Maintaining temp/hum. with starter kit..??!

Hi all! Sorry that my first post here is such a newbie question. I've read a lot about ball pythons lately, and having just moved into a new apartment with my fiancee, was overcome with excitement and committed a cardinal sin! I BOUGHT THE SNAKE on a spur of the moment type whim. I also bought the "Zilla" snake starter kit which comes with 2 heat lamps (1 black bulb, 1 regular/white bulb), a hide, a water dish, and I bought aspen bedding...

Well, I have the poor thing in the enclosure, but am not sure if I should do something else with her... I can't seem to bring the humidity up in there.. It's sitting at 30% according to the hygrometer/thermometer that came with the kit. The ambient temperature is just now around 90F...

I have the water dish full of water of course, and both heat lamps on (Had to leave them on overnight, and crank the heat in the apartment to get the temp over 75)

I feel really bad that the poor thing is paying for my ignorance, but the people at the store I bought from said that the snake is very resilient and wouldn't mind the transition period too much.

Any tips are WELCOME!!! Don't hesitate to yell/flame/tell me I'm doing it wrong, I'd much rather know that way than not at all!

Thanks in advance!
~David

Oh, also! I have a warm mist humidifier near the enclosure, hoping to ramp up humidity, and I've been misting the substrate under the heat lamp with the mist that came in the starter kit, that it recommended you use on the reptile/bedding.. Is there anything else I need to be doing? I know 30% is WAY too low! :(


*worried new parent*

Update:

I put a larger dish of water in the enclosure as well, the humidity has come up to 45% or so since I did so, it appears to be rising slowly.. But the temperature is still fluctuating between 84F - 90F ... Is this normal..? O.o

It is really best not to use a light as a heat source. You can buy an under the tank (UTH) heater of some type. Your pet store should sell them. You will also need a thermostat to regulate the UTH. This starter kit that you bought is for general reptile use and is not specifically designed for snakes. It is hard to regulate humidity in a glass tank although you can do so by covering the top of the tank with aluminum foil or something if if has a screen top. You would have done better in my opinion to have bought a Sterelite plastic tub at Target instead of the glass tank. My first reptile was a leopard gecko and the pet store where I bought her sold me an expensive inappropriate set up t go with it.There are caresheets on this site to help you and people will be glad to answer any questions that you may have. You will have to no doubt fiddle with your enclosure until you get it right. Keep posting as you go.

Hmm... So basically I have entirely the wrong setup? I read a lot of things saying not to use UTH to regulate temperature, since it has the potential to burn the snake.. And at $60/pad they're a bit daunting a prospect, especially if they may be harmful.. :( I guess I'll shop around on eBay.. It needs to have a thermostat, is that it?

The humidity has come up a bit.. I'm working to get it to 60% with an ambient temp of at least 85F.. Is it ok for him/her (I don't know yet! :-O) to be in there while I'm doing all of this? S/he's been pretty stationary, and at first would tend to stay under the heat lamp.. I had the lamp over the water dish, and the night-lamp over the hide.. But I changed this, and s/he went into the hide and curled up.. I picked it up to check on her this morning, making sure the night went ok, and she seems bright eyed and bushy tailed.. But if I should have her in an alternate enclosure.. Or soaking, to compensate for low humid. or something? Yeah..

Thanks so much for the response on the weekend!! :)

I have found that keeping approximately half of the screen top covered in a double layer of aluminum foil and then placing a saturated hand towel in the middle of the top helps ALOT in maintaining humidity in your tank. I have had great success with this method so far and my humidity stays steady at 55-65%. I simply saturate the towel once in the morning and once at night when I turn their night lights on and all is good. Of course you will still need the bowl of water in the aquarium as well.
I will be upgrading in the next couple of weeks to fully enclosed habitats to further help in the minute controls of temps and humidity in my tanks.

When covering the top with foil, I assume you only have room for one light.. So which side should the light go on? hide or bowl? And you just switch to the black light at night? Do you also use a UTH? I was afraid to turn the day-light off last night, for fear of the temp getting too low.

Thanks for your help!!!! :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by obsidiantalon

When covering the top with foil, I assume you only have room for one light.. So which side should the light go on? hide or bowl? And you just switch to the black light at night? Do you also use a UTH? I was afraid to turn the day-light off last night, for fear of the temp getting too low.

Thanks for your help!!!! :)

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Welcome to bp.net!!

ideally, you should have an two identical hides, snug and tight fitting for your snake. one on the warm side and one on the cool side. they should be identical so that your snake does not have to choose between feeling secure and thermoregulating. if you are using a uth, you shouldn't (depending on the temps in your home) need a light for heat. the lights and the screen top of the cage are what's killing your humidity. also, i'd be willing to bet that the hygrometer that came with the starter kit is of the crappy, stick on, analog variety. these are inaccurate and useless. walmart sells a nice thermometer/hygrometer combo for like 20 bucks. you'd also really be doing yourself a favor to CAREFULLY read the ball python care sheet found on this forum. the folks here also are an invaluable source of information on care and keeping. keep your head up, and keep working at it and you'll nail it soon! keep us posted.

I keep my water bowl more in the middle of the tank. Simba loves his cocnut huts for hides, but believe it or not, Sheba loves wrapping herself in the fake vegetation she has in her viv. She absolutely loves hanging from the plastic vines we put in there for her. Go figure....
I also have UTH's for both tanks with thermostats and supplement with LOW HEAT bulbs to assist in maintaining temps and humidity. Again, make sure you have a "hot" side and a "cool" side for your pet. This is the only way they can thermoregulate their bodyheat.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by obsidiantalon

Hmm... So basically I have entirely the wrong setup? I read a lot of things saying not to use UTH to regulate temperature, since it has the potential to burn the snake.. And at $60/pad they're a bit daunting a prospect, especially if they may be harmful.. :( I guess I'll shop around on eBay.. It needs to have a thermostat, is that it?

The humidity has come up a bit.. I'm working to get it to 60% with an ambient temp of at least 85F.. Is it ok for him/her (I don't know yet! :-O) to be in there while I'm doing all of this? S/he's been pretty stationary, and at first would tend to stay under the heat lamp.. I had the lamp over the water dish, and the night-lamp over the hide.. But I changed this, and s/he went into the hide and curled up.. I picked it up to check on her this morning, making sure the night went ok, and she seems bright eyed and bushy tailed.. But if I should have her in an alternate enclosure.. Or soaking, to compensate for low humid. or something? Yeah..

Thanks so much for the response on the weekend!! :)

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I have never seen advice not to buy a UTH. You may be thinking about hotrocks. A UTH should only cost between $15-$20, however many find the cost of a good thermostat to be daunting. Look for used Ranco 111-000 thermostats on ebay.Do a seqrch for "temperature controls"' Nobody likes to hear this but the petshops make more money on the habitat than the snake and profit is their motive.They typically sell you the wrong setup. Most petshops sell imported or captive hatched snakes and there are often feeding problems. Hopefully your snake will eat for you. I don't want to discourage you, I am just trying to make you aware of common pitfalls that people run in to.

I'm aware, thank you! I /was/ at least smart enough to ask about a feeding schedule... They said this one has been fed/eaten every Tuesday.. So I'm gonna go back to the same shop and get a feeder mouse on Tuesday... Coiled around itself, the snake fits in the palm of my hand.. Very small still, should we be shooting for a "hopper" or a "pinky" or what, the first time around?

Thanks again, everyone, for all the advice! I'll try the foil on the cage for humidity.. I'm gonna make the side that has the hide on it now the hot side, she seems to enjoy it that way.. I'll look into getting her (Yeah, like I said.. Dono sex yet, but my gut says she's a she, so for all intents and purposes.. :D) another one when I get her first meal.. As well as a UTH if I can't get the heat up there.

I read some posts saying not to handle her in the first day, but we played with her a bit while setting up her enclosure and she didn't seem to mind it. She only did that cute little "Ball" thing they do while actually IN the pet shop. And my family stopped in for the first time to see our apartment. They are all animal people as well, so most of them either held or touched her, and again.. She didn't seem to mind. She stayed loosely coiled in my hands, and even began to explore a bit while they were petting her.

So, to summarize... I need to: Cover one side of the lid, invest in a UTH+thermostat, invest in a better quality digital hygrometer/thermometer.. Anything else?

And once more.. thank you all so much, I didn't expect such kind replies since I'm attacking this as such a newbie! :)

Ok, I've covered half of the cage with aluminum foil and the humidity is starting to rise just above 50% now. Ambient temp is sitting steady at 85F and she's still in the hide. Is there any way to know if she's sleeping, or just chilling out in there? And should I avoid moving the hide to check on her?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by obsidiantalon

Ok, I've covered half of the cage with aluminum foil and the humidity is starting to rise just above 50% now. Ambient temp is sitting steady at 85F and she's still in the hide. Is there any way to know if she's sleeping, or just chilling out in there? And should I avoid moving the hide to check on her?

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There isnt really a way to tell if they're sleeping or just chilling since they have to sleep with their eyes open (no eyelids). A hiding ball python is a happy ball python.

The UTH has to be regulated by a thermostat or a rheostat. Thermostat being the better more accurate choice of the two. The UTH does have the potential to reach dangerously high heats which if unregulated can burn your snake.
As far as the humidity goes, the best way around that is a cheap sterilite tub 15qt with air holes drilled through the plastic. It holds humidity better tahn a wire top tank. I have found that a wet hand towel laid on 1/2-3/4 of the mesh top can help maintain the 50-60% moisture you need. Just make sure the entire top is NOT covered, you need to have adequate air flow. Just rewet it everymorning....easier than constantly misting!
Good luck!

I got a relitively inexpensive thermostat online at "big apple pets" I've had it for two years and it works great! (They're sometimes hard to find if the pet shop is not specialized) You connect a probe to the glass on top of the UTH...under their "warm" hide, right next to the probe from your thermometer/ hydrometer(you can find cheap one's at target) and just adjust the thermostat according to the temp...Once it's set it will keep the temp stabile by automatically turning on and off your UTH as needed! Pretty awesome!

I guarantee you if you are measuring temps and humidity with those crappy stick on dials that all of your temps and humidity are around 10* or % off.

Since it looks like you will be purchasing things online for the most part I will give your a brief quick fix to make the tank a little more comfortable for your new scaley friend.

For right now I would just keep one light. Is it a black light or a blue night time light? If it is the later, just keep that one on 24/7 so you can still maintain temps at night without bothering your snake with a huge bright light above him.

Now here is the fun shopping part. Go to the HOME DEPOT or LOWES. Get a piggy back lamp dimmer for the lamp. They look like this: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31WPQ76JOlL.jpg You might have to ask a lot of people where to find this. One person might tell you they don't have it but trust me they have it. Now you must search for the ever eluding accurite digital thermometer hygrometer combo. You should be able to find this is the gardening or seasonal department with the other themometers and such. This particular one looks like so: http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/partshelf/ps-00891.jpg See how this one has that little black probe thing? That is super important. It is supposed to measure the "outside" temp but in this case we are going to use it to measure your hot side temps.

Alright now we are done with our shopping trip! time to set everything up.

First step is to figure out how to use your light dimmer. Here is a thread that discusses how to set it up: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=73275 . Plug this into the wall and then plug the lamp into the dimmer. This dimmer will be your temporary rheostat and will allow you to control the temperature a bit more.

Second step is to set up the accurite. Since you are using lamp heat, you should put the probe on top of the substrate. For now you can just let it sit there, do not fasten it to anything. Put the ENTIRE accurite unit in the cage on the cool side (not under the light). This will measure your cool side temps an humidity.

Hope this helps!

Alright! Sorry for the delay between updates, but here's where I'm at now!

I've got 3/4 of the screen-top covered with a wet dish towel. I bought an Accu-rite thermometer/hygrometer and the temperature is pretty regular now..

My only concern is that the temp. drops at night, pretty sharply if I turn off the heat lamp.. But if I don't, I'm worried it will mess up her photocycle.. =/

Guess I really just need to invest in some under tank heat. Anyone have a recommendation that won't further break my bank account? (As I said, my fiancee and I are still moving into our first apartment.. :)

Thanks again for all the help everyone!

ZooMed makes several different sizes of UTH's, with the most expensive around $45.00 @ PetSmart or Petco. I have two, one for each side of the tank, and they work great with the thermostat controls. I have an Accu-Rite measuring the "hot" side and the Humidity, as well as the ambient temp. I have another digital probe measuring the "cold" side. Identical hides on both sides. My snake seems very happy. She spends a lot of time in both hides, and can be "caught" in the middle of the night hanging out on a large branch I have accross the top of her tank.