Ribbon snake?

Hi! I'm thinking about adopting a ribbon snake off my local craigslist and was wondering if anyone knew anything about them.
I have already emailed the current owner with my questions but I have some concerns, that someone trying to 'sell' the snake may not address honestly. And some I plain forgot to ask.

From my own research ribbon snakes are essentially gartersnakes...
1)Do they emitt a foul smell when picked up? The gartersnakes I caught around here as a child were never very pleasant to handle. :(
2)Can this defense mechanism be 'trained' out with patient handling?
3)Can I feed him mice? I breed them so they're handy.. I'm willing to by goldfish for this snake but an occasional mouse so I don't have to go to petco every week. I travel by bus, go every 2 weeks or so for crickets.
4)Max and min tank size for one of these?
5)Is it really a ribbon snake? Hard to say since it's craigslist I know. :oops:
6)???Any other info will be appreciated.

Thank you!!!! :bow:

This is the add:
XXXXXXXXXXX
Interesting, fish eating snake would like new home (Comes with EVERYTHING you will ever need)

Slitherin is a 2 yr old Ribbon Snake who needs a new home. He's an interesting little guy who likes to climb and will make you laugh with his "fishing tactics" on feeding days. He especially likes to climb up in his vines and hang over his water dish before slamming his face in the water with his mouth open to catch his favorite meal (goldfish). He also eats nightcrawlers. He's super easy to care for, doesn't bite and comes with his tank, locking lid, heat pad, multiple carpets (so one is always clean), multiple hiding huts, fake vines and XL water dish. Just add a few goldfish once a week and he's good to go. $50 and the promise of a good home.

http://images.craigslist.org/3m93p93...f01aa71c5b.jpg

XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

note: picture is probably not of the actual snake since I found this exact!, exact pic in an article while researching the species... hence the question, is it actually a ribbon snake?

If I get the snake I will probably do away with the repti-carpet.. nothing against it I just use aspen for all my current snakes so it would be convenient. But otherwise this sounds like a good deal to me. Am I wrong?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by truthsdeceit

Hi! I'm thinking about adopting a ribbon snake off my local craigslist and was wondering if anyone knew anything about them.
I have already emailed the current owner with my questions but I have some concerns, that someone trying to 'sell' the snake may not address honestly. And some I plain forgot to ask.

From my own research ribbon snakes are essentially gartersnakes...
1)Do they emitt a foul smell when picked up? The gartersnakes I caught around here as a child were never very pleasant to handle. :(
2)Can this defense mechanism be 'trained' out with patient handling?
3)Can I feed him mice? I breed them so they're handy.. I'm willing to by goldfish for this snake but an occasional mouse so I don't have to go to petco every week. I travel by bus, go every 2 weeks or so for crickets.
4)Max and min tank size for one of these?
5)Is it really a ribbon snake? Hard to say since it's craigslist I know. :oops:
6)???Any other info will be appreciated.

Thank you!!!! :bow:

This is the add:
XXXXXXXXXXX
Interesting, fish eating snake would like new home (Comes with EVERYTHING you will ever need)

Slitherin is a 2 yr old Ribbon Snake who needs a new home. He's an interesting little guy who likes to climb and will make you laugh with his "fishing tactics" on feeding days. He especially likes to climb up in his vines and hang over his water dish before slamming his face in the water with his mouth open to catch his favorite meal (goldfish). He also eats nightcrawlers. He's super easy to care for, doesn't bite and comes with his tank, locking lid, heat pad, multiple carpets (so one is always clean), multiple hiding huts, fake vines and XL water dish. Just add a few goldfish once a week and he's good to go. $50 and the promise of a good home.

http://images.craigslist.org/3m93p93...f01aa71c5b.jpg

XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

note: picture is probably not of the actual snake since I found this exact!, exact pic in an article while researching the species... hence the question, is it actually a ribbon snake?

If I get the snake I will probably do away with the repti-carpet.. nothing against it I just use aspen for all my current snakes so it would be convenient. But otherwise this sounds like a good deal to me. Am I wrong?

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Looks like an Eastern Ribbon Snake.

As to your questions:

(1) Depends on the individual snake - they are more flightly and jumpy than garters (as a rule).

(2) You can get them acclimated to handling.

(3) You can feed them pinky mice. Or better yet, buy whole silversides from a tropical fish store (they sell them frozen in bags).

Do not feed them goldfish or any other fish high in thiaminase. Long term feeding of fish high in thiaminase to thamnophis has been linked to neurological issues. Goldfish tend to be also rife with parasites and are regularly treating prophylactically for bacterial infections with water-bourne medications.

Earthworms make a nice occasional snack. The staple should be whole silversides and pinkies.

A 10 gallon tank or equivalent would be the minimum enclosure size for this snake. 40 gallon would be the max. They are active animals so the bigger the better.

I use slate in my thamnophis enclosures. It's cheap, easy to clean and looks nice. I also provide a water dish large enough for them to curl up in.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

Looks like an Eastern Ribbon Snake.

As to your questions:

(1) Depends on the individual snake - they are more flightly and jumpy than garters (as a rule).

(2) You can get them acclimated to handling.

(3) You can feed them pinky mice. Or better yet, buy whole silversides from a tropical fish store (they sell them frozen in bags).

Do not feed them goldfish or any other fish high in thiaminase. Long term feeding of fish high in thiaminase to thamnophis has been linked to neurological issues. Goldfish tend to be also rife with parasites and are regularly treating prophylactically for bacterial infections with water-bourne medications.

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Thank you for the reply. I did some of my own research and had read about how bad goldfish can be.

If I'm buying frozen feeder fish is there anything special I should know about thawing? I would assume since it's fish I don't need to warm them only thoroughly thaw.

Any feelings about guppies? They seem to be the prefered 'live' feeder fish on the sites I visited.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by truthsdeceit

Thank you for the reply. I did some of my own research and had read about how bad goldfish can be.

If I'm buying frozen feeder fish is there anything special I should know about thawing? I would assume since it's fish I don't need to warm them only thoroughly thaw.

Any feelings about guppies? They seem to be the prefered 'live' feeder fish on the sites I visited.

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I'm wary of live feeder fish bought from pet stores - they are crowded together and kept in fairly unclean conditions (as a rule). If you were raising your own guppies, that might be okay - although I have heard conflicting information. On one hand, guppies are often recommended as safe feeder fishes because of their presumed to be low thiaminase content. Some people claim that guppies contain thiaminase producing bacteria, however I have never read any scientific study confirming this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

I'm wary of live feeder fish bought from pet stores - they are crowded together and kept in fairly unclean conditions (as a rule). If you were raising your own guppies, that might be okay - although I have heard conflicting information. On one hand, guppies are often recommended as safe feeder fishes because of their presumed to be low thiaminase content. Some people claim that guppies contain thiaminase producing bacteria, however I have never read any scientific study confirming this.

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The sites I read on were under informed and mostly seemed worried about the fact that goldfish are a hardy (ish) fish that can take a 'beating' and can be kept in those unclean conditions you mentioned. Guppies on the other hand are considered more delicate and so they must be better kept to be kept alive. Conclusion: Goldfish are more likely to be sick and dirty... and also carry thiaminase. So guppies would be better.

I'm more than likely to buy live feeder fish so I'm trying to sound out what would be best of the choices presented. The above conclusion is what I turned up. I still need to sound out my local pet stores. I'm making a trip tomorrow and will be inquiring as to what they carry feeder fish wise.

Just in case. Any info on thawing frozen fish? Was my assumption right about not needing to warm only thaw?

Just FYI. At this point this is all academic since I have not heard form the craigslist poster in some time. They may have sold the ribbon snake already and decided it was a waste of time to email me back and say it was gone. :(

However, if that's the case I may be bringing home a local garter species in a few weeks and can still use this info.

(I live in Puget Sound in Washington, if that makes a diffence to the type of garter I'll end up with. Maybe I'll get a Puget Blue! :rolleyes:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by truthsdeceit

The sites I read on were under informed and mostly seemed worried about the fact that goldfish are a hardy (ish) fish that can take a 'beating' and can be kept in those unclean conditions you mentioned. Guppies on the other hand are considered more delicate and so they must be better kept to be kept alive. Conclusion: Goldfish are more likely to be sick and dirty... and also carry thiaminase. So guppies would be better.

I'm more than likely to buy live feeder fish so I'm trying to sound out what would be best of the choices presented. The above conclusion is what I turned up. I still need to sound out my local pet stores. I'm making a trip tomorrow and will be inquiring as to what they carry feeder fish wise.

Just in case. Any info on thawing frozen fish? Was my assumption right about not needing to warm only thaw?

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The silversides would only need to be thawed out to room temperature.

Next time you go to the local pet store, take a look at how they keep their fish. Odds are that all feeders are kept the same way. Feeder fish tend to be kept in bad conditions whether they are goldfish or guppies.

Again, the verdict is still out on guppies and thiaminase.

Whatever snake you get, wouldn't it be more convenient to not have to go out every week for live food?

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

Whatever snake you get, wouldn't it be more convenient to not have to go out every week for live food?

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Well at this point I'm going out for crickets for my G. Rosea anyway. I am not willing to breed crickets, I could breed roaches but with only one T it's not really saving money, plus my boyfriend is against roaches and more T's (he hates the one I have :( ). If I make the trip anyway for 50cents worth of crickets, a few fish would make it see more worth while.

Don't worry though, I will put the snake first. Lots of research before I get one and if the feeders look 'off' I won't buy them.... Just a thought what's to guarantee that the frozen fish are any healthier than live ones? A frozen mouse can be raise in bad conditions just like a live one, thats why I breed my own. Though I suppose a fish is more likely to be 'fished' right out of the sea. :P And are a thiaminase free fish so they're one up already.

Hi there, being an expert in thamnophis husbandry, I must add this, do not feed silversides, a.k.a. smelt, to your snake. Sadly, silversides are also high in thiaminase and are not any better to use than goldfish. I was using these myself until I looked them up and almost had a heart attack. Rosy red minnows and Catfish, as well. Guppies and platies are safe if you need to use live fishes, but cuts of trout with a calcium supplement work WONDERFULLY. If you buy guppies, make SURE they are guppies, not all stores know the difference between these and rosy reds. You can also use salmon or tilapia strips. (as a side note, these may be saltwater fish but saltwater fish DO NOT contain salt in them like so many seem to think they do) I like to use trout as my first choice, because the snakes seem to prefer that the most. You should also check out the recipe for complete homemade garter snake diet that I will be posting in a few minutes. It involved the use of raw fish, gelatin, and vitamins/calcium. You can also switch the snake over to rodents using scenting. A ribbon snake makes a great pet, just know that they are rather flighty, and do NOT take well to being handled for the most part. They are more of a "look at" snake. But they are indeed, fun to watch! A female can easily reach 4 feet in length and gives birth to a HUGE clutch of offspring.

You can TRY nightcrawlers on your ribbon, not all ribbons will take them. I do have one ribbon who loves to eat worms though. Tadpoles, salamanders and frogs are all relished food items of any thamnophis. If you ever have a problem feeder, any amphibian is an instant cure for that. Freeze any amphibian prey before you feed it to your snake to reduce the risk of parasites by a considerable amount.

if you have any additional questions regarding garter and ribbon snake husbandry, I am an open book and more than willing to help.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aSnakeLovinBabe

Hi there, being an expert in thamnophis husbandry, I must add this, do not feed silversides, a.k.a. smelt, to your snake. Sadly, silversides are also high in thiaminase and are not any better to use than goldfish. I was using these myself until I looked them up and almost had a heart attack. Rosy red minnows and Catfish, as well. Guppies and platies are safe if you need to use live fishes, but cuts of trout with a calcium supplement work WONDERFULLY. If you buy guppies, make SURE they are guppies, not all stores know the difference between these and rosy reds. You can also use salmon or tilapia strips. (as a side note, these may be saltwater fish but saltwater fish DO NOT contain salt in them like so many seem to think they do) I like to use trout as my first choice, because the snakes seem to prefer that the most. You should also check out the recipe for complete homemade garter snake diet that I will be posting in a few minutes. It involved the use of raw fish, gelatin, and vitamins/calcium. You can also switch the snake over to rodents using scenting. A ribbon snake makes a great pet, just know that they are rather flighty, and do NOT take well to being handled for the most part. They are more of a "look at" snake. But they are indeed, fun to watch! A female can easily reach 4 feet in length and gives birth to a HUGE clutch of offspring.

You can TRY nightcrawlers on your ribbon, not all ribbons will take them. I do have one ribbon who loves to eat worms though. Tadpoles, salamanders and frogs are all relished food items of any thamnophis. If you ever have a problem feeder, any amphibian is an instant cure for that. Freeze any amphibian prey before you feed it to your snake to reduce the risk of parasites by a considerable amount.

if you have any additional questions regarding garter and ribbon snake husbandry, I am an open book and more than willing to help.

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I was hoping you'd chime in. Thank you! :bow::bow::bow: You are the queen of all things garter. lol.
I will take your suggestions and definitely look for your garter diet plan.

Sadly, the ribbon snake is looking less and less likely since they are no longer responding to my emails. :weirdface Oh well.
I've hatched a new plan to bring home a WC local species. Do you have any specific or different suggestions for a garter snake from the puget sound region of washington? I'm hoping to find myself my own Blubie :D but who knows what I'll actually end up with. I'll love it either way. :P

I may come to you with more Q's once I know what I've got. It will probably be a young one, I'm gonna look for the littlest garter I can find so I can watch it grow up.

Thanks again.

I beleive it is illegal to collect puget sound garters, but I MAY be wrong. You might be able to legally keep one. Check your local laws. I know it's illegal to collect and sell them for profit!

If you can't get a true puget, why not opt for a blue northwestern? Thamnophis ordinoes, the northwestern garter snake, varies HUGELY. Some are brown, some are red, some are green... yellow...and some are almost identical to pugets, in that they are black and bright blue. Sometimes blue nothwesterns get sold as pugets by people who don't know what they are looking at. It takes an expierienced eye to tell the difference!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aSnakeLovinBabe

I beleive it is illegal to collect puget sound garters, but I MAY be wrong. You might be able to legally keep one. Check your local laws. I know it's illegal to collect and sell them for profit!

If you can't get a true puget, why not opt for a blue northwestern? Thamnophis ordinoes, the northwestern garter snake, varies HUGELY. Some are brown, some are red, some are green... yellow...and some are almost identical to pugets, in that they are black and bright blue. Sometimes blue nothwesterns get sold as pugets by people who don't know what they are looking at. It takes an expierienced eye to tell the difference!

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We collected and kept them as pets all the time as kids so it didn't even occur to me to look for a law against it. :P I'll definitely look that up.

As for what I can get, if I can't collect one from the wild then I probably won't get one. :( Sad but true. I have never seen a garter in a pet store out here. Ever. Someday I might order one from somewhere but for now I shop local, 3 out of 4 of my snakes are rescues.

If you ever want to purchase a high quality garter, check out Scott Felzer at albinogartersnake.com

He is the king of garter snake propagation, my hero, a valuable friend and a GREAT guy to do business with.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aSnakeLovinBabe

If you ever want to purchase a high quality garter, check out Scott Felzer at albinogartersnake.com

He is the king of garter snake propagation, my hero, a valuable friend and a GREAT guy to do business with.

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Thanks, I'll keep him in mind.

I just made my final order for the year from him. $600 worth of garter snakes... WOO HOO.

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Originally Posted by aSnakeLovinBabe

I just made my final order for the year from him. $600 worth of garter snakes... WOO HOO.

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:O I wish I had $600 to spend on snakes! yay for you! :banana:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by truthsdeceit

:O I wish I had $600 to spend on snakes! yay for you! :banana:

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haha, I saved up really hard!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aSnakeLovinBabe

Hi there, being an expert in thamnophis husbandry, I must add this, do not feed silversides, a.k.a. smelt, to your snake. Sadly, silversides are also high in thiaminase and are not any better to use than goldfish. I was using these myself until I looked them up and almost had a heart attack. Rosy red minnows and Catfish, as well. Guppies and platies are safe if you need to use live fishes, but cuts of trout with a calcium supplement work WONDERFULLY. If you buy guppies, make SURE they are guppies, not all stores know the difference between these and rosy reds. You can also use salmon or tilapia strips. (as a side note, these may be saltwater fish but saltwater fish DO NOT contain salt in them like so many seem to think they do) I like to use trout as my first choice, because the snakes seem to prefer that the most. You should also check out the recipe for complete homemade garter snake diet that I will be posting in a few minutes. It involved the use of raw fish, gelatin, and vitamins/calcium. You can also switch the snake over to rodents using scenting. A ribbon snake makes a great pet, just know that they are rather flighty, and do NOT take well to being handled for the most part. They are more of a "look at" snake. But they are indeed, fun to watch! A female can easily reach 4 feet in length and gives birth to a HUGE clutch of offspring.

You can TRY nightcrawlers on your ribbon, not all ribbons will take them. I do have one ribbon who loves to eat worms though. Tadpoles, salamanders and frogs are all relished food items of any thamnophis. If you ever have a problem feeder, any amphibian is an instant cure for that. Freeze any amphibian prey before you feed it to your snake to reduce the risk of parasites by a considerable amount.

if you have any additional questions regarding garter and ribbon snake husbandry, I am an open book and more than willing to help.

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What species of "smelt" are you referring to?

Freshwater smelt (osmera mordax) contain thiaminase. I have not seen them sold frozen in tropical fish stores.

The saltwater variety that are sold frozen at tropical fish stores - and the pond (arctic freshwater) variety for that matter - do not. Tropical fish keepers have the same exact concerns regarding thiaminase as thamnophis keepers do. That's why frozen silversides are such a widely used staple.

Meant to add that the frozen silversides sold through fish stores are more often than not - menidia spp.. They are considered thiaminase free.

There is a common misconception that "silversides" refer to the rainbow smelt that were listed in the table that was linked to on Thamnophis Website. This is simply not true.

Sorry for multiple posts:

Silversides:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menidia

Smelt:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smelt

Not the same - none of the Menidia or true silversides are covered on the thiaminase table that all the forums inevitably link to.

It back on!! :banana:

It turns out my email were ending up in her spam folder for some reason :weirdface which is why the person with the ribbon snake wasn't responding.

Anyway, question about thiaminase. This snake is 2yrs old and I assume has been eating goldfish for it's whole life. I plan on switching it over to something safe but what kind of lasting effects will the pervious diet have on him?

well, aside from the thiaminase, goldfish are simply not very nutritious to begin with. You may notice some slight oddities to the way the snake moves, which may or may not worsen as it ages. The life span of this snake COULD be permanently shortened. It may not. No way to really tell. The snake may be permanently stunted. a lot of people don't realize just how BIG ribbon snakes actually get!! I would not worry about that, just focus on making your snake as happy and healthy as possible in his new home :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aSnakeLovinBabe

well, aside from the thiaminase, goldfish are simply not very nutritious to begin with. You may notice some slight oddities to the way the snake moves, which may or may not worsen as it ages. The life span of this snake COULD be permanently shortened. It may not. No way to really tell. The snake may be permanently stunted. a lot of people don't realize just how BIG ribbon snakes actually get!! I would not worry about that, just focus on making your snake as happy and healthy as possible in his new home :)

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I was only wondering what to expect. As I said I will be correcting his diet probably a mix of guppies, cuts of trout/salmon/tilapia, and some mice. Hopefully he will switch over to fish strips easily because guppies are not cheap at my lps.
And I will love him like the rest of my snakes. Hopefully he will have a long healthy life with me but if not I will take care of him to the best of my abilities.