Say the bill is passed...

And im 100% confident it wont, but lets not argue about that... Today I was telling a friend about it and he asked me a good question, what would I do if I could no longer care for my current animals, or if I had to move to a different state? Now that isnt a problem now, but does the bill include no breeding rodents ( I know asfs are on the list?) but what about rats and mice?

What would BHB do with it all of its animals( Just an example, just the big breeder that comes to my mind with alot of animals) their main purpose is to breed and sell so I doubt they could keep their thousands of animals as pets? I know they wouldnt kill or let them go oblisously but they couldn't sell them?

Just wondering- Matt

I think they will give people like them a chance (like a few months or so) to sell them.

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Originally Posted by PythonBreeder

I think they will give people like them a chance (like a few months or so) to sell them.

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to who?

People have been saying to me "well they can't take my animals".

Sure, they can't, but the feed companies will go out of business, and all of their animals will starve to death.

BHB can keep the animals, but can't breed them or sell them. There's not much to do but put them down because they can't get mice and rats anymore.

Good question.

Wondered about this myself.

What are we gonna feed our snakes? F/t rodents that no one's breeding anymore?

Although I highly doubt the bill will be passed, if it will, I'm stacking my freezer with rats.

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Originally Posted by PythonBreeder

I think they will give people like them a chance (like a few months or so) to sell them.

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Yes, but breeders keep breeders going, half+ the sales people make are to people planning on breeding those animals.

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

Good question.

Wondered about this myself.

What are we gonna feed our snakes? F/t rodents that no one's breeding anymore?

Although I highly doubt the bill will be passed, if it will, I'm stacking my freezer with rats.

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Yeah its the breeding of feeder rodents im mainly worried about, and I am in fact stocking up on breeder mice... to not breed?

Would you go out of your way - and consciously break the law - in order to ensure the well being of your animals?

In other words, lets say breeding mice and rats is now illegal. But - you need to feed your snakes. Would you still breed mice an rats despite a written law saying you can't do it?

Quite drastic - but this is all "what if"..

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Originally Posted by Nate

Would you go out of your way - and consciously break the law - in order to ensure the well being of your animals?

In other words, lets say breeding mice and rats is now illegal. But - you need to feed your snakes. Would you still breed mice an rats despite a written law saying you can't do it?

Quite drastic - but this is all "what if"..

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Good question... Ive already illigally bred ASFs which I didnt know where illigal, but I have truly gotten(fed off) out of them.

Would you? I would never let an animal starve in my care.

Wouldn't they have to "grandfather" in the current animals out there? They can't tell you to kill your animals and you obviously couldn't sell them so what would you do?:confused:

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Originally Posted by Jsh

Wouldn't they have to "grandfather" in the current animals out there? They can't tell you to kill your animals and you obviously couldn't sell them so what would you do?:confused:

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Yes, but that would mean you can keep them, not still breed them.

Edit: the feeders that is, im sure you can keep your current animals.

if the law were ever to pass i will continue to breed my mice and rats as their native to this country. ASF i can stop if need be but i wont as many people buy them form me.

This bill will NEVER pass. Reptiles are more popular than dogs and cats. How often you see dog expos the size of reptile expos. The bill was written by Suit wearing Socialist who want to control this world and they cant which kills them.

And to spend the butt load of money to present this bill is a waste considering the unemployment rate in the US. HMM lets kill animals and put MORE people out of jobs. Kinda Redundant but i will continue on with what im doing PERIOD.

The government is so F'ed up that you do more time for selling drugs than you do for murder. The legal system is a joke.

feeders or not what you will see is heat pads, racks, thermostats, vet care will not be avail. and putting your animals to sleep because of this wouldnt be humane. perhaps we should contact the humane society and ask them. or even better yet if they support humane treatment of animals then why would they support this at all.

oh yes and from this point on i will no longer support any company that donates to the hss.

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Originally Posted by flameethrower

if the law were ever to pass i will continue to breed my mice and rats as their native to this country. ASF i can stop if need be but i wont as many people buy them form me.

This bill will NEVER pass. Reptiles are more popular than dogs and cats. How often you see dog expos the size of reptile expos. The bill was written by Suit wearing Socialist who want to control this world and they cant which kills them.

And to spend the butt load of money to present this bill is a waste considering the unemployment rate in the US. HMM lets kill animals and put MORE people out of jobs. Kinda Redundant but i will continue on with what im doing PERIOD.

The government is so F'ed up that you do more time for selling drugs than you do for murder. The legal system is a joke.

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Are you sure about that? Im pretty sure our rats and mice were brought in by ships from the euros.

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Originally Posted by Beardedragon

Are you sure about that? Im pretty sure our rats and mice were brought in by ships from the euros.

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the norway rat and the wood rat are an invasive species.

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Originally Posted by flameethrower

if the law were ever to pass i will continue to breed my mice and rats as their native to this country. ASF i can stop if need be but i wont as many people buy them form me.

This bill will NEVER pass. Reptiles are more popular than dogs and cats. How often you see dog expos the size of reptile expos. The bill was written by Suit wearing Socialist who want to control this world and they cant which kills them.

And to spend the butt load of money to present this bill is a waste considering the unemployment rate in the US. HMM lets kill animals and put MORE people out of jobs. Kinda Redundant but i will continue on with what im doing PERIOD.

The government is so F'ed up that you do more time for selling drugs than you do for murder. The legal system is a joke.

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Most of the mice and rats bred at pet stores and are common as lab rats are non-native. They are not field mice or sewer rats.. even some of those are non-native as well.
They are on the long list too.

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Originally Posted by flameethrower

if the law were ever to pass i will continue to breed my mice and rats as their native to this country. ASF i can stop if need be but i wont as many people buy them form me.

This bill will NEVER pass. Reptiles are more popular than dogs and cats. How often you see dog expos the size of reptile expos. The bill was written by Suit wearing Socialist who want to control this world and they cant which kills them.

And to spend the butt load of money to present this bill is a waste considering the unemployment rate in the US. HMM lets kill animals and put MORE people out of jobs. Kinda Redundant but i will continue on with what im doing PERIOD.

The government is so F'ed up that you do more time for selling drugs than you do for murder. The legal system is a joke.

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At least my country, a Socialist nation, does not have this ridiculous bill.

Rats are non-native.
But otherwise.. if you have your own snake(say you have only one), when something happens to it, you will never get a replacement.
If you have a breeding operation, you are suddenly a owner of XX number of snakes/lizards/amphibians/fish/birds... and no selling, no trading, no transport, no breeding.
You'd almost HAVE to euthanize most of them. Who can afford to keep that many pets, and what would you feed the reptiles when it's illegil to sell rats, and illegil for you to breed your own rats?

Chickens are on the 'still legal list' I believe so if worst comes to worst I'll feed baby chicks just to keep my snake alive.

also they say all non- native animals right??? alot of dogs and cats where also braught here what about them

You know what I find ironic..

Pigs are on the OK-list. Guess what? Hogs out here cause so many environmental problems! It's incredible how ironic this bill is.

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Originally Posted by klonedskillz

also they say all non- native animals right??? alot of dogs and cats where also braught here what about them

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The bill says cats and Dogs are excluded:rolleyes: And we all know how much of a problem stray cats and dogs aren't!

LoL i hear ya, they keep trying to ban my damn dog anyways Pit's that is

well all i am gonna say is i am not gonna listen to this bill even if it is passed!!! I know things will cost a lot more but hey what are they gonna do? Send me to prison for selling a ball python? well there are alot of laws we dont listen to and this is gonna be one of them lets start a "black market"!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Beardedragon

And im 100% confident it wont, but lets not argue about that... what would I do if I could no longer care for my current animals, or if I had to move to a different state?
Just wondering- Matt

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People have been growing medicinal plants illegally for decades, herps would be the same. Underground hobbies never die, and prices would sky rocket as the animals would basically become black market sales.

And of course, you'd be commiting a federal offense, as well. If you have a family to support, would you risk that?

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

If you have a family to support, would you risk that?

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I do, and yes, I would. I've shed blood, lost blood in the name of Freedom. I'll never submit to infringements of our rights, yours or mine. I may not agree with the things you do, but I would sacrifice my life to defend your right to do so!

Remember, United we stand, divided we fall.

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Originally Posted by flameethrower

Reptiles are more popular than dogs and cats. How often you see dog expos the size of reptile expos.

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huh?

I can't see any truth in that. A majority of homes have a cat or dog or both. Can't say the same about reptiles.

And yes - I had an opportunity to clean up the left over goodies at a pet trade show. This pet trade show was easily 4-5 times bigger than the largest reptile trade show I've ever been to (Daytona, that is)

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Originally Posted by jeffh231979

well all i am gonna say is i am not gonna listen to this bill even if it is passed!!! I know things will cost a lot more but hey what are they gonna do? Send me to prison for selling a ball python? well there are alot of laws we dont listen to and this is gonna be one of them lets start a "black market"!!!!!

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May I remind you that we do not allow anyone to promote illegal activity on this forum.

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Originally Posted by Ben Biscy

I do, and yes, I would. I've shed blood, lost blood in the name of Freedom. I'll never submit to infringements of our rights, yours or mine. I may not agree with the things you do, but I would sacrifice my life to defend your right to do so!

Remember, United we stand, divided we fall.

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amen

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Originally Posted by Nate

Would you go out of your way - and consciously break the law - in order to ensure the well being of your animals?

In other words, lets say breeding mice and rats is now illegal. But - you need to feed your snakes. Would you still breed mice an rats despite a written law saying you can't do it?

Quite drastic - but this is all "what if"..

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That's if Im ok with breeding them.. I don't want to breed them though. I don't have the kind of place to have that going.

I if I do, I would. And I would think nothing of it. If I dont feed my animals, that would be cruel for me to keep them to starve them. This bill is immoral.

I was talking today with a friend about this and he told me somenthing:

The president Obama said something about he will not pass any bill or will not do anything that would hurt the economy and even more if it is something that is making money like this industry is.

I don't know if this is true or how exactly was said, just heared about it today.

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Originally Posted by dracovolans

I was talking today with a friend about this and he told me somenthing:

The president Obama said something about he will not pass any bill or will not do anything that would hurt the economy and even more if it is something that is making money like this industry is.

I don't know if this is true or how exactly was said, just heared about it today.

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yes he said that but then again att general holder said obama supports an assault weapon ban which with the list will include alot of weapons not considerered assault weapons, which obama bin laden said he is there to protect our rights. so far just about everything hes claimed to support has been a lie!

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Originally Posted by flameethrower

if the law were ever to pass i will continue to breed my mice and rats as their native to this country. ASF i can stop if need be but i wont as many people buy them form me.

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Rats are 100% not native to the United States. Some species of mice are, but not all.

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Originally Posted by flameethrower

This bill will NEVER pass.

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That's 100% not true. There is very strong support for getting HR 669 passed in Congress. The quote from many left wingers when confronted with the damage that will be done to the pet industry is "The pet industry is collateral damage that we're willing to accept".

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Originally Posted by flameethrower

Reptiles are more popular than dogs and cats. How often you see dog expos the size of reptile expos.

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Not true at all ... as of last year, there were about 2.2 million US households with either a lizard, turtle, or snake ... while about 80.4 million US households owned at least one dog or cat. Dog and Cat expos are HUGE and happen every weekend all over the United States. Some of the biggest Dog/Cat expos make Daytona and Chicago Reptile Expos look like garage sales.

Just trying to make sure that people understand the facts and how dangerous HR 669 really is.

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

That's 100% not true. There is very strong support for getting HR 669 passed in Congress. The quote from many left wingers when confronted with the damage that will be done to the pet industry is "The pet industry is collateral damage that we're willing to accept".


adam

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anyone happen to know who is quoted on saying this?

Somehow I just don't see this bill making it.. Let's not fear this bill. Everything will be ok is my prediction.. :gj:

This came out of nowhere. And easy come easy go.

The bill is BS, that's not news to anyone on the board though. If rats and mice are banned it will probably cost us a ton to boost the British market when we are forced to order frozen from there and have it shipped over in cooled freight. Pretty pathetic the US government is spending money on this bill when selling reptiles is no where as bad as our other pathetic laws that matter such as drug traffic and illegal firearms. I try my best not to break the law. 5-10 mph over on the freeway is about it. If the police just enforced traffic laws they would constantly be tired up, much less control the pet trade. Enforce the laws we have instead of making new ones that don't matter. I'm gonna walk to the police station with an ice cream cone in my back pocket, I'll see you guys when I get bailed out.

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Originally Posted by t-Roy

Somehow I just don't see this bill making it.. Let's not fear this bill. Everything will be ok is my prediction.. :gj:

This came out of nowhere. And easy come easy go.

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this didnt come out of nowhere it came from a non functional FWS that cannot enforce the current laws. based on lies from the USGS which isnt even a scientific document nor is it factual

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Originally Posted by nixer

this didnt come out of nowhere it came from a non functional FWS that cannot enforce the current laws. based on lies from the USGS which isnt even a scientific document nor is it factual

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there you go. Even better!

Mods I am not promoting illegal activity... But I suspect, as another poster here mentioned, that if this bill passes, an underground market for herps and feeders WILL develop...

I mean, for example, there's a law in Massachusetts (possibly everywhere in U.S.? not sure) that you aren't allowed to sell turtles under a certain size. When I worked at Petco a couple years ago, you have no idea how many times people asked me questions about their tiny baby turtles; often the turtles were purchased as gifts :rolleyes:. I've also talked to many people since having that job that own baby turtles. Not sure where the heck they are getting them, but clearly the law isn't working or isn't being enforced...

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Originally Posted by t-Roy

Somehow I just don't see this bill making it.. Let's not fear this bill. Everything will be ok is my prediction.. :gj:

This came out of nowhere. And easy come easy go.

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I have to tell you, until about a week and a half ago, I felt the exact same way. But since then I've gotten involved with the effort against this bill and every day I speak with Washington D.C. lawyers, political lobbyists, and various national pet association board members (for birds, fish, and small mammals) and I am scared. The people that I speak with are scared and they do this for a living. I know it's easy to sit in your home and look at what's going on and think "oh, that will never happen" ... but nothing can be further from the truth. It can and will unless we do something about it.

-adam

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Originally Posted by icygirl

Mods I am not promoting illegal activity... But I suspect, as another poster here mentioned, that if this bill passes, an underground market for herps and feeders WILL develop...

I mean, for example, there's a law in Massachusetts (possibly everywhere in U.S.? not sure) that you aren't allowed to sell turtles under a certain size. When I worked at Petco a couple years ago, you have no idea how many times people asked me questions about their tiny baby turtles; often the turtles were purchased as gifts :rolleyes:. I've also talked to many people since having that job that own baby turtles. Not sure where the heck they are getting them, but clearly the law isn't working or isn't being enforced...

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Yes its in every state because parents would buy their kids these putting them in small accessible tanks and little kids would play with them and a lot of them would stick them in their mouths leading to salmonella. Im not sure how so many were in Massachusetts but if you go to Florida you can find them all over the place.

I actually saved a quarter sized turtle from three kids who were trying to kill it... im trying to adopt it out ( I say adopt because if you cant afford $20 you cant afford the $100's it cost to raise it) and ive already been reported to the Ga DNR for trying to find it a home. What can I do, give it away? Thats still illegal.

Which brings me to a great point, im in the same ordeal as I would be if I wanted to rid of my snakes if the bill passed. Now, all you have to say to buy a little turtle legaly is that you want it for a school project and that would be a legal reason to sell it, but it wont be the case with the snakes.

Im stuck with this turtle that I cannot afford until hes either four inches big or I find someone who can take on the care a turtle needs. :weirdface

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Originally Posted by dracovolans

I was talking today with a friend about this and he told me somenthing:

The president Obama said something about he will not pass any bill or will not do anything that would hurt the economy and even more if it is something that is making money like this industry is.

I don't know if this is true or how exactly was said, just heared about it today.

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You mean a politician said something and then went back on it? NO WAY!!! :O :ohmygod: (I'm so not going to comment further on this particular point as it would be better suited to the QT)

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Originally Posted by t-Roy

Somehow I just don't see this bill making it.. Let's not fear this bill. Everything will be ok is my prediction.. :gj:

This came out of nowhere. And easy come easy go.

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Not asking you to fear this, but you SHOULD take it very serious. Just hoping for the best, is how this stuff gets passed. At the very least go and send a email to your state representative. Doing nothing is the same as supporting the bill.

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Originally Posted by icygirl

Mods I am not promoting illegal activity... But I suspect, as another poster here mentioned, that if this bill passes, an underground market for herps and feeders WILL develop...

I mean, for example, there's a law in Massachusetts (possibly everywhere in U.S.? not sure) that you aren't allowed to sell turtles under a certain size. When I worked at Petco a couple years ago, you have no idea how many times people asked me questions about their tiny baby turtles; often the turtles were purchased as gifts :rolleyes:. I've also talked to many people since having that job that own baby turtles. Not sure where the heck they are getting them, but clearly the law isn't working or isn't being enforced...

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While it's true that is a very real possibilty, the promoting and discussing of illegal activities is against the rules of this site. The warning is given to warn that further discussion of a 'black market' would likely result in infractions being handed out.

Maybe this should be moved to the QT room? I mean, what do you do if you have a $4000 dollar snake and in a year your out of food to feed it ( saying you cant get any mice legally or illegally and thats all it eats)... you don't want to loose the money but you don't want it to die. What can/do you do?

EDIT: Im not trying to premote anything illegal, if this is passed this will be a problem and really almost the whole forum will have to shut down because there wont be any breeding threads feeder threads or anything other than just keeping them. And with no new members asking questions about their new snakes... what will happen to the forum?

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Originally Posted by t-Roy

Somehow I just don't see this bill making it.. Let's not fear this bill. Everything will be ok is my prediction.. :gj:

This came out of nowhere. And easy come easy go.

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Originally Posted by t-Roy

there you go. Even better!

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It absolutely stuns me that someone on a forum that is targeted at reptile keepers would so casually dismiss this bill as nothing to fear.

I'll tell you the same thing I tell people who choose not to vote. You have NO right to complain when your rights are taken away from you if this bill passes, if you've chosen not to take any action, or tell others not to worry about this bill.

Ive sent my letters and I email everyday and call everyday. Ive put posts on myspace and doen everything I could think of. All I know is no matter what happens my animals will always be with me and always be taken care of no matter what I have to do in the process!

SAY NO TO HR669

By not letting us feed our pets the rats they need to survive, they are, in effect, euthanizing these pets, just while they are in our care. it's a slow, INHUMANE way of killing these pets and that, in and of itself, goes against everything this stupid bill is trying to enforce. Now, where are the animal rights activists when it comes to this issue? Starving animals or prosecuting those who are trying to care for their pets is illegal, no matter how you slice it. I will NOT neglect my animals because of this law, IF it is even passed. They can throw me in prison and toss away the key because that's what it will take to keep me from caring for my pets.

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Originally Posted by Nate

Would you go out of your way - and consciously break the law - in order to ensure the well being of your animals?

In other words, lets say breeding mice and rats is now illegal. But - you need to feed your snakes. Would you still breed mice an rats despite a written law saying you can't do it?

Quite drastic - but this is all "what if"..

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Yes.

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Originally Posted by Beardedragon

And im 100% confident it wont, but lets not argue about that... Today I was telling a friend about it and he asked me a good question, what would I do if I could no longer care for my current animals, or if I had to move to a different state? Now that isnt a problem now, but does the bill include no breeding rodents ( I know asfs are on the list?) but what about rats and mice?

What would BHB do with it all of its animals( Just an example, just the big breeder that comes to my mind with alot of animals) their main purpose is to breed and sell so I doubt they could keep their thousands of animals as pets? I know they wouldnt kill or let them go oblisously but they couldn't sell them?

Just wondering- Matt

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This should answer all your questions hope it Help.....

YouTube - Pets in Peril (politicians gone wild) HR669

IF this bill passes im going on strike and create a big uproar in my city!