Jungle Carpet Python Help

Hello, my name is Ben, and i'm new to this place. I also happen to be new to jcp's. I have one up and coming, which i'm a little concerned about. This is the oddest snake i've ever seen. The movements are strange, the behavior is strange. Let me explain....

I purchased this snake at the Reptile Exhibit in Columbia SC a week ago. It is a young snake, but has obviously grown quite a bit from hatchling size. It is roughly 2' long, about 1/2'' in diameter at the largest spot. The head is bigger than the body. Upon physical examination it seems to be in top shape. It is alert, flicks tongue regularly, and has explored the viv and made use of the water bowl and hide.

However, this snake has some quirks to it. Twice I have noted him tying himself in a knot, then immediately untying himself. I've witnessed him doing some strange up and down motion while hanging on a branch. It is almost as if he can't figure out how he's supposed to move. Now, after watching this unsettling occurrence, he straightened out, cruised over all the branches, and after an hour of exploring, made his way into the hide (approx. 1 hour before dawn).

As with all my new arrivals, i offered him a small meal upon arrival, which he ignored completely (not unusual). Since, I have moved him twice, from the viv to a starter tub, and back from the starter to the viv. When handling the snake rears into a striking position, but does not strike. The body inflates, and it becomes very rigid. After placing him in the enclosure, he does some tying/untying before finding a nice spot to run to.

My question is if this is normal CP behavior, or if i need to be looking for more serious problems. If needed, I'll try to take a vid and post it here for all to see. Here is a picture of the little guy, as is right now. Please be aware that he is housed in our snake room, which is 85f ambient, 62% rh as of this morning. Health requirements are met, so this issue (if it is an issue) is related to the health of the animal before I bought it.

Here he is! Sorry for the poor quality pictures... Any and all posts are very appreciated!

http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/t...cture068-1.jpg
http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/t...cture070-1.jpg

That does sound peculiar.

I don't know much about it, but it does sound a little bit like IBD? I'd get the snake to a vet ASAP and also post a video here...

Vid is uploading now. Pretty disturbing, he leveled out and headed to the hide shortly after I finished filming. I really hated bothering him in his hide...

Is it a Jag sibling?

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Originally Posted by SRX

Is it a Jag sibling?

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What is a Jag sibling?

YouTube - jungle carpet is sick

Well, it looks like either IBD symptoms or the neurological issues associated with the Jaguar trait/morph in carpet pythons. The Jag morph is an incomplete dominant trait that has a neurological disorder similar to the wobble linked trait in the spider mutation of ball pythons. It seems that recently a few of the non Jag siblings in a clutch are being reported to express the same disorder. Here are a couple of links...

http://www.moreliapythons.com/forums...ighlight=neuro

http://www.moreliapythons.com/forums...ighlight=neuro

Whoa man, that looks messed up. :(

I don't know much about the neurological problems, but I think jags have them. If he's a jag sib it could be that..?

It also looks like IBD... maybe Colin, Joshua, and David can chime in.

srx, it seems very similar to the neuro issue of the male in the video, second link. Thank you.

I do not mean to but in guys...

It seems your poor babe is doing the "star gaze".
In short your animal looks to be having tiny seisures or allready had one either or.
I have seen that kind of movement before in certain snakes,and it turned out to be associated with a kinda of parasite or disease in the brain that unfortuanly makes your animal act in this manner.
I am onley making estimated guess here from what i have seen from the video.
I would say that you should really take him or her to a reptile specialist as soon as you can.
Keep us posted.

I'm going to see if it feeds on sunday. if not, I'll take it to someone. Thanks for the replies!

That is a pretty disturbing video. Sorry about the issue you are having. I would take him to a vet asap and keep STRICT QT in case it could be IBD. Good luck to you and your JCP. Please keep us updated.

I agree with Waltah! with the QT.
You can never be too carefull and especialy when you are still trying to figure out what is going on with your animal.

Ben you are welcome i just hope everything works out for you.
Please keep us posted on your animal.

Keep us all posted on the outcome, Meantime I would try to make a vet appointment ASAP, and I wouldn't attempt to feed her until she sees the vet, just incase of regurg, or maybe getting more stressed then normal, I hope everything gets situated.

It's the strangest thing... I leave it alone, it acts normal. I mess with it, it does the freaky stuff. I agree that a vet appointment might be necessary. I do want to see his reaction to food though; He seems content in the hide, and comes out at night. He's been qt'd since I got him, as are the other new arrivals. If he shows a strong drive toward food I would certainly feel better about the situation. I think I agree on holding out on actually feeding though, good call.

Thanks again everyone!

Ben, odd question but what colour are this animals eyes? Dark or silver?

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Originally Posted by Ben Biscy

It's the strangest thing... I leave it alone, it acts normal. I mess with it, it does the freaky stuff. I agree that a vet appointment might be necessary. I do want to see his reaction to food though; He seems content in the hide, and comes out at night. He's been qt'd since I got him, as are the other new arrivals. If he shows a strong drive toward food I would certainly feel better about the situation. I think I agree on holding out on actually feeding though, good call.

Thanks again everyone!

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Ya that sound like the nuro disorder in Jags. it seems to be triggered by stress which explains why it is doing what it is doing. I would try to feed it if it were me, but that is your call. I guess I don't see the benifit of waiting if u take it to the vet they are going to ask if it has regurged and when you say no they are going to say well try to feed it and if it regurges bring it back right?

I am really betting it isn't IBD it could be a number of other things that have nothing to do with IBD what so ever. The animal could have been over heated, or exposed to chemicals such as mite spray. These will cause nuro type conditions. not that either of the other things are good but there is really no need to let anyone freak you out over IBD.

Chuck

quarantine that thing, cause unfortunately there is something terribly wrong with it. i'd actually put it down and get a necro on it.

as a side note.. i highly highly doubt it's IBD.

...the lack of motor control, muscle weakness, and head wobble point to neurological disorder. I agree with Colin and would take it to a vet have it checked out. But I think the animal is an extreme case may need to be put down. :(

If a Jag Sib, Some jag sibs (or normal jungles) exhibit little to no neuro disorders while some exhibit extreme cases and have to be put down. This is unfortunately a result of breeders pushing this particular morph. There are breeders out there still pushing for leucies knowing that there hasnt been one single leucy who has survived yet. (correct me if I am wrong).


Keep us updated! :salute:

Isn't it ironic how the most expensive specimen we picked up is the one with the problems? lol, go figure.

The little guy is sleeping now, coiled up in his hide. I can't see his eyes, and i don't want to stress him out anymore (minimal to no activity until feeding day, we'll see what happens). I think that the best bet here is if the animal does not eat in two weeks, and/or if the condition worsens I'll euthenize it myself. I don't have grand breeding plans, but i'm one to believe that bad genes SHOULD be eliminated. If he does feed, and just has a stress wobble, he should still make a very nice display animal (i don't handle my animals as often as most).

Also, I got this guy from the herp show in Columbia. These guys had VERY nice animals, I also bought two kenyans from them (which JUST shed are are doing GREAT!). I personally do not thing it's ibd either, as I did some reading and comparing, and the symptoms don't quite match.

Thanks again everyone!

Hey Ben,

I brought up the eyes because, as a number of people have mentioned, this does look a bit like an extremem case of the Jag neuro issue. It is hard to tell from the pics if your animal is a heavy patterend Jag though. The eyes help with an ID because Jags, for the most, have a silver/blue/pale eye compared to the dark eye of a normal. No need to bother the animal now to find out but next time it is out maybe take a gander.

i don't think it looks like a 'jag related neuro issue' personally... if i had to guess i'd say it's some sort of damage brought on by illness and/or dehydration or, because it's young, it may have just been born with some chromosomal damage.

i once had a carpet that got a mite infestation, followed by RI. the antibiotics were too much for him... the RI cleared up, but then he started acting exactly like what you're seeing here. he was fine until you touch him... then he'd do what yours does. it was sad because it was my first carpet... a true 'pet' snake.

pick up the last third of his body? is it limp and loose compared to his tightly constricted upper 2/3? if so, then you have your answer.

i'm not a vet, this is just my opinion... for what it's worth.

bottom line, i'd be getting my money back!

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Originally Posted by Colin Vestrand

i don't think it looks like a 'jag related neuro issue' personally...

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I was not saying it was necessarily a Jag neuro issue, just throwing out a possibility. I have never seen a true, worst case scenario train wreck Jag but from the few twitchy Jags I have seen and then extrapolating against the twitchy spiders I have seen vs. the train wreck spiders I have seen... This could be what a worst case Jag looks like... Maybe... But then again maybe not.

If we knew if this was/was not a Jag though we could potentially shelf that whole line of thought. If it is a normal (i.e possible sib) then the idea of it being the neuro issue would be astronomically small.

I think everything has already been said. If you do take it to a vet, which I recommend, tell him there is a chance of it having IBD. Even though, we don't think so, there is not a vet on board. If he has other reptiles in the facility it's not worth risking them.

You said he's in QT but in one of your first posts you stated that he's in your snake room? I would relocate him to another part of the house....just my .02...Ive seen this in an animal that was directly sprayed with mite spray in the past...back in the early 90's with something called "california spray"....Give him a nice luke warm soak...

Hope you get this cleared up bud, hoping its something related to stress. As Ive said, it appears to be stress related due to the fact that he is fine until bothered.

Good luck!
- Bd

The poor little guy!:(
Also, that sucks...hearing about the jag problems. I love jags! crap! :mad:

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Originally Posted by snakelady

The poor little guy!:(
Also, that sucks...hearing about the jag problems. I love jags! crap! :mad:

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don't let it scare you off... it's no worse than the problems you see with spiders. it's kind of an overstated issue in my opinion... they're still wonderful snakes and the vast majority don't have any recognizable differences to the average herper.

Call up the breeder.. however if it does eat and it is just a little crazy in the head I would still keep him.

a close friend of mine just showed me his CP's today and is expecting a litter. they are usualy really agressive and move and do all sorts of odd things. it seems to be normal. i say if it eats and generaly seems to be living fine DO NOT uthanize it. it is not at all uncommon for a CP to act a lil wonky and look to strike when its getting used to things. hell i almost got bit multiple times tonight and my breeder friend got bit twice showing me one of his ESTABLISHED females. CP are generally mean. its just the way they usualy are.

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Originally Posted by JeffJ

a close friend of mine just showed me his CP's today and is expecting a litter. they are usualy really agressive and move and do all sorts of odd things. it seems to be normal. i say if it eats and generaly seems to be living fine DO NOT uthanize it. it is not at all uncommon for a CP to act a lil wonky and look to strike when its getting used to things. hell i almost got bit multiple times tonight and my breeder friend got bit twice showing me one of his ESTABLISHED females. CP are generally mean. its just the way they usualy are.

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Did you actually watch the video? The behavior reminds me of a really bad spider "wobble". That is nothing like "the way they usually are". It's not about being mean.

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Originally Posted by waltah!

Did you actually watch the video? The behavior reminds me of a really bad spider "wobble". That is nothing like "the way they usually are". It's not about being mean.

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mmm no there is a vid?.... must be the empty post i have flash blocked as it browses quicker.

ill watch now.

EDIT i watched the vid. :( that is deaf not normal.

that is IBD or a genetic defect for sure. it is having issues with motor functions and head movement.


can it right its self from an upside down position? if u got it by its rear section can it point its head upright and climb up its own length to your hand?

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Originally Posted by JeffJ

mmm no there is a vid?.... must be the empty post i have flash blocked as it browses quicker.

ill watch now.

EDIT i watched the vid. :( that is deaf not normal.

that is IBD or a genetic defect for sure. it is having issues with motor functions and head movement.


can it right its self from an upside down position? if u got it by its rear section can it point its head upright and climb up its own length to your hand?

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It can, yes. When I disturb it, it does the weird stuff. When I walk away, but stay in the room, he stops freaking, then straightens out and acts normally. I'll try to take a normal action video tonight, if I can catch him out of the hide again. He's been taking a cruise around the cage just before dawn on a near daily basis...

I just popped in on him, and he's aparently done cruising, and aparently feeling safer. He's coiled in a corner, outside of the hide, and looking quite comfortable (no contorting or strange coiling). Tongue flickers when I aproach, showing alertness, and he's not startling like before (rigid body and strange movements). I HAVE NOT attempted to disturb him or his cage today, and won't again until food is offered. I am hoping I can catch him in the act of exploration, as it seems impossible that he could grip the branches the way he does if this were an extreme issue like ibd. On the first page there is a picture of him sleeping on a branch.

Hopefully (fingers and toes crossed) the issue is stress related. He had a LONG drive back from the show... I hope and pray he shows prey drive sunday!

It looks like I missed the move. He's back in the hide now... I'll try again this evening.

Idont know what to say.... is this just this snakes way of expressing stress? or is there something wrong. i would say keep its contact with the rest of your collection limited to none. and watch him for a week or 2. see if he snaps out of it.

I have never seen a healthy snake contort like that though. and ive seen a fair share. but then again every snake is different.

It only acts odd when stressed or handled (stressed). Today he's trolling, looks like he's hunting (there is a mouse in the room, ten feet away). Once again, i missed the trolling video, but i did get some non-decent pictures....

Here he is coiled outside of the hide, smiling for the camera...

http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/t...cture095-1.jpg
http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/t...Picture094.jpg

Like the post above, just keep him seperate from the rest of your collection(JUST IN CASE) and monitor him closely, offer him a meal like normal, I would just take him to a vet, to possibly get a professional opinion. I've seen some snakes act weird, but not like that. Try to find like a School Vet thing, like around here they have LSU vet which are on salary, so they are more concerned about the animals. Remember Clinics are businesses before they're clinics.

Neurological symptoms cover a whole host of ailments in snakes. They include:

- OPMV
- Meningitis
- Septicemia
- Various viral and bacterial infections
- Issues with metabolism/organ disfunction
- Exposure to extreme temperatures
- Previous head injuries
- Previous exposure to toxins
- Inherited genetic issues
..and IBD.

The fact that he can climb and perch and do other things that require coordination is fairly encouraging. The only advice I think is worth it's salt is to QT him and take him to a Vet.

i would also feed him a little smaller size prey item than what you would think he should receive. He might be more apt to eat for you the first time also

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Originally Posted by spiderfan

i would also feed him a little smaller size prey item than what you would think he should receive. He might be more apt to eat for you the first time also

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He's on the second fuzzy right now. He's been doing less crazy stuff, it seems stress is the trigger, probably nuero. But he's eating!!! Awright!

Now if I can just find the camera...