OK..So What Alternatives Can WE Propose?

I spoke with our Senator today via telephone for about an hour about this proposed legislation. He spent most of this week investigating everything so he had a better idea of what the bill was all about.
Here's the bottom line people. Like it or not, there have been some reptile owners who have done an incredible disservice to all of us for their poor judgement and lack of responsibility regarding the care, or lack thereof of the pets they committed themselves to own. Even today we've had another story relating how an owner abandoned several reptiles in their home as if they didn't even exist. When this happens we play right into the politicians' hands that want these pets banned.
So, while my senator agrees the law seems a bit "extreme", he posed a VERY valid question that will undoubtedly be asked when this bill is challenged next week. What do we, as current reptile owners, propose to Congress to curb the continued abuse and utter blatant neglect and abandonment of these animals? What can we do to promise these politicians that we can help curb the problems that have stemmed from the improper care and behavior of a minority of reptile owners?
It's easy for us to sit here and write e-mails, send form letters and make post after post about this bill. But what we REALLY need to do is come up with alternatives to the problems we are seeing in our hobby. It's not enough to just sit here and forward form letters and so forth without coming up with legitimate options to put an end to the problems we see on a daily basis. While it is true there is a misguided perception that our pets are dangerous and potentially lethal, it still doesn't help to continually have stories such as the one currently on MSNBC exposing the people who neglect these animals.
So, when asked by my senator what I proposed to help eliminate this problem, I brought up the possibility of applying for a permit to keep these animals. By doing so, people might think twice before making a spur-of-the-moment purchase of a snake, bearded dragon, or whatever. Yes, we would have to pay a fee, however it would be a one-time fee and we would be recorded in a database so if anything did happen and a registered owner neglected his reptile or released it illegally, it would be possible for that person to be held accountable for his irresponsibility. I also suggested "tagging" the animals so if they did show up in the wild they could be traced to their owner and they would have to answer for their actions that way.
The bottom line is, we not only need to continue to bombard our representatives to fight this proposed legislation, we need to come up with viable options so we have answers for the renegades who want to ban our pets entirely.
Just some extra food for thought people. Let's hear your ideas!!!

I think that they need to consider there are bigger problems with dogs and cats and farm animals that need to be addressed first.

Great question and one I have asked myself and other people I know.

It has always bothered me that giants/venomous are so easy to obtain for anyone. I don't think stores/breeders should sell them to just anyone who happens to have the money and walks in off the street. I think if the stores/breeders would have been more responsible in the past, we wouldn't face quite the issue we have now or need the government to decide to step in.

In fact, I have had this discussion with the owner of the local reptile shop many many times. He still maintains that he won't sell to someone who he doesn't think can care for them but I know he does. So what should we do at this point? Unless we can rewind time and make people be more responsible, I am not sure.

*really people buying should be more responsible but we know how that goes*

I agree with you but as somebody said, there is bigger problems with cats, dogs and other livestocks than just reptiles. I really think we should get some kind of permit to keep those reptiles and filter out some bad owners. It will definitely reduce the abuse and neglect. Just my 2 cents.

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

I think that they need to consider there are bigger problems with dogs and cats and farm animals that need to be addressed first.

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Nobody's going to dispute that, at least not here. BUT, it's not the cats and dogs under attack right now, it's OUR pets. Personally, and nothing against the cat or dog owners, but I couldn't care less right now about them. What I DO care about is our reptilian friends we cherish so much. It's not going to do any good to sit and point fingers at other pet owners trying to deflect blame. We need to come up with answers for OUR problem. Let the cat and dog owners worry about their issues.

Let the state's handle it at their level.

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Originally Posted by AaronP

Let the state's handle it at their level.

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Exactly.

From what I've read, this bill isn't about animal neglect, it's about allowing non-native species being imported, sold, bred and transported in this country. That senator needs to be asking what can be done about abandoning cats and dogs, which are on the approved list. The rules on keeping possible invasive species should be left to individual states to regulate. If the states feel we need permitting, micro-chips, etc. I'm all for it, just don't tell me I can't have a BP because some schmuck let a Burmese go in Florida. I live in AZ and I'm pretty sure no ball python can live here in the wild during our summers and winters. However, I do believe there needs to be better control of sales on larger snakes such as Burmese or Retics.

The fact is, the time has come when it is almost a 100% guarantee that some sort of legislation will be passed affecting our hobby. So it is definitely in our best interests to be the ones that propose well thought out legislation that is based on scientific facts rather than irrational fears, that will hurt our hobby as little as possible.

However, from the sounds of your post, your senator is expecting to hold the reptile industry to a higher standard than dog and cat owners. That is ridiculously unfair, although with the bias against reptiles it may happen. And it also sounds like you may be beginning to cave in to the pressure. Permits for bearded dragons? Tagging every animal? IMHO, that is going too far.

There are also dog and cat owners who have had poor judgement and done such things as letting animals lose into the wild (both intentionally and accidentally), abandoning houses full of pets, neglecting pets, etc. When you look at the nation as a whole, dogs and cats do an incredible amount of damage to wildlife, property, and even humans.

It is important to remember when talking to people that HR 669 is not anti-reptile legislation. Yes, it will hurt our hobby a lot. But it would actually eliminate a much higher percentage of the species of tropical fish commonly kept in aquariums than it would species of reptiles. When I am talking to people about HR 669, I avoid mentioning that I own reptiles. If people ask me why I'm concerned about it, I throw the word "snakes" in a long list of animals that I own, have owned, or would like to own someday that would be all affected.

I think I'm rambling a little and getting off-point. What I would suggest is state or even local legislation that targets specific problem species in the areas where they are a problem. It is just ridiculous to outlaw burmese pythons in Alaska because they are invasive in Florida. To be honest, most of these laws are already in effect. Florida has relatively new laws, and there are laws that I understand to be very strict about importing animals into places such as Hawaii and Guam. It is a waste of the legislature's time and the tax-payer's money to put in place new laws that won't do anything more than the current laws already do. For example, if we make a nationwide law regarding burmese pythons...so what? They are only a problem in south Florida, and the people there that are willing to break the existing Florida laws probably aren't going to be deterred by a Federal law.

Also, in most cases, outright bans would not be necessary. A strictly enforced permit system should be adequate. And permits should not be the type where you just fill out a form, pay your fee, and automatically get one. It should require proof of adequate knowledge and ability to care for the species in question.

I don't think we have a solution to that question yet. However our industry will never find alternative answers to this if we are spending all our time and resources defending its very existence. I think there is a solution out there but I don't think we have been given the chance to find that solution.

Every industry when presented with a problem like the one we face is given the opportunity, time, funding and support of our government to keep the industry alive while seeking a solution. The auto industry causes more harm to environment in one hour than non-native wildlife has caused in 30 years and yet they are given millions in grants to find alternative fuel sources while still operating as normal, Oil tanker spills have cause more devastation to native wildlife on US coast lines that any non-native wildlife and yet they are aloud to still keep business going while trying to develop better and safer methods of transport, The U.S. Government has released dozens of non-native plant and animals species on U.S soil for the purpose of draining the Everglades, or even releasing species of non-native giant rodent with the intent of controlling species another plant species of plant that they also introduce and that continue to cause problems for native flora and fauna. More so than any species the pet industry could ever remotely be attributed to. The mortgage industry is given bailout money to help find a solution to the housing market crash they they helped cause. More people die every year in DUI accidents than any other auto related death and yet the makers of alcoholic beverages aren't held responsible for the actions of those enjoy their products, Why are we? Car makers aren't held responsible or threatened with total lose of industry due to the thousands of auto deaths every year.
I can tell you the actual damage and harm that the non-native wildlife introduce by the same government to native flora and fauna far out weighs the "Threat" of what "might" happen if us exotic keepers are aloud to continue to keep our industry alive.

When is our industry going to be given the same amount of Governmental courtesy as these far more risky industry's? These are the questions law makers need to be presented with.

People abandon and abuse and neglect dogs and cats all the time, and no one is proposeing that we ban dogs and cats. Why are they suggesting banning reptiles? I would have asked that, in order to see WHY people perceive that reptile owners should be punished for the actions of a extreme few.
Anyone with a brain knows that people who own burms are not driving all the way down to the everglades at the tip of florida to release their pet! It's no cooincidance that Miami is the hotbed for importing.. and hurricanes destroyed breeding facilities down in south florida.. and burms are in south florida. That's NOT the fault of PET OWNERS.
Outlawing all pets just because a handful(relatively speaking) have mistreated their pets is not a fair answer. It's the animal rights folks using it as an excuse to outlaw ALL pet ownership.

It's not a case of "giving in" to the pressure. On the contrary, I think we all can honestly admit this bill has ALOT of momentum behind it this year. When asked, we need to have VALID options for a solution and not just take the stance that "they can't do this to us." Like it or not, they CAN do this to us and they WILL unless we can counter with a responsible solution to this problem.
Yes, the economical impact as well as the other impacts a law such as this will have is mind boggling. BUT, how often do our elected politicians THOROUGHLY think through a situation before acting? I can count hundreds of laws that have been passed both on the state and federal levels where the braisn in Washington didn't think through the whole problem and ended up with a bigger mess than they had before.
All I'm doing is getting everyone here to start thinking and preparing for the day we ARE bound by the laws of this country. And don't be surprised if these politicians start looking for valid arguments from our side this coming week. We need to be FULLY prepared and not just stuck on the "they're not taking my pets" mode.

Hi,

Wouldn't abandoning the animals be an offense under the existing animal welfare laws?

Perhaps educating the investigators for the various enforcement agencies about reptile care would be possible through USARK or PIJAC in conjunction with some of the larger breeders and better known reptiule vets?

A distance learning certificate or similar could be created even if a university or something could be persuaded to take part?

I could see a lot of hobbyists and petstore owners as well as professional breeders being intrested in a certification program that has the support of the animal welfare agencies.

While the numbers involved seem almost insignificant compared to the abuse and abandonment levels often quoted for dogs, cats and other mammals there is obviously some reason the exotics are being pushed by those in favour of legislation. Once is an accident or an idiot with a stupid idea - two years running is a sustained and organised campaign.

Perhaps they really do see the exotic pet community as a soft target too fragmented to put up an effective resistance?

That would make us an ideal candidate to test legislation on before going for larger, more publicly supported targets.

There really needs to be some official awareness of the activities of the animal rights groups - I would love to see what other pieces of legislation they are currently working towards. Is that information publically available?

Reacting to it when it lurches mewling into the light of day is one thing - but better to unmask their intentions so that all future attempts are avoided and ignored by legislators as bad for their public image and a vote loser.

In an ideal world anyway. :rolleyes:


dr del

Your thinking is right on Derek. However, one thing to keep in mind is the money backing these animal rights groups and what that means to the elected officials in office. Do you honestly think if the reptile community could afford to sink 10 or 20 million dollars into an organized plitical party that we would be facing the same issues we're facing now? it's amazing how blind politicians can be when the amount of money padding their cellulitis increases.
One way to find out exactly what legislation might be coming down the pike os for us as reptile owners to join these groups covertly and find out firsthand so we can plan ahead and not get caught with our guard down. ;)

So...I was thinking. I know, scary.

I'm a huge gun advocate, and taking gun safety classes is a great way to get educated. What if we had licenses for the larger reptiles, and maybe set up snake educational classes? This way, we're actually putting money IN to the economy, creating more jobs, etc.

I don't know. I support permits. I think they're a great idea, and I would pay X amount of money to be able to protect my snakes. It's important for us to meet them half-way, but not let them walk all over us. Any of us.

As far as the fish, bird, small mammal people? Chips are a great idea for that front, I think. Maybe even go so far as doing a class too. I'm just trying to brainstorm here.

I somewhat agree with some kind of control or permit system being emplaced. If I want to work with hots I need to be trained by someone that is certified in hots. Basically like what florida did with hots. Someone trains me and signs off on my application. Not saying it would be a perfect system but it would atleast provide training that people now not necassarily are getting. It would stop all the young people from walking into their petstores and buying a reticulated python or a crocadile monitor. Todd

i am against permits period.
i would support microchips for large herps i.e. anacondas, burms, retics.
i would also like to see laws enforced.

many many times we see pet stores that do not properly care for their animals and yet law enforcement seems to care and alot of areas there is little to no aspca.

many many times we see herps dumped because in alot of places ppl dont know where to take them or there is no place to take them. heck even animal control does not know what to do with these specialized animals. i would like to see some kind of list system for all local animal control officers to contact ppl that would help care for these animals either temporary or permenantly.

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Dear Committee Member,
I am writing you to express my strong opposition for House Resolution 669,"The Nonnative Wildlife Invasion Prevention Act". As written, this bill as an overbearing and vague attempt to completely ban pet ownership in the United States by using the excuse that thousands of non-native species are a direct threat to our environment, and our safety, with domestic dogs and cats obviously being the exception, for now. The facts show that the reasoning for this proposal in nearly complete fiction, and the proposed solution of a nationwide ban on the importation, breeding, selling and transporting of these thousands of species is an outrageous attack on pet owners, breeders, and pet stores, as well as the hobbies and indeed the livelihood of millions of Americans. The exotic pet trade currently employs millions of Americans, and generates tens of billions of dollars annually. Besides banning the pets and hobbies of millions of Americans, this bill will be yet another huge blow to the economy and the employment level. After knowing the facts, it becomes apparent that any arguments in favor of a bill such as H. R. 669 are not realistic, and that if the environmental concerns are sincere, the USFW and congress should look into imposing restrictions or safeguards on the importation of goods and building materials from foreign countries, as well as implementing safeguards on international watercraft using our waterways.

• While researching the government’s list of invasive species that are causing problems to the native environment at http://www.invasivespeciesinfo.gov
nearly every species on the list was not introduced through the pet trade, but through piggy backing in cargo and in ballast water of ships and barges, while some were brought in for agricultural purposes and got out of hand. The largest problems seem to be insects and fish that came to the U.S. From Asia in ship water and cargo.
• Thousands of non-native pet species have been in the U.S. For decades with very few problems.
• Non-native pet species that have caused problems have nearly all been restricted to small, specific localities, with most species only being able to survive in very specific environmental conditions. Any restrictions on such species should be well researched by independent scientists to determine the possible threat on a case by case basis, and restrictions presented on a very local level, only in areas where there is real potential for each species to thrive.
• Every species of potentially dangerous constrictor has very specific survivable environmental conditions that are limited in this country to the southern tip of Florida. Any restrictions that are reasoned by environmental concerns of competition with native species should be limited to the southern counties of Florida.
• Feral domestic cats in areas across the U.S. Are responsible for more competition with native wild life than any non-native animal introduced through the pet trade.
• Only 15% of the snakes, worldwide are potentially dangerous to humans, with most states already having regulations in place for the ownership of such species.
• Reptiles are only responsible for less than 12 deaths annually. Most are attributed to venomous snakes, and most of those are attributed to native wild life, the Eastern and Western Diamondback rattle snakes, to be specific.
• The national average for snake bites is 4 people in every 100,000, with most being harmless, needing no medical treatment, while the national average for dog bites is 2,000 people in every 100,000, with 1 in 6 requiring emergency medical treatment. Dog attacks are responsible for more than 30 deaths annually. The average for domestic cats is about 900 in 100,000 people, with 80% of cat bites becoming infected and needing treatment.

Sources:
http://www.invasivespecies.gov
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snakebite
http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html

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For starters chain retail stores should not be allowed to sell reptiles and amphibians. period. This is how idiots end up with burmese pythons and alligators. Specialty shops should still be able to, but there needs to be some kind of liscense or permit to sell them in their store out there that is regulated so that the shop itself isn't neglecting the animals.

Reptiles over certain sizes should require a permit to keep, as well as venomous animals. That way, not every joe shmoe will end up owning an alligator, a burmese python, or a nile monitor/iguana they can't control. If people have to pay for a permit to keep an animal, the majority will say "screw it".... if they go through with it, obviously it is something that they really want to do and are much more likely to give proper care to it.

Actual laws need to be in place that make people just as responsible for neglecting/mistreating reptiles as a dog or a cat. The problem is that since a dog makes everyone go awwwwww, the abuser is ten times more likely to be stiffly apprehended for their crime. The same level of care that is exhibited for dogs and cats is not there as far as reptiles are concerned.

Ok see how this sounds.In order to drive you have to take a test and show you can drive resposibly BEFORE you get a license.So BEFORE anyone is allowed to own ANY reptile they should be forced to take a test and pass it 100% BEFORE they are allowed to buy a reptile.Then said reptiles will be microchipped so IF they are released they can be tracked back to the owner.Then the owner will be punished not everyone else ;).So what do you think about this idea :gj:

Permits can be, unfortunatly, prohibitively expensive, especially if it is a per-animal permit as is likely the case.

That would RUIN any breeders of animals that require permits. Could you imagine how much dough it would cost in permits once you hatched out a 20 foot retic's eggs for a single season?

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Originally Posted by joepythons

Ok see how this sounds.In order to drive you have to take a test and show you can drive resposibly BEFORE you get a license.So BEFORE anyone is allowed to own ANY reptile they should be forced to take a test and pass it 100% BEFORE they are allowed to buy a reptile.Then said reptiles will be microchipped so IF they are released they can be tracked back to the owner.Then the owner will be punished not everyone else ;).So what do you think about this idea :gj:

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

Permits can be, unfortunatly, prohibitively expensive, especially if it is a per-animal permit as is likely the case.

That would RUIN any breeders of animals that require permits. Could you imagine how much dough it would cost in permits once you hatched out a 20 foot retic's eggs for a single season?

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See above idea.

[QUOTE=Anyone with a brain knows that people who own burms are not driving all the way down to the everglades at the tip of florida to release their pet! It's no cooincidance that Miami is the hotbed for importing.. and hurricanes destroyed breeding facilities down in south florida.. and burms are in south florida. That's NOT the fault of PET OWNERS.
Outlawing all pets just because a handful(relatively speaking) have mistreated their pets is not a fair answer. It's the animal rights folks using it as an excuse to outlaw ALL pet ownership.[/QUOTE]


6 breeding facilities were destroyed by hurricane Andrew in 1992, which is what has caused the problem down there.

Yes, thus the mention of breeding facilities.

A permit for the large boids, large monitors, and venomous is not a bad idea. It's already implemented in florida. I think that a short questionaire to be sure the person understands the requirements wouldn't be a bad idea either.
A seperate permit for BREEDERS would also have a test about requirements, but would have one fee for xx number of animals. Perhaps a larger fee for a larger number, so that small hobby breeders are not paying the same as a larger commercial breeder.
I seriously think that any import laws should be kept seperate from laws about captive keeping and breeding. That would simplify it, as we can draft two bills, and know what is in each.
The hobby needs to stand up and address the issues, and help solve it, so that no one else tries to with disasterious consequances, like the currant bills.

the only way i would ever support any permit would be in the money went to land purchases for wildlife refuges in your own state.

oh yes ans this is the reason why i dont support a permit http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...20#post1034420

I don't think there should be a permit for each and every individual animal you keep. I think someone should have to submit an application to keep a specific kind of animal. For example a person wanting to keep a ball python would submit an application to keep ball pythons, answering several questions about enclosure requirements, heating, ect. Once approved you pay a one time fee. Lets say this same person wants five ball pythons to start. They go out and get their ball pythons, showing their permit before purchase, and then each ball python is required to be chipped at a small fee. If you are paying $300 for a snake, a $50 chipping fee isn't going to be too bad.

Now I don't think native species should have to be chipped. If a native species gets loose in its own native habitat, its not going to do much to the local population. You are just out of an animal. I say the permits and chips should be focused on non-native species only.

We may not like the idea of paying for permits to keep our reptiles. BUT, the alternatives are far more severe and we stand to lose a whole lot more unless something like this is implemented.
I see that a lot of people have the mentality that it's all or nothing regarding this subject and I sincerely hope that idealogy changes soon. We aren't going to accomplish anything except create a greater divide between those trying to take our pets away and ourselves unless we start to work toward the common good for everyone concerned. While we may not like having to pay for the ability to keep our pets, it makes perfect sense and I honestly believe it would be one of the best ways to keep these politicians at bay. Think about it. We have to have permits to hunt, fish, drive, and do a host of other things in this country and we accept those rules without so much trouble. So, why is it such a bad thing to have to be held accountable in this regard?
We even see it here on this forum. People join here AFTER buying their snake and start asking tons of questions that should have been asked BEFORE they purchased their pet. So many times people put the cart before the horse when it comes to bringing reptiles into their homes as pets. Whether it's impulse buying or whatever, people do it all the time. A mandatory class and permit test with a fee would discourage people from making these rash decisions and in the end, hurting the reptile they tried to raise as a pet. This behavior doesn't just apply to our snakes. It happens with every reptile on the market.
While this proposed bill, in it's current state, is definitely NOT in our best interest, we, as the reptile owner community can actually turn this bill in OUR favor and establish some ground rules for people who want to own these animals for pets. We stand the chance of beating these right wing activists at their own game and we can actually thank them for getting the ball rolling for us. It's up to us to make the most of this opportunity and in the end, we can rub their noses in the fact it was actually THEM who helped us establish a framework for reptile ownership in this country.

Be aware, you can't chip smaller snakes. (or lizards, frogs, etc). Chipping is just not viable in every case.

You know I have not read all this posts in this thread but I honestly have changed my opinion due to a lot of things I have read recently. I place blame on giant keepers for putting us here in the first place. That is how I see it and no one can tell me different. That said we are all in this togeather. Now we could throw the giant keepers to the wolves to save our necks but look there are examples of dangerous dog breeds that should be looked at in the same way giants are, but due to dog popularity they will never be banned in the fashion the reptile industry is looking at. I see this as a discrimination issue. I still think we need some sort of regulation on giants in some form but we should stand togeather and not let us divide each other. we have just as much right as a pitbull owners to keep a big snake. Its sorta funny that democrats are so up on equality and yet the major sponsors of this bill are democrats. Now this is coming from a more than less democrat, so it really pisses me off.

I definantly agree on the idea of permits, although i don't think radio tracking individual animals is necessary. every owner would just need to meet certain qualifications and need to renew it every x years. "injurous" (as defined in the bill) species could have stricter requirements to try and make legislators happy, but this would fall far short of a ban.

i believe the next step after we (hopfully) fight off this bill will be to address the dog and cat problems, perhaps even use the ides we are developing for exotics in regulating the mainstream pets.

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Originally Posted by joepythons

Ok see how this sounds.In order to drive you have to take a test and show you can drive resposibly BEFORE you get a license.So BEFORE anyone is allowed to own ANY reptile they should be forced to take a test and pass it 100% BEFORE they are allowed to buy a reptile.Then said reptiles will be microchipped so IF they are released they can be tracked back to the owner.Then the owner will be punished not everyone else ;).So what do you think about this idea :gj:

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I hate it..... 1, you don't have to pass your driving test 100%, 70% passes you. 2, I have a 200 pound dog. Should i have to get a permit for that as well? Why should reptiles be treated differently than dogs or cats? They (dogs and cats) create AND harm 1,000 times as many people and the environment that reptiles do. While attempting to fight the problems that face us, why should we hide like 2nd class citizens. Why should we be held to standards not seen in other industries. Last I checked, while this country is barely what our forefathers fought and died for, this was still the United States of America and day by day, we are just giving that all away. Our pets, our business, OUR RIGHTS should not be infringed upon any greater than that of others.

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Originally Posted by neilgolli

I hate it..... 1, you don't have to pass your driving test 100%, 70% passes you. 2, I have a 200 pound dog. Should i have to get a permit for that as well? Why should reptiles be treated differently than dogs or cats? They (dogs and cats) create AND harm 1,000 times as many people and the environment that reptiles do. While attempting to fight the problems that face us, why should we hide like 2nd class citizens. Why should we be held to standards not seen in other industries. Last I checked, while this country is barely what our forefathers fought and died for, this was still the United States of America and day by day, we are just giving that all away. Our pets, our business, OUR RIGHTS should not be infringed upon any greater than that of others.

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Well what do you suggest we do then? No matter how hard we fight to keep our rights to own our reptiles some idiot is going to release one to screw us over again :mad:.Last i checked you should have a permit for your dog its called a license and if he gets loose the tags will give your info ;).So the only differance in what i suggested would be you would have to pass said test with a 100% score NOT one point lower.Those of us with the brains and knowlege of reptiles will pass with ease.The idiots who caused this crap will NOT pass ;)

I believe that there should be a system implemented similar to the way one receives a falconry permit. I'll lay it out for you...

Step 1: I take a test about falconry at my state's Fish and Game office. I must get an 80%.

Step 2: I find a sponsor who in a General Falconer. This means he has actively flown birds of pray for three or more years. Sometimes Steps 1 and 2 are reversed, it depends on the state.

Step 3: I get my facilities and equipment inspected and passed. I purchase a hunting license. I send off paperwork verifying I have done such to the the state.

Step 4: The state sends me their part of my falconry license. I then send a copy of this, plus the other paperwork to my federal Fish and Game office.

Step 5: The federal office sends me my license and I'm ready for a bird!!

As you can see, I had to jump through a lot of hoops to become a falconer. This process helps to weed out the lazy and those who just want a BOP to look "cool". Now, I'm not saying that to own a large snake or a hot we have to have this many steps to get a license, but I do think that by needing one, we can weed out the lazy and unworthy. If you truly want to own one of these amazing animals, then it won't kill you to obtain a permit. Perhaps some sort of class, than a test?

These are just suggestions to throw around. I personally think that it wouldn't be a bad idea. I mean, setting up a good burm or escape proof hot enclosure costs a bit, so what's one more step? Especially if the money or taxes for the cost of the permit goes to something educational or to help preserve habitats.

They need to look back and see how 99% of all non native species became wild in the united states. this video will tell you how.

YouTube - Hurricane Andrew 1992

YouTube - Mad as Hell and Not going to Take it Anymore!

guam has a permit system but they dont approve permits!

Once again tho, no one is denying that we are being treated unfairly as exotic pet owners, but I don't think it helps us to dwell on that until we find some viable options for our pets. We can help take care of the overpopulation of dogs and cats later- when we aren't in the middle of fighting for out hobbies vary survival.

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Originally Posted by gmcclurelssu

Once again tho, no one is denying that we are being treated unfairly as exotic pet owners, but I don't think it helps us to dwell on that until we find some viable options for our pets. We can help take care of the overpopulation of dogs and cats later- when we aren't in the middle of fighting for out hobbies vary survival.

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That's my exact point. IF we are to keep our hobby alive, we need to come up with viable solutions to appease the politicians who are so hell-bent on depriving us of our pets.
It does no good for us to sit here and point fingers at dog and cat owners and the gross overpopulation of those pets. We all know how ridiculous the cat and dog population has gotten here, but that doesn't take the spotlight away from our reptiles.
And, it's just like Senator Schumer asked me last week, if we can't come up with viable options for our reptile pets, then the ball will fall into the courts of the politicians and they will dictate what we can and can't do. Personally, I don't want any politician telling me what pet I can and can't keep. We CAN come up with solutions people, we just have to get over the finger pointing and stop trying to cast the spotlight on other pets. This is our battle NOW and as such, we need to address our strategies NOW, not after the politicians have passed the laws and dictated the fate of our pets.