in with my hamsters and they are nursing it:) can't wait until it's older to tell the poor baby it's not a hamster so it'll never have neat cheek storage:)